Larson's Run of Dirt Wins....

Blaze88 said:
Well I'm glad you see it that way, some here don't and think it would be comparable. Which is sad as it is hard to compare. I'm not a Kyle fan but what he does in a car is impressive, but I'm far far more impressed when he wins a Cup race. Not so much when he(or any driver for that matter) steps down a series or two or MORE(like going down to the K&N Series) and wins. Maybe if they didn't race for a Cup team and won, I be a bit more impressed. Like I said, Kyle is great but beating up on kids doesn't prove that.
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In terms of significance of wins, no question I value the Cup wins far more than the other series. My position on his participation in the lower series is a little different. He loves to win. No question. I think that his participation to keep sponsors involved in the company is overlooked. This is certainly a significant motivator for him in trucks as he strives to keep KBM alive, and I would also think a piece of his participation in Xfinity--Coach's sponsors are very important to him on many levels, and I know because the NOS people have told me so that Kyle is the only one they really, truly want in that car--whenever you see someone else, it is a concession to Coach. NOS was never a fan of the 10 race rule.
 
I cannot believe that so much time has been consumed arguing over something that's really quite trivial.
Everyone has their own opinion and that's the end of story.

Or, maybe, y'all are just bored and need some entertainment, so you create some. :D
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
It is all good with you, Rev, for many reasons not the least being you are always consistent. Whether we agree or not is not the point as you are an unabashed fan of TRD/Toyota, Kyle and make no bones about it. Also you don't try and pass yourself off as an authority on everything, are able to communicate clearly, are not a dreaded hall monitor/mini mod, don't hide behind anyone's skirt and it is appreciated.
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I appreciate that man. Thank you.
 
Revman said:
Can't speak for others, but not me. First, comparing drivers from different eras is stupid IMO. Second, because this sport involves a machine, it is categorically dumb to try to compare wins/success. Historically, if you got an advantage mechanically, good for you. Now, you are cheating, and it is taken away. Two dramatically different ways of looking at things.
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I see it much different as todays drivers should be compared to Petty. Now yes the times are different but there are still ways to compare modern day to old as ive stated ways already in this thread. I think its fun to compare the two and find ways in which they are similar and different. Petty is a measuring stick for drivers and drivers are always going to be compared to him. A guy like Kyle Busch racing in Trucks and Xfinity is compatible to Petty running a 200 mile race in small town USA to me. Two different times yes but definitely some of the same circumstances when it comes to the competition they face and their cars/trucks being better than the field.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I cannot believe that so much time has been consumed arguing over something that's really quite trivial.
Everyone has their own opinion and that's the end of story.

Or, maybe, y'all are just bored and need some entertainment, so you create some. :D
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I enjoy the conversation on here and yeah its kind of a slow day at work and I do need some entertainment. If we all just voiced our opinions and left it at that though there would be no discussion. Now I'm also one that enjoys a good argument and dont get frustrated when others dont see things my way.
 
Simple Fan said:
I thought we were having a good conversation. Sure we are not changing each others minds but I do understand your point a bit better.
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Which is why I was done, wasn't much more for either of us to say. We said our peace and was starting to really repeat everything we already said. would have been here all day doing that.
 
DUN24 said:
Racing in the feeder series of NASCAR as a reigning Cup champ, after winning 40 races, after 15 some-odd years is tasteless and obsurd. Imagine Lewis Hamilton's self-absorbed ass racing in F2 and F3. Racing in the snowball derby as the champ is cool, racing in homestead on Friday as the champ is lame. The World of Outlaws is not a feeder series. PA speedweek is not a cup series warm-up. Going home to race sprint cars and midgets for ****s and gigs is not the same as creating the same boring and predictable result you see most Saturday's. Pew pew pew pew :dual9mm: :D
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If Kyle Busch stepping down to Xfinity is so dastardly, why is it cool for him to step down three or four levels to late models? All the same arguments apply. If you don't like Lewis Hamilton in F2 for some philosophical reason, why not raise the same objections against Fernando Alonso racing at Indy. IndyCar drivers are mostly guys that fell off the F1 ladder. They have one chance per year at winning a prestigious trophy and a good paycheck. There are no philosophical differences. That's why I'm opposed to making new rules and trampling on the long tradition that racers can race where they wish.
 
LewTheShoe said:
If Kyle Busch stepping down to Xfinity is so dastardly, why is it cool for him to step down three or four levels to late models? All the same arguments apply. If you don't like Lewis Hamilton in F2 for some philosophical reason, why not raise the same objections against Fernando Alonso racing at Indy. IndyCar drivers are mostly guys that fell off the F1 ladder. They have one chance per year at winning a prestigious trophy and a good paycheck. There are no philosophical differences. That's why I'm opposed to making new rules and trampling on the long tradition that racers can race where they wish.
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The only late model race I remember him running recently is the Snowball Derby. It's cooler for several reasons.
-"Local level" racing, back to roots
-Extremely prestigious race, not the treatmyclot.com 300 the day before pay day
-This is more of an all-star race, not a race where the field has no where near the skill and resources as the other competitors, on the same track as the guy dominates on on Sundays.

As far as Fernando Alonso... are you serious? It's the freaking Indy 500. Also, Indycar is not a feeder series for Formula One. If he were to come race full time, it would definitely be a step back... but it still would be nothing like the guy racing F2 the day before his regularly scheduled GP.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Lew, please don't forget to clarify your post from Wednesday where you said "LMAO at Skoalbandit, who is so intent on smearing Stenhouse that he compares him to Martin Truex... the guy that's shown Nascar how it's done for three years consecutively driving Chevrolets and Toyotas. LOL."

I like a good debate as much as anyone, but to be good, it needs logic that explains certain indisputable facts. If you would please produce the quote where I allegedly smeared Stenhouse by comparing him to Truex I would be much obliged.
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That was a different thread, but I stand by my post. You attempted to denigrate Stenhouse by comparing him to a list of undistinguished, relatively mediocre drivers including Vickers. Then you implied likeness between Vickers and Truex. Ha ha ha. I'm sure Stenhouse would take that deal... leading the points standings, leading in laps led, a pile of trophies including the Southern 500, the World 600, and others. Real cheap shot stuff.
 
This thread may be a dumpster fire but I'll try to put some water on it.

The biggest problem IMO with cup guys in Xfinity is that it's a minor league feeder stock car series to the big show, trucks as well.

Seeing guys run on dirt which is a very different specialization is more cool than anything. I think some people forget how much big money is in WoO, these haulers are pretty incredible
 
LewTheShoe said:
If Kyle Busch stepping down to Xfinity is so dastardly, why is it cool for him to step down three or four levels to late models? All the same arguments apply. If you don't like Lewis Hamilton in F2 for some philosophical reason, why not raise the same objections against Fernando Alonso racing at Indy. IndyCar drivers are mostly guys that fell off the F1 ladder. They have one chance per year at winning a prestigious trophy and a good paycheck. There are no philosophical differences. That's why I'm opposed to making new rules and trampling on the long tradition that racers can race where they wish.
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I tend to agree with DUN24 here and I find the distinctions he is making to be mostly valid. There are several professional racing series with feeder / developmental divisions that prohibit the top level stars from participating. In some cases there are formalized rules, in other cases it is unthinkable (the Lewis Hamilton racing F2 example).

I can articulate the difference between national racing stars showing up as celebrities at grass roots events and Cup stars routinely dominating a very similar junior series. For one, the former is actually damn difficult because they are different disciplines, and Larson's current run is the exception. Whether it is Tony Stewart, Kasey Kahne, Clint Bowyer, etc., most of those guys have not been favorites when they show up at high level dirt races. Not even close.

However, I would frame the whole matter differently. It's not whether I personally loathe Cup stars dominating the lower series and am going to try to mold my personal feelings into a principled argument. It is up to NASCAR as a sanctioning body to determine what the purpose of the Xfinity series is, and what level of participation among active veteran Cup drivers is appropriate and best for that series and their ladder system. This is one area in which I will actually praise them and give credit. I think they have arrived at quite a reasonable compromise, and got it just about right all things considered with the current rules.
 
Once went to Cheney Stadium in Tacoma, WA to watch Felix Hernandez pitch in a rehab assignment. Sat next to a dude who was giddy. Why? He said, "I am paying $15 tonight to watch a Cy Young winner. If I go 25 miles up the road (to Seattle) next week, I will be paying $75 to watch him work." This captured my feelings about Cuppers--okay, specifically Kyle--running in the lower series. I (like the dude I was sitting next to at the ballgame) don't care about the competition. I am watching an absolute talent wheel it. I will take that opportunity every ******* time I get a chance. I would watch him test. The fact that this opportunity exists at a discounted rate is gravy.
 
Revman said:
Once went to Cheney Stadium in Tacoma, WA to watch Felix Hernandez pitch in a rehab assignment. Sat next to a dude who was giddy. Why? He said, "I am paying $15 tonight to watch a Cy Young winner. If I go 25 miles up the road (to Seattle) next week, I will be paying $75 to watch him work." This captured my feelings about Cuppers--okay, specifically Kyle--running in the lower series. I (like the dude I was sitting next to at the ballgame) don't care about the competition. I am watching an absolute talent wheel it. I will take that opportunity every ******* time I get a chance. I would watch him test. The fact that this opportunity exists at a discounted rate is gravy.
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I grew up going to dirt tracks. When the World of Outlaws was started and they came to my track with all the hoopla, I fell for it once. Bought the inflated ticket and watched the stars, Kinser, Wolfgang etc. Word was they came down with bigger engines, softer tires etc. I never went to another one and neither did many of the regular every weekend fans. It drew mostly casual fans and the curious who listened to the radio and newspaper advertisements. Kyle Damn Busch wore out his welcome years ago. they have cut him down some this year..hope he takes the hint. BTW the example above is B.S. IMO.
 
StandOnIt said:
I grew up going to dirt tracks. When the World of Outlaws was started and they came to my track with all the hoopla, I fell for it once. Bought the inflated ticket and watched the stars, Kinser, Wolfgang etc. Word was they came down with bigger engines, softer tires etc. I never went to another one and neither did many of the regular every weekend fans. It drew mostly casual fans and the curious who listened to the radio and newspaper advertisements. Kyle Damn Busch wore out his welcome years ago. they have cut him down some this year..hope he takes the hint. BTW the example above is B.S. IMO.
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Went to Cheney when Tacoma was an A's affiliate for an exhibition game between AAA Tacoma and Oakland. Sold freakin' out. Why? The game was going to be ****, right? Minor Leaguers v. Major Leaguers. If you view this stuff within the context of the almighty "great racing" probably crap, but if you view it as a chance to see the best of the best regardless of context, probably a great opportunity. Appreciate your O, but without any kind of explanation, just becomes B.S. IMO.
 
I should have said your thinking is flawed. Had season tickets for hockey. Trip A team. We went there to watch the regulars. No pros came down and played the whole season. I went to Nascar truck races when Biffle and older Busch were in their first years. Anybody who knew even a little about racing knew they were headed to the cup side..they didn't need a "teacher".
 
StandOnIt said:
I should have said your thinking is flawed. Had season tickets for hockey. Trip A team. We went there to watch the regulars. No pros came down and played the whole season. I went to Nascar truck races when Biffle and older Busch were in their first years. Anybody who knew even a little about racing knew they were headed to the cup side..they didn't need a "teacher".
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The "teaching" piece is a different piece of this. My point is that I would watch Kyle Damn Busch test....or run the Xfinity series, or, or, or....just like I might by a ticket to a AAA game featuring a Cy Young winner on a rehab assignment. Great baseball? No, but a 95 mile an hour fastball is a 95 mile an hour fastball just like Kyle Damn Busch catching it off of 4 is the same thing regardless of series.
 
Revman said:
The "teaching" piece is a different piece of this. My point is that I would watch Kyle Damn Busch test....or run the Xfinity series, or, or, or....just like I might by a ticket to a AAA game featuring a Cy Young winner on a rehab assignment. Great baseball? No, but a 95 mile an hour fastball is a 95 mile an hour fastball just like Kyle Damn Busch catching it off of 4 is the same thing regardless of series.
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the difference is competition
 
Larson has that same ability I saw in Stewart, hence why he's my new driver I root for.
 
From a skillset standpoint, guys with ditt experience are the best cup drivers.
 
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