Kevin Harvick calls for eliminating Clash, combining with All-Star Race

StandOnIt said:
short season? so your comparing Indycar to Nascar? like really? lets go WoO next ok? maybe you can persuade them to go part time.
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I am not persuading anyone to do anything. I just asked how Indy Car's mechanics are not working at Burger King while having a shorter season than NASCAR.
 
Snappy D said:
I am not persuading anyone to do anything. I just asked how Indy Car's mechanics are not working at Burger King while having a shorter season than NASCAR.
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your question was answered by a long time ago when you thought Nascar teams would save money having a shorter season, where ya got off on Indycar nobody knows. I have no idea how IndyCar does business, But top Nascar teams work all year, hard in the off season getting ready for next year, many overtime hours. and that is the way it is and pretty much always has been.
 
StandOnIt said:
your question was answered by a long time ago when you thought Nascar teams would save money having a shorter season, where ya got off on Indycar nobody knows. I have no idea how IndyCar does business, But top Nascar teams work all year, hard in the off season getting ready for next year, many overtime hours. and that is the way it is and pretty much always has been.
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Ahh and there it is. That's all I needed to know. Carry on.
 
Snappy D said:
ah got it. Now if I can get past you making me sound I am bit mentally challenged. The Apple is looking at making 18 regular season games at the next labor negotiation, as well as putting teams in London, having games in Mexico City, having new stadiums in huge markets in LA and new market in Vegas, player salaries at an all time high ( which are known by the way, we dont even know the earnings any more for NASCAR drivers), they also have a 24/7/365 day netowrk that has games on Thursdays as well as having games Sunday Night, Monday Night and Saturday's. The Orange has reduced their events while it cant even sign a series sponsor ( who is the series sponsor after Monster leaves again?), attendance is down at almost every track, has trouble attracting full time sponsors and star drivers are retiring earlier. Thank you Next.
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I'm not going to take this thread down the deathbed path.
I like the season length and race lengths as they are.
The End.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I love this post, because it is exactly on point. Fans tear into Nascar for trying to provide more game 7 moments... "It isn't organic." And then fans tear into any race that doesn't have game 7 moments... "That sucked. Cancel that race forever."

Jim France is truly stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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Keep in mind that in terms of Nascar fans this place represents a size less than an atom. I don’t think this place can help or hurt anyone.
 
StandOnIt said:
ya know Lew, I really think most of them in the bus spend more time laughing at most of this stuff than anything.
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I can guarantee you that Jim France doesn’t know this place exists let alone monitor it. If for no other reason he wouldn’t have time
 
Old 97 said:
I'm not going to take this thread down the deathbed path.
I like the season length and race lengths as they are.
The End.
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and heres the plot twist for you since I dont think you read my previous posts....... as do I. I like 36 races, its cool 36 times a year my favorite racing series is on TV. It is awesome it really is, I like NASCAR as is, does it have its warts sure. As does everything else. I was just advocating "Hey why cant we look at maybe 28-30 races?" If everything stays as is in terms of how many races, no complaints from me.
 
Snappy D said:
ah got it. Now if I can get past you making me sound I am bit mentally challenged. The Apple is looking at making 18 regular season games at the next labor negotiation, as well as putting teams in London, having games in Mexico City, having new stadiums in huge markets in LA and new market in Vegas, player salaries at an all time high ( which are known by the way, we dont even know the earnings any more for NASCAR drivers), they also have a 24/7/365 day netowrk that has games on Thursdays as well as having games Sunday Night, Monday Night and Saturday's. The Orange has reduced their events while it cant even sign a series sponsor ( who is the series sponsor after Monster leaves again?), attendance is down at almost every track, has trouble attracting full time sponsors and star drivers are retiring earlier. Thank you Next.
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The apple has cities fighting for teams and probably has more viewers in a couple of weekends than Nascar does in a year.
 
congrat's man, why just the other day you were complaining about how much arguing there was, and now, look at ya you have made it to the big time, phantom mod censorship. Don't take it serious, I think they spin a wheel and your number came up.:D
 
StandOnIt said:
congrat's man, why just the other day you were complaining about how much arguing there was, and now, look at ya you have made it to the big time, phantom mod censorship. Don't take it serious, I think they spin a wheel and your number came up.:D
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The funniest part is..... it was another post about not arguing!! :lilangel:
 
Formerjackman said:
A shorter season makes more sense financially. logistically, and it makes every race that much more important and helps keep the excitement up. By the end of a 36 race season, I am READY for it over for awhile. The old show business adage was "Leave them wanting more". The longer the season goes on, the less interest there is among many fans, right at the time you want the MOST interest. It also gives the team employees more time to be home with their families. If you haven't lived the schedule many of these people live, you have no idea. The ARCA season is a cake walk compared to the NASCAR schedules, and that was hard enough on all of us. It's a standing joke among the rest of the sports world that the NASCAR season is 11 1/2 months long, and sadly that's not TOO far from the truth, when you realize that there are only TWO months that have no racing in them. Quite the contrast when you consider that the almighty NFL season is basically only four months long.
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I agree with a lot of that. I have watched NASCAR since 1975 when I saw my first race in person. Races weren't on TV and there was always build-up around the next race. It was exciting. The off-season is so short now, it's like there is no time to really miss it and then it starts back up. And everything is on TV. I can honestly say this is the first season since I have been watching that I am not excited about the start of the season.
 
@Snappy D is not a deathbedder who takes pleasure in NASCAR misfortune. I think we can debate the subject without making fun of each other. He's making a different argument regarding potential business benefits of a shortened season. I don't think his IndyCar comparison is well founded, as that series is much smaller and full of financial struggles. Very few are making good money there compared to NASCAR.

However, judging by recent comments from Steve Phelps, some consolidation is clearly being considered, so there must be a potential benefit in the eyes of some. When asked about the reports of a decreased schedule, his answer wasn't to say we're happy with where we're at. It was that they definitely won't be increasing the number of races, and that there is no specifc number on the table. When Harvick advocated getting rid of the Clash, he said it in the context of "when we do the new schedule."

I can see both sides of the argument. There are racing series I enjoy and follow that last for 9+ months, and there are ones I like that only last for 4-5. More isn't always better, but less is no guarantee of anything either.
 
The point I was trying to make, was simple. Some of these teams have over 300 full time employees, they get paid by races and sponsorship. No races, no sponsor money. working part time is nothing a team wants to aspire to. From a team aspect, I can't see any of them going happily along with a shorter season unless the money is there.
 
StandOnIt said:
This one here calls call the whole forum a bunch of boneheads for watching racing....
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OMG, at first I didn't believe you could be correct. So I did a search, and there is is...
IanMcVittie said:
My bonehead goes to anyone that watched the race. The 500 could actually could be worse as at least with the clash it is condensed so you don’t lose an entire afternoon.
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gnomesayin said:
@Snappy D is not a deathbedder who takes pleasure in NASCAR misfortune. I think we can debate the subject without making fun of each other. He's making a different argument regarding potential business benefits of a shortened season. I don't think his IndyCar comparison is well founded, as that series is much smaller and full of financial struggles. Very few are making good money there compared to NASCAR.

However, judging by recent comments from Steve Phelps, some consolidation is clearly being considered, so there must be a potential benefit in the eyes of some. When asked about the reports of a decreased schedule, his answer wasn't to say we're happy with where we're at. It was that they definitely won't be increasing the number of races, and that there is no specifc number on the table. When Harvick advocated getting rid of the Clash, he said it in the context of "when we do the new schedule."

I can see both sides of the argument. There are racing series I enjoy and follow that last for 9+ months, and there are ones I like that only last for 4-5. More isn't always better, but less is no guarantee of anything either.
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Thanks man appreciate it. I am not a death bedder by any stretch of the imagination and I feel bad in a way that came across wrongly, I was legit trying to understand how Indy Car mechanics can survive but I make the case for agreeing with taking a few races off the NASCAR schedule and all of a sudden the NASCAR shop guys are working Burger King. Thats not what I was trying to say in the least bit.
I will go off on a tangent and say the last few weeks or so the condescending posts have gone up by a staggering amount. God forbid you disagree with someone and they end up trying to make you look like an idiot. It's really not even enjoyable posting here anymore, for fear of someone trying to make you look dumb. The whole part that is amusing to me here is I dont post on here to change people's thinking and I never have. The above posts will illustrate how if you're not on the same thinking as others, they will try to discredit you while just taking bits and pieces of your post to do that. Its really infuriating. I am college educated, owned my own business since I was 27 and am pretty successful for being 34 years old so I will NOT put up with that kind of smug, condescending garbage I just put up with. Whether you have experience in big league racing, minor league or local racing you are no different than me and we put our pants on the same way. I dont get the the reasoning for being unruly with other posters. I think in my 3 years here I have treated everybody pretty well and expect the same in return. Sorry for hijacking the thread and I will let go of it at this point.
 
StandOnIt said:
The point I was trying to make, was simple. Some of these teams have over 300 full time employees, they get paid by races and sponsorship. No races, no sponsor money. working part time is nothing a team wants to aspire to. From a team aspect, I can't see any of them going happily along with a shorter season unless the money is there.
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Agreed, I don't think that is the benefit to a shorter season at all. Very few to none of crew members and team employees are yearning for less work.

Aside from all personal preferences, i think the TV networks have to be the biggest factor in any adjustments to the length of the season. If Fox still wants to pay to air 16 races and NBC wants to air 20, I find it hard to believe NASCAR would say no. I don't see anything else driving it in either direction.
 
gnomesayin said:
@Snappy D is not a deathbedder who takes pleasure in NASCAR misfortune. I think we can debate the subject without making fun of each other. He's making a different argument regarding potential business benefits of a shortened season. I don't think his IndyCar comparison is well founded, as that series is much smaller and full of financial struggles. Very few are making good money there compared to NASCAR.

However, judging by recent comments from Steve Phelps, some consolidation is clearly being considered, so there must be a potential benefit in the eyes of some. When asked about the reports of a decreased schedule, his answer wasn't to say we're happy with where we're at. It was that they definitely won't be increasing the number of races, and that there is no specifc number on the table. When Harvick advocated getting rid of the Clash, he said it in the context of "when we do the new schedule."

I can see both sides of the argument. There are racing series I enjoy and follow that last for 9+ months, and there are ones I like that only last for 4-5. More isn't always better, but less is no guarantee of anything either.
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And my point was the fact that if anyone feels that they are overworked in the garage or behind the wheel they can be replaced quite efficiently.
 
Snappy D said:
With all due respect You got snippy with me first. I wasnt going to stand for it especially when I you and I have never posted together before.
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could be dead wrong, but if these shorter schedule ideas were floated in the garages, it would be a good idea to keep the door out of there close by JMHO.
 
StandOnIt said:
And Nascar the season is too long. I think that pretty much depends on where you are coming from.

While the Memphis team is in Tennessee, Birmingham is actually a little closer to me. They play each other today, maybe that’ll help me decide who to root for.
The refs are letting them play, they don’t want to draw attention to themselves with those shirts they’ve got on.
The Atlanta Legends getting smoked at halftime. On pace for their worst loss in franchise history.
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I'm sorry, what sport are we talking about? I haven't heard of these teams.
 
Snappy D said:
Thanks man appreciate it. I am not a death bedder by any stretch of the imagination and I feel bad in a way that came across wrongly, I was legit trying to understand how Indy Car mechanics can survive but I make the case for agreeing with taking a few races off the NASCAR schedule and all of a sudden the NASCAR shop guys are working Burger King. Thats not what I was trying to say in the least bit.
I will go off on a tangent and say the last few weeks or so the condescending posts have gone up by a staggering amount. God forbid you disagree with someone and they end up trying to make you look like an idiot. It's really not even enjoyable posting here anymore, for fear of someone trying to make you look dumb. The whole part that is amusing to me here is I dont post on here to change people's thinking and I never have. The above posts will illustrate how if you're not on the same thinking as others, they will try to discredit you while just taking bits and pieces of your post to do that. Its really infuriating. I am college educated, owned my own business since I was 27 and am pretty successful for being 34 years old so I will NOT put up with that kind of smug, condescending garbage I just put up with. Whether you have experience in big league racing, minor league or local racing you are no different than me and we put our pants on the same way. I dont get the the reasoning for being unruly with other posters. I think in my 3 years here I have treated everybody pretty well and expect the same in return. Sorry for hijacking the thread and I will let go of it at this point.
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I have owned a few businesses, and one thing I learned, if you want to keep good people you can't be laying anybody off, in fact my experiences over the years have told me it was nonsense, if I didn't find a driver a load and quick, they would go somewhere else to whom would keep them busy and I had a truck sitting who I had to go thru I don't know how many applications to find another good one.
 
Snappy D said:
Thanks man appreciate it. I am not a death bedder by any stretch of the imagination and I feel bad in a way that came across wrongly, I was legit trying to understand how Indy Car mechanics can survive but I make the case for agreeing with taking a few races off the NASCAR schedule and all of a sudden the NASCAR shop guys are working Burger King. Thats not what I was trying to say in the least bit.
I will go off on a tangent and say the last few weeks or so the condescending posts have gone up by a staggering amount. God forbid you disagree with someone and they end up trying to make you look like an idiot. It's really not even enjoyable posting here anymore, for fear of someone trying to make you look dumb. The whole part that is amusing to me here is I dont post on here to change people's thinking and I never have. The above posts will illustrate how if you're not on the same thinking as others, they will try to discredit you while just taking bits and pieces of your post to do that. Its really infuriating. I am college educated, owned my own business since I was 27 and am pretty successful for being 34 years old so I will NOT put up with that kind of smug, condescending garbage I just put up with. Whether you have experience in big league racing, minor league or local racing you are no different than me and we put our pants on the same way. I dont get the the reasoning for being unruly with other posters. I think in my 3 years here I have treated everybody pretty well and expect the same in return. Sorry for hijacking the thread and I will let go of it at this point.
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You took the high road and did nothing wrong. You legitimately requested information and for your trouble you were insulted.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I assume that's during a red flag.
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Well, there are various ways to celebrate a stage win..;)

True story: Watching a Super Bowl in the late 1980's, my girl friend promised me a special treat after every Redskins touchdown. That was the year Doug Williams and the 'Skins scored five touchdowns during the first quarter..:captive:
 
StandOnIt said:
I have owned a few businesses, and one thing I learned, if you want to keep good people you can't be laying anybody off, in fact my experiences over the years have told me it was nonsense, if I didn't find a driver a load and quick, they would go somewhere else to whom would keep them busy and I had a truck sitting who I had to go thru I don't know how many applications to find another good one.
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:XXROFL:
 
LewTheShoe said:
Well, there are various ways to celebrate a stage win..;)

True story: a Super Bowl in the late 1980's, my girl friend promised me a special treat after every Redskins touchdown. That was the year Doug Williams and the 'Skins scored five touchdowns during the first quarter..:captive:
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:XXROFL::XXROFL:
 
Snappy D said:
Thanks man appreciate it. I am not a death bedder by any stretch of the imagination and I feel bad in a way that came across wrongly, I was legit trying to understand how Indy Car mechanics can survive but I make the case for agreeing with taking a few races off the NASCAR schedule and all of a sudden the NASCAR shop guys are working Burger King. Thats not what I was trying to say in the least bit.
I will go off on a tangent and say the last few weeks or so the condescending posts have gone up by a staggering amount. God forbid you disagree with someone and they end up trying to make you look like an idiot. It's really not even enjoyable posting here anymore, for fear of someone trying to make you look dumb. The whole part that is amusing to me here is I dont post on here to change people's thinking and I never have. The above posts will illustrate how if you're not on the same thinking as others, they will try to discredit you while just taking bits and pieces of your post to do that. Its really infuriating. I am college educated, owned my own business since I was 27 and am pretty successful for being 34 years old so I will NOT put up with that kind of smug, condescending garbage I just put up with. Whether you have experience in big league racing, minor league or local racing you are no different than me and we put our pants on the same way. I dont get the the reasoning for being unruly with other posters. I think in my 3 years here I have treated everybody pretty well and expect the same in return. Sorry for hijacking the thread and I will let go of it at this point.
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Please check post #60 where your name calling began.
I agree that reading the constant bickering is getting quite old, but you can't call someone's opinion reckless and ignorant without being called out on it. At least not mine.
It's a forum. These are opinions.
 
Old 97 said:
Please check post #60 where your name calling began.
I agree that reading the constant bickering is getting quite old, but you can't call someone's opinion reckless and ignorant without being called out on it. At least not mine.
It's a forum. These are opinions.
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Fair enough. I wasnt calling you reckless and ignorant , in my 3 years here I never called anyone a name or went personal and thats a fact. I just didnt agree with your opinion and the choice of words was irresponsible on my part.
 
I'll never attack somebody for what they do outside of here. There's no need to do that.
 
StandOnIt said:
I have owned a few businesses, and one thing I learned, if you want to keep good people you can't be laying anybody off, in fact my experiences over the years have told me it was nonsense, if I didn't find a driver a load and quick, they would go somewhere else to whom would keep them busy and I had a truck sitting who I had to go thru I don't know how many applications to find another good one.
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Fair enough. Agree with your reasoning 100% on business practices.
 
Snappy D said:
Fair enough. I wasnt calling you reckless and ignorant , in my 3 years here I never called anyone a name or went personal and thats a fact. I just didnt agree with your opinion and the choice of words was irresponsible on my part.
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:cheers:
 
DIDIT said:
Major League Baseball plays 162 games. Starts with Spring training in March and ends with the World Series in almost November. It would seem to me the NASCAR schedule would be a cakewalk compared to Major League Baseball and time away from families. It is a profession that someone has chosen to be in. They have a choice. Just like you shouldn't build a new house across from a race track then complain about the noise.
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And a LOT of people will tell you the baseball season is WAY too long too. Hell, in many places, they are starting with the snow flying, and they are ending with the snow flying. April and November are really crappy months for baseball in the majority of the country. Also consider that we got the 162 games in an era where they played a LOT of doubleheaders, which effectively made the season shorter. They could Easily knock a month off the schedule and actually improve the product. The same goes for the NBA and the NHL. The NBA might as well go to a 60 game season, because that's about all of stars are playing anyway. Also consider that a baseball player spends half the season sleeping in their own bed and the other half in a luxury hotel. many of the race crew spend 3-4 days a week out of their own bed, and they aren't staying in five star hotels either. They also don't spend three hours sitting around in a climate controlled locker room in their underwear and then go outside and play ball for a couple of hours. A day at the racetrack for a crewmember can be long and hard, and really deserve better than they get. Yes, these people made a choice to do this for a profession, but no that doesn't mean we should abuse the hell out them just so we can be amused for three hours on Sunday.
 
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