Matt Kenseth

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I suspect Matt wanted a longer term deal than JGR wanted to sign given sponsorship. Plus he wanted to have more input into how the team was run. Roush has offered at least a part of that. A future. Assuming the ship don't sink.
 

Mopardh9

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I suspect Matt wanted a longer term deal than JGR wanted to sign given sponsorship. Plus he wanted to have more input into how the team was run. Roush has offered at least a part of that. A future. Assuming the ship don't sink.
That's a big if.
 

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We will find out this week what kind of performance implications that Kenseth will have. Last week at Kansas, Roush set up the car based on Trevor driving it and Kenseh had what limited time to evaluate and make tweaks. Unfortunately it only picked up half a second or so.

This week he gets an opportunity to take what he had at Kansas and make wholesale changes. Do not expect miracles, but hopefully a vast improvement as far as chassis response. Maybe a second or so...mid tier at best. The rest will have to come from body, undercarriage, and aero dynamics. This might be Roush's Achilles heal. They seem to have the superspeedway aero ok...but that includes less dynamics than other tracks that need aero to be entwined with ingress and egress of vehicle dynamics as it relates to transfer of energy.
 

Charlie Spencer

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We will find out this week what kind of performance implications that Kenseth will have. Last week at Kansas, Roush set up the car based on Trevor driving it and Kenseh had what limited time to evaluate and make tweaks. Unfortunately it only picked up half a second or so.

This week he gets an opportunity to take what he had at Kansas and make wholesale changes. Do not expect miracles, but hopefully a vast improvement as far as chassis response. Maybe a second or so...mid tier at best. The rest will have to come from body, undercarriage, and aero dynamics. This might be Roush's Achilles heal. They seem to have the superspeedway aero ok...but that includes less dynamics than other tracks that need aero to be entwined with ingress and egress of vehicle dynamics as it relates to transfer of energy.
I doubt they'll learn much at the All Star that will be useful the rest of the year, what with the one-off configuration.
 

aunty dive

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We will find out this week what kind of performance implications that Kenseth will have. Last week at Kansas, Roush set up the car based on Trevor driving it and Kenseh had what limited time to evaluate and make tweaks. Unfortunately it only picked up half a second or so.

This week he gets an opportunity to take what he had at Kansas and make wholesale changes. Do not expect miracles, but hopefully a vast improvement as far as chassis response. Maybe a second or so...mid tier at best. The rest will have to come from body, undercarriage, and aero dynamics. This might be Roush's Achilles heal. They seem to have the superspeedway aero ok...but that includes less dynamics than other tracks that need aero to be entwined with ingress and egress of vehicle dynamics as it relates to transfer of energy.
In simpler terms, "handling" is less important at Talladega and Daytona. Is that your point?
 

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In simpler terms, "handling" is less important at Talladega and Daytona. Is that your point?
You could use that term in a generalization, but I tend to be more detail orientated.

Handling is very important at the super speedways as it is critical to be able to hold the foot feed on the floor all the way around. Horsepower is critical too...fifteen horsepower more on a vehicle with a similar DC can yield a mile per hour difference. And, aero plays a significant factor when in traffic and how your car acts within someone else's slipstream. But...the car is not accelerating and decelerating while trying to change directions while in the turns...so, yes, that factor is less important. And therefore....aero that affects those less important handling characteristics are not the focus. Which I think that the HMS, Roush, and a few others are behind on.
 

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Downforce compresses springs. There's no way to disconnect aero effects from kinematics.
 

OldTimer

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Downforce compresses springs. There's no way to disconnect aero effects from kinematics.
Yes...downforce does compress springs, that does not necessarily equate to where you need the downforce or which springs you need to compress the most. On a super speedway, you are trying to have as little downforce as possible while still maintaining some sort of stability as downforce equates to drag. Drag is resistance...hence the least amount of drag and downforce go hand in hand into making an object cut through the air. Since traction for forward bite is not a priority on a superspeedway, you would think that getting less downforce is faster...all other things being equal. On any other track where aerodynamics plays a part, you need downforce in the front as you enter a corner and transition to downforce in the rear as you come out of the corner...while on the straights you want as little drag as possible.

Once you accomplish that, you can tailor the aero to assist in loading the chassis to maximize those transitions. For example, you want to load the left rear to drive off the corner, while loading the right front to transition to the straightaway.

Just the opposite of your sprint car. You do not drive a stock car off the right rear on pavement.
 

aunty dive

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Yes...downforce does compress springs, that does not necessarily equate to where you need the downforce or which springs you need to compress the most.

I haven't suggested that it did. My point is simply that aero forces and kinematics are intertwined in a very complicated way.

Hitting on the combination correctly is an elusive target and it's easy to miss.
 

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Didn't Roush revamp their engineering staff a couple of years ago?

Something just isn't right.

If you replace minimum wage workers with other minimum wage workers you can't really expect big changes. SHR went out and got Childers who proved he could run top ten every week with up to 3 different drivers. You put that guy in charge of a car driven by a top driver, you have success.
 

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I haven't suggested that it did. My point is simply that aero forces and kinematics are intertwined in a very complicated way.

Hitting on the combination correctly is an elusive target and it's easy to miss.
The springs have very little influence on handling OTHER than to position the body for best aero benefit. It's a weird world we be in. 300 lb spring in front 1500 in rear. These cars actually DO drive off RR. Just like a sprint car.
 

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It sounded like Matt felt there was something fundamentally wrong with the car this past week ... Any chance that can get rectified in short order? I'm kind of thinking the issues are not just easy fixes and it's going to be difficult to watch that 6 car perform this entire season .
 

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These cars actually DO drive off RR. Just like a sprint car.
Ok...we will see who's vehicle works better...yours or mine. Mine does use the rr to help turn and assist in forward bite, but how much help is determined on a couple things...weight on the rr, how much stagger, what the roll couple is, and what or how much transfers from the drivers side. But most assuredly, you want the car to have more LR forward bite than the RR...the RR priority is side bite, then forward bite.

That is why the left rear has more blow outs than the right rear...it generally runs cooler.

Heck....I remember when Mark Martin took the spring out of the right rear at Bristol during practice and ran under the record at the time. Of course he could not actually do that in the race because of rules.
 

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He did it in the No. 6... that kinda raised my eyebrows. :p
I mean great he won the pole, but if that can continue into the 600 and he gets a top 5 great. I'm not going to jump the gun here, but it does look like progress. If Matt goes out and wins few races in the 6, I'll take all the things back i said about him and admit i was wrong.
 

OldTimer

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I mean great he won the pole, but if that can continue into the 600 and he gets a top 5 great. I'm not going to jump the gun here, but it does look like progress. If Matt goes out and wins few races in the 6, I'll take all the things back i said about him and admit i was wrong.
What is it that you have against him? Is it because he is an all around racer able to understand the functions of the vehicle, strategy, tactics, and not just a steering wheel holder?
 

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What is it that you have against him? Is it because he is an all around racer able to understand the functions of the vehicle, strategy, tactics, and not just a steering wheel holder?
I think he is overrated. I have nothing against him.
 

LewTheShoe

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In the Michigan broadcast, I was surprised when Mike Joy noted that Matt Kenseth is not expected to drive again until September. I guess Trevor Bayne will be driving more this year than I thought. I wonder if Matt will be spending a serious amount of time at Roush Fenway's shop this summer, working on his stated goal of helping RFR improve? Or has he already done that with just four races and their associated debriefing meetings? Or was that all just talk, and the real objective was to land the Wyndham sponsorship using Matt as the bait?

In the four races so far, Stenhouse and the 17 team have out performed Kenseth and the 6 team in starting position, average running position, and finish position. Ricky has scored 88 points in these four races, and Matt has scored 49.

Kansas... Start... Avg Running... Finish
Kenseth 35 / 27 / 36
Stenhouse 16 / 17 / 11

Charlotte...
Kenseth 17 / 22 / 17
Stenhouse 13 / 14 / 10

Pocono...
Kenseth 26 / 26 / 13
Stenhouse 23 / 24 / 14

Michigan...
Kenseth 19 / 31 / 33
Stenhouse 7 / 22 / 29

Upcoming schedule and what we know, or think we know...

Sonoma... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Chicago... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Daytona... Not Kenseth per Mike Joy, so Bayne??
Kentucky... Not Kenseth per Mike Joy, so Bayne??
Loudon... Not Kenseth per Mike Joy, so Bayne??
Pocono... Not Kenseth per Mike Joy, so Bayne??
Watkins Glen... Not Kenseth per Mike Joy, so Bayne??
Michigan... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Bristol... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Darlington... TBA (September 2, 2018)
Indianapolis... Kenseth with Wyndham
Las Vegas... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Richmond... TBA
Charlotte... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Dover... Kenseth with Wyndham
Talladega... TBA
Kansas... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Martinsville... TBA
Texas... Advocare, so presume Bayne
Phoenix... Kenseth with Wyndham
Homestead... Kenseth with Wyndham

Is anyone surprised by the long stretch from now until September with Kenseth not in the car? I am. I remember journalists saying, back when Matt's return was announced, that except for a handful of Advocare races, Kenseth would be the driver of the 6 car. They were wrong, or plans have changed. I wonder which?
 
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Seems like he should be running more races than that.
 

LewTheShoe

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So apparently Mike Joy was misinformed, misspoke, or was just wrong.
Apparently so. Mike is usually reliable, IMO. I think it's good that Matt will carry on this summer, assuming Adam Stern is correct, as it's hard for me to see how the lesser schedule would really be a serious effort to turn that ship in a better direction. And so far, through just four races, Matt's results aren't really better than what Bayne was doing.
 

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I think Mike Joy was repeating what was said. It looks like another sponsor may be forthcoming and wants him in the car. Maybe, maybe not, but I doubt Jack is going to run him out of his own pocket.
 

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I think Mike Joy was repeating what was said. It looks like another sponsor may be forthcoming and wants him in the car. Maybe, maybe not, but I doubt Jack is going to run him out of his own pocket.
You be surprised how much Roush Spends now out of his pocket
 

aunty dive

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Well thats still his pocket

Just pulling the money out of the left pocket instead of the right one.

His "pockets" contain tax-paid dollars. Corporate checks written from one company to another represent dollars that can be used to reduce corporate taxes payable. That's a significant difference.

Rich guys are smart. Smart guys don't go racing with their after-tax glue.
 
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