Kurt Busch appreciation thread

ChexOrWrex

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I don't understand why you are being so defensive about Bubba because no one has said anything negative or pointed any fingers at Bubba.
I don’t think you’re taking it the way intended, and thats my fault for probably not explaining it clearly.
 

Team Penske

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Denny is the owner. Would Bubba tell him that his equipment or engineering needs work? Would Denny believe that? Could Denny, as owner, believe that? I am not sure where the line is because I am neither an owner or driver, but I am thinking that there needs to be someone between Denny and Bubba to get the feedback both parties need.

No. Bubba is not providing sufficient feedback IMO.

No. Bubba is not showing that he is ready to win races.

I think that ideally Car #2 at 23IX would have been for an up and coming Toyota Driver Development product, but I that that the team needs some validation to ensure that whatever young gun eventually gets into that second car is stepping into something that is ready to win.
What you said reminds me of MTJ and then they added a second car with Jones. I don't think that works well and I also don't think Denny's advice etc. will help the team either. It would be like Harvick driving the 10 car for 25 laps then letting Almirola take over. You have to build a team where all on that team are all-in for success.
 

Truex_rox

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Who is that sly dog that has snuck back into playoff eligibility...
 

Revman

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Getting this thread warmed up. Let's go!
 

Hawaii808

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The 45 matters a lot to the Petty’s, especially Kyle. Do they have any control of that number?
 

Cholo

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Very true on the 45.
Figured he'd drive it because the other two numbers Jordan wore in his career were 9 (with Dream Team) and 45 when he came out of retirement.

Personally I hope he brings back the 97 for his last hoorah.
 

Revman

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Figured he'd drive it because the other two numbers Jordan wore in his career were 9 (with Dream Team) and 45 when he came out of retirement.

Personally I hope he brings back the 97 for his last hoorah.
That would be really cool. Kurt is a smart dude. I heard that everything is pretty much wrapped up, and an announcement is imminent.
 

Nitro Dude

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That would be really cool. Kurt is a smart dude. I heard that everything is pretty much wrapped up, and an announcement is imminent.
I haven't been this excited to see someone join an organization since Larson joined HMS. I don't care if it's Bubba or Kurt but I really hope to see a win next year for Jordan.
 

Revman

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I haven't been this excited to see someone join an organization since Larson joined HMS. I don't care if it's Bubba or Kurt but I really hope to see a win next year for Jordan.
I agree....I think it is the Kurt story in totality + A team that needs veteran input + The place Kurt is in his career + That Kurt is truly wanted there at this place in his career + Kurt has a legit shot to win = Win for 23XI/Win for Kurt/Win for Toyota. Everything is good about this thing....
 

ChexOrWrex

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Just a devil’s advocate question here.

What makes anyone think that Kurt has a shot to win with 23XI? They are nowhere near close to winning with Bubba. Is the talent gap that large between Kurt and Bubba and do we think that those top 10s that Bubba scored would have been top 5s or a win if Kurt was driving?

I think the clear answer is that Kurt has been competitive with every team he’s driven for, but every team outside of Furniture Row was already a winning organization, which 23XI isnt.
 

StandOnIt

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A "veteran" driver can't be any better than the organization behind him. So far without any experience in the series 23XI hasn't made any waves I have seen with personnel that are making a difference. Wallace is doing marginally better than he was with Petty, and many are hailing Kurt as the game changer. I don't see it, unless something changes in their support system.
 

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A "veteran" driver can't be any better than the organization behind him. So far without any experience in the series 23XI hasn't made any waves I have seen with personnel that are making a difference. Wallace is doing marginally better than he was with Petty, and many are hailing Kurt as the game changer. I don't see it, unless something changes in their support system.
The difference is with Jorden, Kurt will be getting his brothers cars. :sarcasm:
 

Revman

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Just a devil’s advocate question here.

What makes anyone think that Kurt has a shot to win with 23XI? They are nowhere near close to winning with Bubba. Is the talent gap that large between Kurt and Bubba and do we think that those top 10s that Bubba scored would have been top 5s or a win if Kurt was driving?

I think the clear answer is that Kurt has been competitive with every team he’s driven for, but every team outside of Furniture Row was already a winning organization, which 23XI isnt.

A "veteran" driver can't be any better than the organization behind him. So far without any experience in the series 23XI hasn't made any waves I have seen with personnel that are making a difference. Wallace is doing marginally better than he was with Petty, and many are hailing Kurt as the game changer. I don't see it, unless something changes in their support system.
Honestly, I think they are struggling for a baseline. Kurt is going to give them reliable feedback from a former champion--something Bubba isn't. At the same time, Kurt gets equipment that puts him in a place to win at this late stage in his career if his input is valid which it will likely be. I think that Kurt will become the straw that stirs the drink there, and if they still struggle after that, there are big issues.
 

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Honestly, I think they are struggling for a baseline. Kurt is going to give them reliable feedback from a former champion--
Duh? You mean Denny is that bad that his car is only good enough for 1st or 2nd place in points?? I think the only real problem with the 23XI is the driver. He is where he is because that is his level as a cup driver. Matty D is doing better with Fords also ran season.
 

Revman

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Duh? You mean Denny is that bad that his car is only good enough for 1st or 2nd place in points?? I think the only real problem with the 23XI is the driver. He is where he is because that is his level as a cup driver. Matty D is doing better with Fords also ran season.
Denny hasn't been in the 23. A slit in the wrap gains a performance advantage....Do you really think that Denny can give the same input Kurt could if Kurt is behind the wheel? Don't forget that Denny is kinda busy with his day job too. Bubba is Bubba--I don't know that he has hit his ceiling....I will see your "Duh?" and raise you a SMDH.
 

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Denny hasn't been in the 23. A slit in the wrap gains a performance advantage....Do you really think that Denny can give the same input Kurt could if Kurt is behind the wheel? Don't forget that Denny is kinda busy with his day job too. Bubba is Bubba--I don't know that he has hit his ceiling....I will see your "Duh?" and raise you a SMDH.
23 X1 gets there cars from the same shop as JGR and he same Toy motors
so other than some input by the Crew Chief and car chief Bubba is driving the same car as Denny.
 

Team Penske

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Just some input from 2 guys.

That’s all it takes.
Correct, how ever my point is Bubba is essentially driving the same equipment as Denny who has done well so far this year. I think in this case Denny is currently probably better than Kurt as to input.
 

28car

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Correct, how ever my point is Bubba is essentially driving the same equipment as Denny who has done well so far this year. I think in this case Denny is currently probably better than Kurt as to input.
is it just first year growing pains that are holding the 23 car back
 

Team Penske

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is it just first year growing pains that are holding the 23 car back
I don't think so. Has the 23 team improved much as the season moves forward?
Being a new team, we must allow for the CC/ Driver to jell and the pit crew should improve as well. There are A drivers, B drivers and seat fillers. IMO at best, Bubba is a B driver who is best on short tracks.
 

Revman

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IMO at best, Bubba is a B driver who is best on short tracks.
I think this is very fair at the moment. One more year should tell the tale, I would think. I feel like Kurt is a part of validating where the issue exists for that team.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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I think this is very fair at the moment. One more year should tell the tale, I would think. I feel like Kurt is a part of validating where the issue exists for that team.
His feedback will be immense for the team. If there's a problem on the 45 car, you can certainly say that it's not that space between the wheel and headrest. As much as everyone loves Bubba, 23XI couldn't honestly say that before. The real question is how will Bubba respond/step up when Kurt gets them a win or two (which I fully believe he will)
 

LewTheShoe

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Correct, how ever my point is Bubba is essentially driving the same equipment as Denny who has done well so far this year.
Why do you believe the 23 car is the same as the 11? When the 23XI team was announced, the stated intention was to use the same (obsolete) cars for the final year of Gen 6 that had been driven by Christopher Bell at Leavine Family Racing in 2020. There has been no announcement of a change in plans. 23XI plans to have equipment parity *next year* when the Next Gen car hits the track.

People want to assume that an "alliance agreement" between Joe Gibbs and 23XI means the cars are essentially equal, but I don't think we can assume that. Are JTG-D cars the same as Hendrick? No. Are Front Row cars the same as SHR? No. Is the Wood Bros. 21 the same as Penske? It *was* the same when Blaney was driving, but now I don't think any of us really knows now.
 

Revman

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His feedback will be immense for the team. If there's a problem on the 45 car, you can certainly say that it's not that space between the wheel and headrest. As much as everyone loves Bubba, 23XI couldn't honestly say that before. The real question is how will Bubba respond/step up when Kurt gets them a win or two (which I fully believe he will)
Great post. I love that Bubba put out on Twitter something to the effect of "....he brings something, I don't have...." Bubba's brand is about swagger. I thought this was a pretty authentic statement, and one that bodes well for the relationship. Bubba is a great man IMO. I have hope for a MTJ-esque run at some point.
 

Revman

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I think that is was so in the IROC series and the SRX series, but when the car is in the Nascar series it's a different story IMO
Fair point. Remember when Chevy sucked, and then they built a new to car a spec nobody else did, and they started winning everything? I knew you would come my way,
 

StandOnIt

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Fair point. Remember when Chevy sucked, and then they built a new to car a spec nobody else did, and they started winning everything? I knew you would come my way,
Yeah I remember three different front ends in 4 years before they got it right for the yotas and recently their crack research and development team used their best thinking and Bondo for even more front end innovations.
 

Revman

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Yeah I remember three different front ends in 4 years before they got it right for the yotas and recently their crack research and development team used their best thinking and Bondo for even more front end innovations.
You mean the new front ends consistent with the road cars....cuz....Stock. Car. You might have heard of it? ....and Bondo? That Chevy got ordinary without it this year. Your memory is slipping a bit. That's okay....that's why I am here. Let's talk more about the significance of the car Uncle @StandOnIt. <Sits cross legged and waits eagerly>
 
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