Kyle larson is robby gordon 2.0

lisa

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Can't believe the 42 only has 2 top 10's this year and is barely ahead of Ryan Newman in points.

I'm not worried about Larson, I just think the team needs to fix some things & they've had 2 bad weeks. Erik Jones's results are a bit more concerning.


Kurt went from 2nd to 11th on Sat. Kyle's team isn't the only one who sucks.
 

Turtle84

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Kurt went from 2nd to 11th on Sat. Kyle's team isn't the only one who sucks.

 

kyle18fan

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The one year Larson was a serious Championship threat in 2017, he blew two engines in three races in the playoffs and the race in between them, he crashed I believe due to a blown right front. His pit crew has let him down several times, he has killed himself with speeding penalties and overdriving the car. I've never seen a contending team so allergic to success.


Did Kyle contribute to the engine failures ? missed shifts etc.
 

Switchback

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yeah, after all is said pro or con all he or any of them for that matter only have to win a regular season race and the play off system ogre raises it's ugly head

This is correct. They can run like crap for 3/4 of the season, stumble into a win, stay out of trouble for a few and races, get hot at the end, and boom- champion.
Just like that, chip is a championship owner, Kyle has joined an exclusive club, and this discussion is muted. So I guess, no worries, they've got time.
 

Turtle84

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This is correct. They can run like crap for 3/4 of the season, stumble into a win, stay out of trouble for a few and races, get hot at the end, and boom- champion.
Just like that, chip is a championship owner, Kyle has joined an exclusive club, and this discussion is muted. So I guess, no worries, they've got time.

The positive spin NASCAR could put on this is amazing. "You've got time!"
 

hidesert cowboy

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I could poke a hole through your entire argument. Ready? I can poke holes back
Nears: Won the Coca Cola 600 in Hendrick’s 5 after going winless with Chip. mears won that race on fuel mileage, he got insanely lucky. he never sniffed a win at any other point driving an HMS car after showing promise in chips
Sorenson: Rushed to Cup after not doing a whole lot in Busch. Backmarker sorenson at times showed flashes, never ever ran as good after leaving chip
Montoya: Went to Indy Car with the Captain and won the Indy 500 as well as almost another Indy Car championship. montoya never drove for any other nascar teams we don't know if he would have been better.
JMac: Brickyard 400 and Daytona 500 winner with Chip but I’ll ask you what year did he win the Cup again? How’s Kurt doing in the 1 this year. jamac drove for roush when all their cars were winning races, every other driver won races for roush at that time but jmac. Jmac did win a couple races for roush but it was only on plate tracks. not winning on regular tracks speaks volumes to me. he had to return to chip's cars to save his career. roush cut him lose
So after all that...did any of those you mentioned have a winning history with Chip? Why would we care how Harvick or Busch would do in CGR cars? Why would they leave proven championship winning NASCAR organizations to go race for Chip who hasn’t even sniffed a Cup? How did Dario do in Cup? Sterling Marlin a 2 time Daytona 500 Champ was already a stud long before he drove for Chip. Understanding history maybe isn’t a strong suit. Marlin was never a title contender until the year he got hurt and jmac comes in and wins his first race filling in. don't try to tell me how awesome jmac was, those cars were what did the job. you are forgetting history here and not factoring in the circumstances for what happened.

 

AndyMarquisLive

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Montoya: Went to Indy Car with the Captain and won the Indy 500 as well as almost another Indy Car championship. montoya never drove for any other nascar teams we don't know if he would have been better.

Everyone forgets that Juan Pablo Montoya was a serious championship contender in 2009, driving for Ganassi, even though he didn't win a race.
 

Greg

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They were championship contenders right from the start with Sterling Marlin. Who else have they had? You won't win races with bums like David Stremme.

McMurray was better with Ganassi than Roush. Mears was better with Ganassi than Hendrick. The cars aren't the problem, and never were IMO. Now I'm not saying they are on the same level as Gibbs or Penske, but I think they are right behind.

That seems like a million years ago. Not relevant imo.
Larson isnt blameless, but Ganassi isnt as good as they were during Sterling Marlin error, either.
 

Snappy D

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I could poke a hole through your entire argument. Ready? I can poke holes back
Nears: Won the Coca Cola 600 in Hendrick’s 5 after going winless with Chip. mears won that race on fuel mileage, he got insanely lucky. he never sniffed a win at any other point driving an HMS car after showing promise in chips
Sorenson: Rushed to Cup after not doing a whole lot in Busch. Backmarker sorenson at times showed flashes, never ever ran as good after leaving chip
Montoya: Went to Indy Car with the Captain and won the Indy 500 as well as almost another Indy Car championship. montoya never drove for any other nascar teams we don't know if he would have been better.
JMac: Brickyard 400 and Daytona 500 winner with Chip but I’ll ask you what year did he win the Cup again? How’s Kurt doing in the 1 this year. jamac drove for roush when all their cars were winning races, every other driver won races for roush at that time but jmac. Jmac did win a couple races for roush but it was only on plate tracks. not winning on regular tracks speaks volumes to me. he had to return to chip's cars to save his career. roush cut him lose
So after all that...did any of those you mentioned have a winning history with Chip? Why would we care how Harvick or Busch would do in CGR cars? Why would they leave proven championship winning NASCAR organizations to go race for Chip who hasn’t even sniffed a Cup? How did Dario do in Cup? Sterling Marlin a 2 time Daytona 500 Champ was already a stud long before he drove for Chip. Understanding history maybe isn’t a strong suit. Marlin was never a title contender until the year he got hurt and jmac comes in and wins his first race filling in. don't try to tell me how awesome jmac was, those cars were what did the job. you are forgetting history here and not factoring in the circumstances for what happened.
Yea I’m sorry I stopped reading after you put Reed Sorenson and showed flashes in the same statement. Here are Reed’s numbers stone cold facts and data. I dunno what flashes you think he showed but we’re not looking at the same thing here. As far as Mears goes, he won a race with HMS. The record book shows he won and doesn’t care how he got it done. It also shows he won a race at HMS and zero at Ganassi. You can rank wins if you want, that’s not my thing.
https://www.racing-reference.info/driver/Reed_Sorenson
 

Revman

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Chip needs a fresh start. Not sure you want to be getting anything from Hendrick right now. Additionally, all of the Chevy boys are in their own corners trying to figure this out, so it's all up to Chip. Maybe needs a manufacturer that has its teams working together? Just a thought....and probably a good one. I just hope it happens before this sport loses Larson. I think that he is a future star, but I wonder if the patience is getting a bit thin.
 

hidesert cowboy

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Yea I’m sorry I stopped reading after you put Reed Sorenson and showed flashes in the same statement. Here are Reed’s numbers stone cold facts and data. I dunno what flashes you think he showed but we’re not looking at the same thing here. As far as Mears goes, he won a race with HMS. The record book shows he won and doesn’t care how he got it done. It also shows he won a race at HMS and zero at Ganassi. You can rank wins if you want, that’s not my thing.
https://www.racing-reference.info/driver/Reed_Sorenson
You are crazy if you think the way the win happens doesn’t matter David ruetimann won as well but where is he? Same sort of deal, lucking into wins matters when it comes time to renew drivers contracts. Mears got the ride at hms because he showed he could run good at times in chips cars. At the time hms was he best ride in nascar. He got the Hendrick seat because of how he ran in chips cars. He lost the hendrick seat because of how poorly, ie worse he ran in hendrick cars. Mears got lucky and won that race on fuel mileage pure and simple and yes that matters. It wasn’t Martin truex having bowyer and Logano breathing down his neck for 40 laps at a short track navigating lap cars and coming away with the win, see the difference
 

Snappy D

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You are crazy if you think the way the win happens doesn’t matter David ruetimann won as well but where is he? Same sort of deal, lucking into wins matters when it comes time to renew drivers contracts. Mears got the ride at hms because he showed he could run good at times in chips cars. At the time hms was he best ride in nascar. He got the Hendrick seat because of how he ran in chips cars. He lost the hendrick seat because of how poorly, ie worse he ran in hendrick cars. Mears got lucky and won that race on fuel mileage pure and simple and yes that matters. It wasn’t Martin truex having bowyer and Logano breathing down his neck for 40 laps at a short track navigating lap cars and coming away with the win, see the difference
Casey Mears wins at Hendrick: 1
Casey Mears wins at Ganassi: 0
You are not going to change my thinking and I wont change your's. There is no difference in my mind, a win is a win.
 

Turtle84

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I miss that Target car,the last year Larson ran it I think was the best scheme. Matte Red if memory serves me correct

That was a good looking scheme, hasn't been the same since going to the blue credit one. Just ain't right seeing Ganassi without Target.
 

Turtle84

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Also, what's worse than a joke that didn't go over the first time? ....a joke that doesn't go over the second time.

Target Font

 

hidesert cowboy

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Casey Mears wins at Hendrick: 1
Casey Mears wins at Ganassi: 0
You are not going to change my thinking and I wont change your's. There is no difference in my mind, a win is a win.
ok you must not have been watching back then. we disagree. you are saying casey mears was a better driver when he was at HMS than driving chips cars. no one watching the sport at that time would agree with you, I bet casey wouldn't even agree with you. he didn't out run ANYONE for that win. a win is not a win when you never contended the entire rest of the time driving there and everyone in front of you had to pit for fuel. casey lost his career because he left chips cars.
 

Snappy D

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Your personal shots are exhausting. I am not going to deal with a CGR homer, thats what you are. Plain numbers staring you in the face. I also have been watching since I was in 3rd grade. and No I dont care how long you've been watching. Also I am going to petition Charlotte Motor Speedway to take away Casey's win because he didnt outrun anyone in your eyes and should give the trophy back because it was a fuel mileage win.
 

2 Sweet

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I always liked Mears, plus I'm a huge Hendrick fanboy, and I think Mears ran much better at Ganassi. :idunno:

I was so happy to see him win that 600, but he didn't do anything else during his time at HMS. Other than that lone win, his numbers at Ganassi were stronger across the board.
 

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Y'all talk as if the Name HMS is on the door then the cars are the best. That is very far from the truth. For many years they ran the #25 car with various drivers and much of the time that car was just a pension check for Rick's father. HMS raced two cars, added a third car because they had sponsor money and the 4th car was as I said a pension check.
 

2 Sweet

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Y'all talk as if the Name HMS is on the door then the cars are the best. That is very far from the truth. For many years they ran the #25 car with various drivers and much of the time that car was just a pension check for Rick's father. HMS raced two cars, added a third car because they had sponsor money and the 4th car was as I said a pension check.

:rolleyes:

Your opinion aside, they had Mears in the 5 car his last year at HMS and he only had a few top 10's. Then Mark Martin moves into that car the next year and wins several races and nearly a championship. Same team, same CC, same funding.
 

Team Penske

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:rolleyes:

Your opinion aside, they had Mears in the 5 car his last year at HMS and he only had a few top 10's. Then Mark Martin moves into that car the next year and wins several races and nearly a championship. Same team, same CC, same funding.
Your assuming things. Have you seen a spreadsheet containing costs of parts? hours of labor charged to that car? I doubt it however you have to monitor everything and that even includes the costs for a pit crew. Pit crew costs are different on every car even within the same organization.
 

2 Sweet

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Your assuming things. Have you seen a spreadsheet containing costs of parts? hours of labor charged to that car? I doubt it however you have to monitor everything and that even includes the costs for a pit crew. Pit crew costs are different on every car even within the same organization.

So in 2009 they were running Gordon, Johnson, Martin, and Dale Jr. Which teams were there to race, and which team was the "pension check" scrub out there just to turn laps?
 

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Your assuming things. Have you seen a spreadsheet containing costs of parts? hours of labor charged to that car? I doubt it however you have to monitor everything and that even includes the costs for a pit crew. Pit crew costs are different on every car even within the same organization.

Missing the point. He's saying with the change in driver of the car made a huge difference. In Mark's case he did a great job in showing the 5 car was pretty good with the right shoe.

From the surface nothing really changed. All the teams outside of Jr were really competitive in 09-10. Jr picked his game up come 2011 and for the next four years all four HMS cars were competitive. This pension check concept is unbelievable honestly. I mean if you really want to go that direction, then talk about the 19 with Evernham. It was seen as a R&D car by Mayfield and Sadler.
 

Team Penske

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So in 2009 they were running Gordon, Johnson, Martin, and Dale Jr. Which teams were there to race, and which team was the "pension check" scrub out there just to turn laps?
Take a look at the calendar, #25 car was no longer running under POP, Nascar changed the ownership rules. Mark Martin was the biggest surprise in all of Nascar and Rick was forced to resign him. Junior was the top income driver of the whole bunch and brought in enough sponsor money to support 2 cars and still be profitable. The #48 car was the least profitable for Rick because he only owned 40% of the car.

I have more to say but the warden is coming. :D
 

Team Penske

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Missing the point. He's saying with the change in driver of the car made a huge difference. In Mark's case he did a great job in showing the 5 car was pretty good with the right shoe.

From the surface nothing really changed. All the teams outside of Jr were really competitive in 09-10. Jr picked his game up come 2011 and for the next four years all four HMS cars were competitive. This pension check concept is unbelievable honestly. I mean if you really want to go that direction, then talk about the 19 with Evernham. It was seen as a R&D car by Mayfield and Sadler.
Ooops you misread my post as well. the #25 car running under pops name was prior to this point in time.

Mayfield shot himself.
Sadler did the one thing that meant no owner would ever give him a cup ride. He was lucky to have been able to buy rides in Xfinity.
The Dodge money dried up for Evernham and his affair shut off sponsor money and cost him his family.
 

mack

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My curiosity is a little different on this topic. Chevy has two of the hottest young properties in the sport. Elliot and Larson. At what point do they abandon Chevrolet? Or can they? I'm not familiar with either ones contract. When you're that young and proven yourself to be a winner, how long will you stay put? To use Junior Johnsons vernacular, them shivvylays ain't no account. The Bowties really need to get it turned around. In a big hurry.
 

2 Sweet

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Take a look at the calendar, #25 car was no longer running under POP, Nascar changed the ownership rules. Mark Martin was the biggest surprise in all of Nascar and Rick was forced to resign him. Junior was the top income driver of the whole bunch and brought in enough sponsor money to support 2 cars and still be profitable. The #48 car was the least profitable for Rick because he only owned 40% of the car.

I have more to say but the warden is coming. :D

Ok, so was the 25 car the "pension check" team when they were running Schrader, Bodine, Waltrip? Just trying to clarify which years they were trying, and which years they weren't.....
 

hidesert cowboy

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you guys are worried way too much about who is listed as the owner of the car. They had rules about car ownership back then. this also effected how they were able to transfer points to other owners and other drivers. remember walt czarnicki owning a penske car? umm yeah. I bet he wonders where his pension check is more than pops hendrick. come on now. We don't actually know exactly what jeff gordons interest is in the 48 car, who really knows. just like we don't know the details of how much rick owns of JR motorsports. we are getting side tracked here. the bottom line is if you leave a CGR car, do so at your own peril. because there is a good chance you will be worse off. just like every other driver was once they left. This is something the announcers will never say, because they don't comment on things like that. The point about this is larson being the next robby gordon, lots of drivers showed promise in chips cars and everyone thought they deserved to be in a "real" car. So when they did leave for "real" cars they struggled. Larson does search around the track like its a dirt race which is entertaining to watch, but if you watch who wins the races its the guys who get their car working in a specific part of the race track. How often does jimmie johnson drive crazy high grooves in the track? what about tony stewart? kyle busch? the guys winning all the races aren't doing it by trying to discover dirt track grooves. I have heard larson is the type of driver that just shows up only when its time to practice and doesn't get into the technical aspects of the car. just my opinion. I think larson is hype and if he leaves he will be the next jmac.
 

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Ganassi supportive of Larson and Chevrolet despite struggles

“I’d like to tell you that it was his fault or mine. We have had our moments when it’s been the team’s fault or his but it’s a snowball thing – once some little thing happens it’s often times out of everyone’s control. It’s just unfortunate.

“He has my full support, he has the team’s full support, and he knows that there’s nothing that we the team want more than to put a weekend together. And it’ll be coming soon, I’m confident of that.”

About the Chevy's:
“I think it’s not only a rules issue, but some teams have had trouble adapting to the rules, adapting to some of the new ways NASCAR is doing things. And I think Chevrolet is caught up in a little bit of that.

“It’s so, so, so close out there, just the littlest thing… You don’t need to be off by much, and when you’re on, you don’t have to be on by much.

“Chevrolet certainly has some work to do. But they have my full support.”

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/ganassi-supportive-larson-chevrolet-slump/4372536/
 

Revman

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Did Kyle contribute to the engine failures ? missed shifts etc.

No. Chip got the engines off of the Hendrick Day Old Rack. See, you have to follow along. When a team supplies a satellite, and they become a threat, the owner of the supplier starts to sabotage the satellite. Actually, Rick has done a better job of screwing his satellite than Coach did. Prepare for Mr. H. to raise the prices on his engines, and then absorb Chip into his team somehow.
 

StandOnIt

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No. Chip got the engines off of the Hendrick Day Old Rack. See, you have to follow along. When a team supplies a satellite, and they become a threat, the owner of the supplier starts to sabotage the satellite. Actually, Rick has done a better job of screwing his satellite than Coach did. Prepare for Mr. H. to raise the prices on his engines, and then absorb Chip into his team somehow. That's the way this works I am told by the Unmoderated on this board.

He's family
 

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No. Chip got the engines off of the Hendrick Day Old Rack. See, you have to follow along. When a team supplies a satellite, and they become a threat, the owner of the supplier starts to sabotage the satellite. Actually, Rick has done a better job of screwing his satellite than Coach did. Prepare for Mr. H. to raise the prices on his engines, and then absorb Chip into his team somehow.

Yeah, that's how HMS operates. :rolleyes: That's why they have supplied so many engines to so many teams over the years. That's why two of the three biggest competitors they have are teams they helped get off the ground. That must also be why SHR won TWO championships using HMS equipment. if Chip thought the HMS engines were so bad, he could gone back to ECR like he used to. Don't forget that Rick set Felix Sabates up in NASCAR too, so that's ANOTHER team he is responsible for. Half the damn field has ties that go back to that evil bastard Mr. Rick Hendrick, including your precious JGR.
 

Snappy D

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No. Chip got the engines off of the Hendrick Day Old Rack. See, you have to follow along. When a team supplies a satellite, and they become a threat, the owner of the supplier starts to sabotage the satellite. Actually, Rick has done a better job of screwing his satellite than Coach did. Prepare for Mr. H. to raise the prices on his engines, and then absorb Chip into his team somehow.
That sounds like right out of the Preacher’s Playbook. Rick must have learned well.
 

hidesert cowboy

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Hendrick day old engines rack? Wow pretty out of touch with that comment. I think rick Hendrick is considered one of the most honorable guys in the entire sport To claim he is supplying engines that are less than what his teams get without them knowing and agreeing to it is insane. James Finch did use some experimental engine stuff but they agreed to it.
 
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