Larson's Run of Dirt Wins....

2 Sweet said:
Cup drivers have been racing in BGN/Xfinity for decades. It was never really an issue since they rarely dominated. The BGN/X teams/drivers still had a chance because the playing field was more even.

Nowadays, the Cup teams running in X already have a significant advantage over the regular X teams. When you add Cup drivers into the mix, the difference is even more noticeable. I think this has worsened the quality of the product, and Nascar seems to agree which is why they introduced the limit.
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To your point...

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Greg said:
But nobody is going crazy or using that to say Harvick is great for whipping up stats in a triple A league type of event.
And I think Harvick ran the race because he felt like he had room for improvement, and needed the seat time.

I think a few other cuppers could benefit from polishing up their skills in the K&N, Trucks, or Xfinity races. I am not bothered that much when they run the feeder races.

Just not to interested in pumping the inflated stats, against low hanging fruit or inferior competition.
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I know why Kevin ran that race.

I agree with the rest of your post ... however:

http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/2006/B
 
aunty dive said:
In the motor home lot or back at the motel, it's all about who won last week. Nobody cares who finished 9th and whether or not Mr. 9's car was a Cup quality entry ... other than Elliott Sadler whimpering because he didn't get interviewed and Keselowski did ... but of course there are exceptions to every rule.

My point is that cream rises. If car owners who don't have Cup teams looked at this the way a lot of fans do, the series would collapse. They don't. They race and aspire to improve. That's what this is all about.
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A lot of sponsors probably care. Look at the back half of the field. Hell, look at any of the non-Cup teams in the X series. How many teams have little to no sponsorship? Who wants to sponsor a car that has no chance of ever finishing near the front? Doesn't it bother you that the actual Xfinity teams in the Xfinity series get destroyed every week? Ross Chastain's team is the best in the series. Really? Where do they finish every week?
 
ToyYoda said:
Probably the only reason it dropped off in 2011 is that was the first year Cup guys couldn't run for a Nationwide championship.
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It was ridiculous for a few years. There'd be a bunch of Cup guys running 20+ and even 30+ races. It's not nearly as bad now but still not that great, at least until the playoffs roll around. I mean, Penske still runs a car, sometimes two, every week just for Cup drivers to mess around in. Blaney never even ran half a season in Xfinity.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It was ridiculous for a few years. There'd be a bunch of Cup guys running 20+ and even 30+ races. It's not nearly as bad now but still not that great, at least until the playoffs roll around. I mean, Penske still runs a car, sometimes two, every week just for Cup drivers to mess around in. Blaney never even ran half a season in Xfinity.
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IIRC, in 2010 only one Nationwide race was won by a series regular (Justin Allgaier at Bristol I think). I know that Cup regulars won the BGN/NW championship every year between 2006-2010.
 
2 Sweet said:
Cup drivers have been racing in BGN/Xfinity for decades. It was never really an issue since they rarely dominated. The BGN/X teams/drivers still had a chance because the playing field was more even.

Nowadays, the Cup teams running in X already have a significant advantage over the regular X teams. When you add Cup drivers into the mix, the difference is even more noticeable. I think this has worsened the quality of the product, and Nascar seems to agree which is why they introduced the limit.
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It has been noted already that today NASCAR runs alot more companion races with Cup than previously. That leads itself to more Cup drivers racing as they are available. NASCAR created the problem and instituted a rule that doesn't really fix that problem. Allowing Cup drivers to race 10 Xfinity or 7 Truck races doesn't stop the Cup guys from dominating. As I've said if they are going to limit these drivers its better to just make 10 and 7 races where Cuo drivers are eligible therefore making a majority of the season stand alones and the races that do feature Cup drivers more important.

I also believe NASCAR should make a rule for Xfinity and Trucks where if a team is going to have Cup drivers they should have a regular for every one. So like Penske runs the 22 with all Cup drivers than they should be made to run a full time regular in the 12. Same with JGR, if they are running 2 cars for Cup drivers they should have 2 full time regulars.
 
2 Sweet said:
A lot of sponsors probably care. Look at the back half of the field. Hell, look at any of the non-Cup teams in the X series. How many teams have little to no sponsorship? Who wants to sponsor a car that has no chance of ever finishing near the front? Doesn't it bother you that the actual Xfinity teams in the Xfinity series get destroyed every week? Ross Chastain's team is the best in the series. Really? Where do they finish every week?
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You keep moving the goalposts.

All entries are Xfinity teams, irrespective of ownership. Sponsors tend to gravitate toward better performing cars ... that's reality at every level of this game. If teams with the most resources are forced out by rule, there won't be enough entries. If poorer teams are forced out by economics, there won't be enough entries.

What do you suggest as a fix?
 
Simple Fan said:
I also believe NASCAR should make a rule for Xfinity and Trucks where if a team is going to have Cup drivers they should have a regular for every one. So like Penske runs the 22 with all Cup drivers than they should be made to run a full time regular in the 12. Same with JGR, if they are running 2 cars for Cup drivers they should have 2 full time regulars.
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You seem unfamiliar with the way racing works and for that matter with the basic elements of the free enterprise system.
 
Greg said:
But nobody is going crazy or using that to say Harvick is great for whipping up stats in a triple A league type of event.
And I think Harvick ran the race because he felt like he had room for improvement, and needed the seat time.

I think a few other cuppers could benefit from polishing up their skills in the K&N, Trucks, or Xfinity races. I am not bothered that much when they run the feeder races.

Just not to interested in pumping the inflated stats, against low hanging fruit or inferior competition.
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Suarez and Blaney ran the Arca race besides Harvick too. With Nascar limiting practice, the newer drivers have very little opportunity to practice road racing. I would have thought more would have ran the race. Probably hard to find a ride.
 
aunty dive said:
What do you suggest as a fix?
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I have no idea how to fix it, but the first step is acknowledging that there is a problem. Did you see the chart posted above by FLracingfan? I'm not sure if you even think there's a problem or if you think it's better than ever or what, but I personally hope it gets back to a more level playing field with more parity, like it used to be. I don't know about you, but I enjoy seeing the smaller teams have a good run every now and then and get a little attention and the positives that come along with it. Remember when some dude named Matt Kenseth drove Robbie Reiser's unsponsored 17 car to a victory over Stewart's Gibbs car? That would never happen today.
 
Revman said:
Time to limit Cup drivers to 10 dirt races? Discuss.
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Nope..

Chip understands what keeps Kyle happy... And sharp. For what it's worth, Larson finished 11th tonight at Hagerstown. I think World of Outlaws at Attica is next on the dirt schedule for the 57
 
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2 Sweet said:
I have no idea how to fix it, but the first step is acknowledging that there is a problem. Did you see the chart posted above by FLracingfan? I'm not sure if you even think there's a problem or if you think it's better than ever or what, but I personally hope it gets back to a more level playing field with more parity, like it used to be. I don't know about you, but I enjoy seeing the smaller teams have a good run every now and then and get a little attention and the positives that come along with it. Remember when some dude named Matt Kenseth drove Robbie Reiser's unsponsored 17 car to a victory over Stewart's Gibbs car? That would never happen today.
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Force Goodyear to discontinue the practice of supplying Cup tire codes to B and C Main entrants at companion events.
 
aunty dive said:
You seem unfamiliar with the way racing works and for that matter with the basic elements of the free enterprise system.
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I'm all for a free enterprise system but NASCAR is not. If they are going to be that way I'd prefer they actually did something to solve the problem they have rather than make a rule that just hinders it a bit like the one they did with the limits on Cup drivers.
 
DUN24 said:
Lmao, I was going to give him sh!t for starting an instigatory thread and crying about responses and then I was like 'nah'
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Yeah, and if that was the case, I would be the first, right? Not so much. Some of the responses actually make sense. Some.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Attempting to link what Kyle Larson does to what Kyle Busch does is asinine and if I have to explain why you wouldn't understand anyway. Me thinks someone is butthurt because someone else hasn't had a win in a year.
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Dang, Skoal, that is the shortest inflammatory response I have seen from you in forever. No connection to real life? Priorities? Nothing? This is all I get? You disappoint me.

BTW--Me thinks that I am enjoying this year tremendously. Need my guy to run well and my TRD Toyotas to be up to par. All good on both fronts. I love winning, but my love for this sport doesn't hinge on it. If it did, I would be as bitter as 90% of this board.
 
Great oost as I agree and disagree.

2 Sweet said:
I have no idea how to fix it, but the first step is acknowledging that there is a problem.
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I have my opinion on how to fix it as I've stated a few times on this board and in this thread. I think NASCAR has acknowledged the problem with limiting the Cup drivers but that hasn't really solved it in my opinion.


2 Sweet said:
I'm not sure if you even think there's a problem or if you think it's better than ever or what, but I personally hope it gets back to a more level playing field with more parity, like it used to be. I don't know about you, but I enjoy seeing the smaller teams have a good run every now and then and get a little attention and the positives that come along with it.
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@aunty dive is hard guy to figure out and I find my self agreeing and disagreeing with him alot. Great poster in ny opinion.

I also like to see those smaller teams succeed and thats why I think there should be more stand alone races for Xfinity and Trucks. I also enjoy seeing those smaller teams compete with the best and think they should have a set number of races that involve Cup drivers. Giving the lower series their own identity while also allowing teams to prepare for Cup driver races.

2 Sweet said:
Remember when some dude named Matt Kenseth drove Robbie Reiser's unsponsored 17 car to a victory over Stewart's Gibbs car? That would never happen today.
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Well today's NASCAR is all about sponsors and if you dont have them you dont have a ride usually. See Darrell Wallace Jr in the Xfinity Series. You still have young guys beating Cup drivers though and most the young Cup drivers did so in Xfinity and Trucks.
 
Its even worse now with the points format NASCAR has introduced. Winning races and stages means entering the playoffs and receiving playoff points... and cup drivers have won 75% of the races this season.
 
2 Sweet said:
Not sure what point you're trying to make. There were a few years where Mark Martin won half the races the entered, but click on any race you want and look at where the Cup guys finished. They weren't always at the top. The Cup guys got beat by BGN guys throughout the field on a regular basis.
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If your going to discuss Cup drivers of old also take into fact that they drove Xfinity series cars from Xfinity series owners. Many of the Xfinity series cars today are cup teams ( they drove away all the single car teams) with a shop already paid for by cup sponsors. THERE IS NO COMPARISON.
 
Revman said:
Dang, Skoal, that is the shortest inflammatory response I have seen from you in forever. No connection to real life? Priorities? Nothing? This is all I get? You disappoint me.

BTW--Me thinks that I am enjoying this year tremendously. Need my guy to run well and my TRD Toyotas to be up to par. All good on both fronts. I love winning, but my love for this sport doesn't hinge on it. If it did, I would be as bitter as 90% of this board.
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I know...it is a joy to the household thing........:D
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Hate to break it to you but they are not your TRD Toyotas and you dont win anything :nyanya:
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You and all of your "likers" wouldn't get it if I explained it to you. You are operating on many assumptions as you belittle my connection to my manufacturer. It makes me smile. The language won't change, and neither will the feeling. It's a Toyota thing.
 
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Back to topic. Stressing that I don't care what series any driver drives in.....Larson is keeping a tally of his wins--not the earnings for the tracks he is racing at just like any other racer. He likes to race. Period. All of this blab about different disciplines....Last time I checked, Cup was different from Xfinity which is different from Trucks--different disciplines. You can stretch this any way you want it, but really, it's pretty much the same thing as a Cupper racing a lower series--and I am fine with that. Some of you work really hard to make very little sense.
 
Revman said:
You sound jealous. I wish similar joy for you and all of your mountain toppers.
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IDK what I would have to be jealous of? Do you mean being jealous because Kyle Busch brings joy to your household and he doesn't mine?
 
Revman said:
Back to topic. Stressing that I don't care what series any driver drives in.....Larson is keeping a tally of his wins--not the earnings for the tracks he is racing at just like any other racer. He likes to race. Period. All of this blab about different disciplines....Last time I checked, Cup was different from Xfinity which is different from Trucks--different disciplines. You can stretch this any way you want it, but really, it's pretty much the same thing as a Cupper racing a lower series--and I am fine with that. Some of you work really hard to make very little sense.
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Revman said:
You and all of your "likers" wouldn't get it if I explained it to you. You are operating on many assumptions as you belittle my connection to my manufacturer. It makes me smile. The language won't change, and neither will the feeling. It's a Toyota thing.
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You receive "likes" for making logical sense (for the most part).
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IDK what I would have to be jealous of? Do you mean being jealous because Kyle Busch brings joy to your household and he doesn't mine?
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Dunno man. Just sounds that way. Hope you are happy.
 
Revman said:
Dunno man. Just sounds that way. Hope you are happy.
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I am way better than happy as I am content. Happiness is predicated on there being things that make you happy while contentment is not influenced by external forces. If you live long enough you may come to understand what I am saying but sadly most don't.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
You receive "likes" for making logical sense (for the most part).
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IDK what is up with Rev and the "Me, we and us" stuff when it comes to Toyota and TRD as to me saying those things means you have some sort of ownership or influence which he clearly doesn't. I really like Nikon cameras and lenses but when discussing such things with others I never refer to Nikon as "me, we and us" as I have no standing with them.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I am way better than happy as I am content. Happiness is predicated on there being things that make you happy while contentment is not influenced by external forces. If you live long enough you may come to understand what I am saying but sadly most don't.
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Skoalbandit33 said:
IDK what is up with Rev and the "Me, we and us" stuff when it comes to Toyota and TRD as to me saying those things means you have some sort of ownership or influence which he clearly doesn't. I really like Nikon cameras and lenses but when discussing such things with others I never refer to Nikon as "me, we and us" as I have no standing with them.
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The thing that is intrigues me about your posts is that you operate within the realm of your own operational definitions. In this sense, you are never wrong, and free from any kind of disagreement. What if "we" meant something other than "influence" or "ownership?" What if "influence" and "ownership" had a broader meaning than your own construct? What if an organizational culture encouraged it supporters to be part of "us?" There are so many more possibilities than the ones you suggest, yet, in your posts, you leave none of that open for discussion. Interesting. I like somebody who feels they have it all figured out, but I wonder if he/she might be missing something by being convinced that they do.

You read way too much into a message board. You don't know the other 99% that exists yet you judge as if you do (you are certainly not alone here--I have some fabulous DM's that I could share with you). I will give you this....Within the framework that is your own philosophical process, you have it figured out. If that leads to contentment, I am happy for you....or, content for you because I don't want to be bound by external forces.

As always, I enjoy reading your posts even if I disagree with some of them.

BTW--I hope WE kick ass this weekend. It would be the external force that would bring immense happiness to my very content household. Enjoy.
 
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