Jimmy Spencer sure busted RCR.
- Thread starter FenderBumper
- Start date
F
FlFlash
Guest
What do you expect them to talk about? ....Okay Paul your only 24 minutes behind the leader..lets get up on that wheel!
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I think they plan to put a TV in Pauls car next time so he can see the race. I'm sure that's why they had Paul check his volts.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
It's funny that you can see that from watching the race seeing as ESPN, er, ABC never showed a replay of the crash.
Do tin foil hats hurt?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
...but it was shown tonight. Funny how you don't think before you type.
Does thinking with your head in a vice hurt? lol
Darn, I should have asked if paying your tuition at the Jenna Fryer school of journalism hurt.
S
Soon
Guest
Well that is weird. In a replay ESPN showed earlier today, you could see menard had his wheel turned to the right as he was sliding off of 4. And to me, it looks like the back end comes around to cause the spin.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
He had his wheel turned right exiting turn 4? That's mighty weird.
S
Soon
Guest
I know. Counter steering into a spin is such a weird thing to do.
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Please link me to the video so I can see and decide for myself seeing as I *STILL* don't have cable (Verizon assholes).
Thanks.
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Found it on YouTube.
Someone's watched a little too much Cars "turn right to go left"
That looked like a classic car getting loose and spinning. But, because Harvick won, it's some grand conspiracy.
Someone's watched a little too much Cars "turn right to go left"
That looked like a classic car getting loose and spinning. But, because Harvick won, it's some grand conspiracy.
S
Soon
Guest
HoneyBadger
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Darn pesky facts.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Found it on YouTube.
Someone's watched a little too much Cars "turn right to go left"
That looked like a classic car getting loose and spinning. But, because Harvick won, it's some grand conspiracy.
Where's the link? I sure don't remember a car 'spinning'. You sure you got the right race?
And no, you don't turn right to exit a turn. You ease off your left turn and go straight. I thought everyone knew that. The only time you 'turn right' on a NASCAR oval is to catch the back end if it gets too far out.
I can see that someone runs into a lot of pedestrians and mailboxes finishing off their turns. "
RUN it's that crazy reporter behind the wheel".
Where's the link? I sure don't remember a car 'spinning'. You sure you got the right race?
And no, you don't turn right to exit a turn. You ease off your left turn and go straight. I thought everyone knew that. The only time you 'turn right' on a NASCAR oval is to catch the back end if it gets too far out.
I can see that someone runs into a lot of pedestrians and mailboxes finishing off their turns. "
And when you don't catch it it spins. See we got there yay
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
And when you don't catch it it spins. See we got there yay
What??
You need to go back to the beginning.
F
FlFlash
Guest
Here let us explain:
In physics, mass–energy equivalence is the concept that the mass of a body is a measure of its energy content. In this concept the total internal energy E of a body at rest is equal to the product of its rest mass m and a suitable conversion factor to transform from units of mass to units of energy. If the body is not stationary relative to the observer then account must be made for relativistic effects where m is given by the relativistic mass and E the relativistic energy of the body.
E=mc2 is where E is energy, m is mass, and c is the speed of light in a vacuum. The formula is dimensionally consistent and does not depend on any specific system of measurement units. For example, in many systems of natural units, the speed (scalar) of light is set equal to 1, and the formula becomes the identity E = m; hence the term "mass–energy equivalence".[2] The equation E = mc2 indicates that energy always exhibits relativistic mass in whatever form the energy takes.[3] Additionally, in systems which have no momentum (or are viewed in their center of momentum frame), then the equation E = mc2 also continues to be correct. Mass–energy equivalence in either of these conditions means that mass conservation becomes a restatement, or requirement, of the law of energy conservation, which is the first law of thermodynamics. Mass–energy equivalence does not imply that mass may be "converted" to energy, and indeed implies the opposite. Modern theory holds that neither mass nor energy may be destroyed, but only moved from one location to another. Mass and energy are both conserved separately in special relativity, and neither may be created nor destroyed. In physics, mass must be differentiated from matter, a more poorly defined idea in the physical sciences. Matter, when seen as certain types of particles, can be created and destroyed (as in particle annihilation or creation), but the precursors and products of such reactions retain both the original mass and energy, each of which remains unchanged (conserved) throughout the process. Letting the m in E = mc2 stand for a quantity of "matter" (rather than mass) may lead to incorrect results, depending on which of several varying definitions of "matter" are chosen.
Got it
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Oh, you kids are so silly.
I'm still waiting for mailbox Andy to post that youtube link with all his spinning evidence. The thumbnails are lame, because they don't show the position of Menards front wheels at the start of the slide. No, the second one doesn't. It's too early. I'm not even convinced it's the right lap. For those asking why RCR would use the public channel, all communications to the driver when he is on the track must be on the public channel.
I'm still waiting for mailbox Andy to post that youtube link with all his spinning evidence. The thumbnails are lame, because they don't show the position of Menards front wheels at the start of the slide. No, the second one doesn't. It's too early. I'm not even convinced it's the right lap. For those asking why RCR would use the public channel, all communications to the driver when he is on the track must be on the public channel.
VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
This is one loooong thread, so I'll add to it. No consipricay, but a little fishy. Team orders, nothing new. and it's been happening forever. But even so, the few snippets they put together (both on Speed and on that yahoo article) are just that, snippets, and possibly even taken out of context for effect. (nooooobody ever does that to try and get a story now, do they?)
But that being said, you can damn sure bet that teams have been doing stuff like this forever, especially in the big multi-car teams. A guy that has no chance for any real points that matter taking one for the team member that does.
And while Paul spinning on his own didn't give Harvick the win, it sure did help and was well played. I did put some pressure on the pits crew, and if they didn't come through it would be for naught anyway, and it gave him a hell of better chance at winning that he had prior to the spin.
But until it actually comes out one way or another, some of y'all just sound like Nancy "guilty until proven innocent" Grace.
But that being said, you can damn sure bet that teams have been doing stuff like this forever, especially in the big multi-car teams. A guy that has no chance for any real points that matter taking one for the team member that does.
And while Paul spinning on his own didn't give Harvick the win, it sure did help and was well played. I did put some pressure on the pits crew, and if they didn't come through it would be for naught anyway, and it gave him a hell of better chance at winning that he had prior to the spin.
But until it actually comes out one way or another, some of y'all just sound like Nancy "guilty until proven innocent" Grace.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I'll agree that there isn't enough hard evidence to prove guilt in a court of law. After announcing that NASCAR would investigate, Helton said finding evidence of wrong doing doesn't mean they would go back and do anything about it, but it would cause them to look at things more closely during a race.
I think I found the same video on youtube that the thumbs came from. The video I saw (Sportcenter?) were from the infield camera. This one is a much better angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsRYU9SLcyI
I'm using a touch pad, so I can start and stop close to frame by frame by quickly tapping and get a few frames per second. As Menard passes pit entrance (1:32-1:33), he isn't sliding but he clearly holds the car down 2 lanes as compared to Kez and Montoya. This is a strange thing to do if you think your right rear tire is down. The thumb' start at 1:34, so they are useless to me. It's also odd that Menards spotter says something like '..it's a blown right rear' before Menard does.
So Menard, riding on a R/R he says is going down, stays on the gas and holds the car way down until the back swings out and he starts to spin....but he didn't spin on purpose. He waited until the right time, then overdrove it until it spun.
He's innocent, I tell ya!
Just another suspicious incident that will live on and on.
I think I found the same video on youtube that the thumbs came from. The video I saw (Sportcenter?) were from the infield camera. This one is a much better angle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsRYU9SLcyI
I'm using a touch pad, so I can start and stop close to frame by frame by quickly tapping and get a few frames per second. As Menard passes pit entrance (1:32-1:33), he isn't sliding but he clearly holds the car down 2 lanes as compared to Kez and Montoya. This is a strange thing to do if you think your right rear tire is down. The thumb' start at 1:34, so they are useless to me. It's also odd that Menards spotter says something like '..it's a blown right rear' before Menard does.
So Menard, riding on a R/R he says is going down, stays on the gas and holds the car way down until the back swings out and he starts to spin....but he didn't spin on purpose. He waited until the right time, then overdrove it until it spun.
He's innocent, I tell ya!
Just another suspicious incident that will live on and on.
Tennessee Racing
Formerly Stewart Fan
FB, don't you think you are spending just a little too much time on this? lol
Maybe he was told to spin, maybe he wasn't...........doesn't affect any of us either way lol
Maybe he was told to spin, maybe he wasn't...........doesn't affect any of us either way lol
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Tennessee Racing
Formerly Stewart Fan
It doesn't lol
Just saying even if this stuff is true nothing will happen. I'm sure you have better things to do.
R
robbybee
Guest
But it does affect the outcome of a race and the seedings in the chase - if it's true.
Plus, one of us picked Gordon in Spike's pick-em game and one of us picked Harvick, so that's two of us who were (potentially) affected. I'm just sayin...
VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
But it does affect the outcome of a race and the seedings in the chase - if it's true.
Plus, one of us picked Gordon in Spike's pick-em game and one of us picked Harvick, so that's two of us who were (potentially) affected. I'm just sayin...
Because that's the big picture you see, Spike's racing game. And yes, it benefited me the most
R
robbybee
Guest
Because that's the big picture you see, Spike's racing game. And yes, it benefited me the most
Good for you, VD! Are you gonna send a thank-you tweet to Daddy's Money?
Who picked Gordon, I wonder?
Helton to look into Menard spin at Richmond
Childress emphatic that it wasn't intentional; Harvick said it's a non-story
By Joe Menzer, NASCAR.COM
September 16, 2011 4:22 PM, EDT
JOLIET, Ill. -- Mike Helton, president of NASCAR, said he will look into the possibility that something was amiss when Paul Menard brought out a late caution last Saturday night that helped Menard's teammate, Kevin Harvick, win the Wonderful Pistachios 400 at Richmond International Raceway.
But Richard Childress, who owns the cars that Menard and Harvick drive for Richard Childress Racing, released a statement Friday that was emphatic in denying that Menard spun his No. 27 Chevrolet intentionally to bring out a caution with 17 laps to go in last Saturday's race. Harvick was running second to Jeff Gordon at the time of the incident, but took the lead by beating Gordon off pit road following the caution and went on to win the race.
'Something fishy'
While Jeff Gordon wasn't formally complaining, he was a little concerned about Paul Menard's spin at Richmond that led to teammate Kevin Harvick's victory.
Gordon stirred the controversy by saying on Thursday that something "seemed a little fishy" about the team radio communications between Menard's team, the driver and RCR competition director Mike Dillon just before the spin, implying that perhaps Menard had been given team orders to do what he could to bring out the caution in an effort to let Harvick catch Gordon. Gordon went on to finish third in the race behind Harvick and second-place finisher Carl Edwards.
"There were no team orders despite all the speculation in the media," Childress said in a statement released by RCR Friday at Chicagoland Speedway. "I know Paul Menard well enough that he wouldn't have spun out on purpose even if he had been asked. We are here at Chicagoland Speedway to win the race and get a great start toward the championship."
Childress said no one from RCR would comment further on the matter, although Harvick did later suggest that perhaps Gordon brought it all up in the first place to try to gain some kind of psychological advantage heading into the opening event in the 10-race Chase.
But Harvick also insisted he's not biting, if that was Gordon's intention.
"He's just voicing an opinion. He's voicing his opinion and I have no problem with that," Harvick said. "There's nothing that needs to be riled up or [to] create a controversy. There's nothing there.
"It's something where people have opinions and I have an opinion, and that isn't anything against Jeff Gordon or anybody involved. He's just asking questions and that's what he should do. ... My job right now is to drive my car as fast as I can drive it, and to keep my head focused on the things they should be focused on -- and not to worry about anything else. I'm going to stay as focused as I can and not let any of the little things bother me."
Helton, meanwhile, spoke earlier in the day with reporters and indicated that it was possible, but probably not likely, that any action would result from further investigation into the Menard matter. He said NASCAR was still gathering all the audio and video information it required to complete a thorough investigation.
"It's a race procedure during a race to react to something like that. I think we have to wait and get our facts straight," Helton said. "But I still think the code of ethics between the drivers on the track is still really, really strong.
"In the rulebook, there is a broad authority given to NASCAR to react to things. I think we all know what would be detrimental to the sport. There is not a specific rule that addresses a team member or a relationship to a team that another driver may have, but there is authority by the league to react to whatever may happen. Those race procedures are unchangeable. I think the biggest thing is to make sure we get the facts right, and understand the environment so we can police it correctly going forward."
Asked to further explain the definition of a "race procedure," Helton added: "The guy causing a caution during an event is a race procedure, like a balls-and-strikes call. You can't go back on Monday and change an out call or a foul-ball call. That's the best way I can explain a race procedure in our world.
"That doesn't mean we can't [come back and levy a penalty]. If it falls under broader actions considered detrimental [to the sport] or something, doesn't mean we can't. But more than likely it's going to be considered a race procedure -- because, I think so far anyway, a lot of it's based on interpretation of what you hear."
Helton and several other drivers also explained that what appeared to happen on the RCR team radio just prior to the Menard caution was not that uncommon. Drivers are permitted during a race to speak with their spotter and crew chief only on an analog channel that also is available to fans and media -- but team members can communicate with each other on a different digital channel that is private.
About five laps prior to Menard's spin Saturday, Dillon had come on the analog channel and asked crew chief Slugger Labbe to "switch to Channel 2."
Five-time defending champion Jimmie Johnson said his team will use the digital channel when discussing technical adjustments to his race car during practices; or if the car is parked during some kind of race delay and the engine is shut off, making it legal to do so.
"Those digital radios cannot be in the race car," he said. "From there, I think there are communications during a race where crew chiefs can talk about race strategy and setups. But NASCAR wants fans to have as much as access as possible, and that's why the analog radios are the only ones allowed in the car."
Helton added that Gordon did not come to him after Saturday's race with any complaints. Since then, they've talked -- but not specifically about Saturday's incident, Helton said.
"We discussed the general topic of teammates and how that plays out on the race track," Helton said.
Helton also said he had yet to speak directly to Childress or Menard about the incident under review.
"We talk a lot every weekend about a lot of different things -- but this specific topic, I think we'll wait until we get all our facts right," Helton said. "First of all, I want to wait and hear the audio and not rely on the different levels of individual interpretations that I've heard. I guess you'd have to wait, and then if the interpretation is very blatant, it becomes a factor. Still, really, at this point we want to make sure we get access to all the facts."
Childress emphatic that it wasn't intentional; Harvick said it's a non-story
By Joe Menzer, NASCAR.COM
September 16, 2011 4:22 PM, EDT
JOLIET, Ill. -- Mike Helton, president of NASCAR, said he will look into the possibility that something was amiss when Paul Menard brought out a late caution last Saturday night that helped Menard's teammate, Kevin Harvick, win the Wonderful Pistachios 400 at Richmond International Raceway.
But Richard Childress, who owns the cars that Menard and Harvick drive for Richard Childress Racing, released a statement Friday that was emphatic in denying that Menard spun his No. 27 Chevrolet intentionally to bring out a caution with 17 laps to go in last Saturday's race. Harvick was running second to Jeff Gordon at the time of the incident, but took the lead by beating Gordon off pit road following the caution and went on to win the race.
'Something fishy'
While Jeff Gordon wasn't formally complaining, he was a little concerned about Paul Menard's spin at Richmond that led to teammate Kevin Harvick's victory.
Gordon stirred the controversy by saying on Thursday that something "seemed a little fishy" about the team radio communications between Menard's team, the driver and RCR competition director Mike Dillon just before the spin, implying that perhaps Menard had been given team orders to do what he could to bring out the caution in an effort to let Harvick catch Gordon. Gordon went on to finish third in the race behind Harvick and second-place finisher Carl Edwards.
"There were no team orders despite all the speculation in the media," Childress said in a statement released by RCR Friday at Chicagoland Speedway. "I know Paul Menard well enough that he wouldn't have spun out on purpose even if he had been asked. We are here at Chicagoland Speedway to win the race and get a great start toward the championship."
Childress said no one from RCR would comment further on the matter, although Harvick did later suggest that perhaps Gordon brought it all up in the first place to try to gain some kind of psychological advantage heading into the opening event in the 10-race Chase.
But Harvick also insisted he's not biting, if that was Gordon's intention.
"He's just voicing an opinion. He's voicing his opinion and I have no problem with that," Harvick said. "There's nothing that needs to be riled up or [to] create a controversy. There's nothing there.
"It's something where people have opinions and I have an opinion, and that isn't anything against Jeff Gordon or anybody involved. He's just asking questions and that's what he should do. ... My job right now is to drive my car as fast as I can drive it, and to keep my head focused on the things they should be focused on -- and not to worry about anything else. I'm going to stay as focused as I can and not let any of the little things bother me."
Helton, meanwhile, spoke earlier in the day with reporters and indicated that it was possible, but probably not likely, that any action would result from further investigation into the Menard matter. He said NASCAR was still gathering all the audio and video information it required to complete a thorough investigation.
"It's a race procedure during a race to react to something like that. I think we have to wait and get our facts straight," Helton said. "But I still think the code of ethics between the drivers on the track is still really, really strong.
"In the rulebook, there is a broad authority given to NASCAR to react to things. I think we all know what would be detrimental to the sport. There is not a specific rule that addresses a team member or a relationship to a team that another driver may have, but there is authority by the league to react to whatever may happen. Those race procedures are unchangeable. I think the biggest thing is to make sure we get the facts right, and understand the environment so we can police it correctly going forward."
Asked to further explain the definition of a "race procedure," Helton added: "The guy causing a caution during an event is a race procedure, like a balls-and-strikes call. You can't go back on Monday and change an out call or a foul-ball call. That's the best way I can explain a race procedure in our world.
"That doesn't mean we can't [come back and levy a penalty]. If it falls under broader actions considered detrimental [to the sport] or something, doesn't mean we can't. But more than likely it's going to be considered a race procedure -- because, I think so far anyway, a lot of it's based on interpretation of what you hear."
Helton and several other drivers also explained that what appeared to happen on the RCR team radio just prior to the Menard caution was not that uncommon. Drivers are permitted during a race to speak with their spotter and crew chief only on an analog channel that also is available to fans and media -- but team members can communicate with each other on a different digital channel that is private.
About five laps prior to Menard's spin Saturday, Dillon had come on the analog channel and asked crew chief Slugger Labbe to "switch to Channel 2."
Five-time defending champion Jimmie Johnson said his team will use the digital channel when discussing technical adjustments to his race car during practices; or if the car is parked during some kind of race delay and the engine is shut off, making it legal to do so.
"Those digital radios cannot be in the race car," he said. "From there, I think there are communications during a race where crew chiefs can talk about race strategy and setups. But NASCAR wants fans to have as much as access as possible, and that's why the analog radios are the only ones allowed in the car."
Helton added that Gordon did not come to him after Saturday's race with any complaints. Since then, they've talked -- but not specifically about Saturday's incident, Helton said.
"We discussed the general topic of teammates and how that plays out on the race track," Helton said.
Helton also said he had yet to speak directly to Childress or Menard about the incident under review.
"We talk a lot every weekend about a lot of different things -- but this specific topic, I think we'll wait until we get all our facts right," Helton said. "First of all, I want to wait and hear the audio and not rely on the different levels of individual interpretations that I've heard. I guess you'd have to wait, and then if the interpretation is very blatant, it becomes a factor. Still, really, at this point we want to make sure we get access to all the facts."
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Well if Harvick wins by more then 2 points it won't matter right?
G
Gordon_Fan24
Guest
Yep..that is exactly what this has been such a hot topic..Harvick won!
I don't think who won has anything to do with it...
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
Yep..that is exactly what this has been such a hot topic..Harvick won!
I don't think who won has anything to do with it...
Well if it was Gordon winning and say Mark Martin spinning out would you be making as big a deal out of it?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
It sure beats dressing up and playing school marm. lol
No, the win brings 3 bonus points, so that's a 6 point swing to Gordon. 3 points Kevin got, 3 points Gordon lost. 6 points.
Some people seem to think this is an attack on Harvick, but he had nothing to do with anything that happened, no matter what happened.
Blaze
The Midnight Rider
So as long as he has 6 more points then Gordon this won't even matter at the end of the year then good. He just has to have 6 more points then Gordon not win the championship by more then 6 points for it not to matter. If he beats Johnson by 4 then this wouldn't have any effect on it as long as he beats Gordon by at least 6. There.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Honestly, we'll never know for sure what happened and why. Odd radio traffic and a rookie spin. Some say it's all legit. Some don't buy it. It could be as simple as Dillon telling Menard to drive the wheels off of it and gain 10 spots and then letting nature take it's course.
In the end, the #29 team nailed the pit stop and Gordon got stuck outside the fastest car on the track, the 99.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Now we can move on with the chase.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Why would you get an idea that I have something I want to talk about? You'r the one that said "case closed". I havn't even said anything on this subject. You can trust that if had something I wanted to say, I wouldn't wait for someone to ask me. The main reason that I don't have anything to add to this subject is because I have no clue if there were team orders.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I didn't mean to offend you, it's just that there isn't much more chase stuff to talk about until Sundays race. Peace brother.
This will be talked about for a long time, and that's exactly what NASCAR likes.
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
You didn't offend me. Everythings cool. I guess I'm just getting excited to get the chase underway.
G
Gordon_Fan24
Guest
So am I the one making a big deal out of it?
I think if Gordon won and Martin spun and there was radio communication between Martin and Lance having this same conversation, then there would be the EXACT same controversy...so I don't see what you are getting at.