MWR under siege lets help them out

2003 Craftsman Truck Series Championship:
In order to potentially ensure Musgrave winning the championship, Ultra Motorsports entered five trucks in the race. In addition to Musgrave and the team's other full-time team, the #2 Dodge driven by Andy Houston, the team entered their part time #7 truck driven by Tyler Walker. He was joined by the #10 truck driven by Marty Houston, who had not run a race in two years and who had previously been a member of Musgrave's pit crew, and the #27 truck driven by P.J. Jones, who was more often than not only employed as a road course ringer. The extra entries earned a huge amount of criticism from points leader Gaughan as well as fans and other drivers.
As the race went on, Gaughan's complaints proved to be valid. With thirty-four laps to go in the race Gaughan and Marty Houston got into an accident with the #80 of Bryan Reffner. None of the three trucks were able to continue and the accident cost an angry Gaughan, who railed against Ultra's tactics after the accident, the points lead. He went on to finish in twenty-ninth place, ahead of both Houston and Reffner who finished in the next two positions.

Not the only example of a team owner manipulating the outcome to win a championship.
 
NASCRAP knew what was going on....So late in the race they FIXED it so Musgrave wouldn't win the championship. They threw a blag flag on Ted...He blew it off and kept racing. They gave him a 13th ish place finish in the race. That diferance in the points gave the championship to Travis Kvapil.......Musgrave won the Championship in 2005
 
MELROSEMAFIA said:
NASCRAP knew what was going on....So late in the race they FIXED it so Musgrave wouldn't win the championship. They threw a blag flag on Ted...He blew it off and kept racing. They gave him a 13th ish place finish in the race. That diferance in the points gave the championship to Travis Kvapil.......Musgrave won the Championship in 2005
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I thought he got flagged for changing lanes on the restart prior to reaching the S/F line.
 
FenderBumper said:
I agree. We all know that the spin has been done before. Going slow to let a friend pass? Done before. Pitting to give a friend track position? Check.

Doing ALL of that to beat 1 guy turned the chase into a damn 'mcircus. I still wish nascar had the sense to call that spin what it was and penalize MWR for THAT, then penalize them for turning the 55 and 15 into clown cars. If Mikey can't understand that hitting the cheap button so many times in one race is a case of Galactic jackassery, kick him out of the sport for a year and let him think about it.
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Mikey messed up, but the culture was a breeding ground. It was more slippery slope poor judgment less about morals, the end justifies the means to most who want win in cup racing Imo. The bs team stunts wasn't his invention, and Nascar itself waited to long to make the holy smoke 100 percent speech.

Nascar didn't get righteous with Menard and Harvick in 2010. I know having proof is the claimed difference, but RCR carries more prestige and is harder to throw under the bus. Mikey is the assclown, the goofy kid that isnt as cool, a perfect target for righteous indignation.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I thought he got flagged for changing lanes on the restart prior to reaching the S/F line.
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Yep...He pulled out to make the pass, but never did. NASCRAP took 15 minutes to come up with a story at the end of the race. Said something like he attempted to make a pass b-4 the s/f line...
 
NASCAR72 said:
2003 Craftsman Truck Series Championship:
In order to potentially ensure Musgrave winning the championship, Ultra Motorsports entered five trucks in the race. In addition to Musgrave and the team's other full-time team, the #2 Dodge driven by Andy Houston, the team entered their part time #7 truck driven by Tyler Walker. He was joined by the #10 truck driven by Marty Houston, who had not run a race in two years and who had previously been a member of Musgrave's pit crew, and the #27 truck driven by P.J. Jones, who was more often than not only employed as a road course ringer. The extra entries earned a huge amount of criticism from points leader Gaughan as well as fans and other drivers.
As the race went on, Gaughan's complaints proved to be valid. With thirty-four laps to go in the race Gaughan and Marty Houston got into an accident with the #80 of Bryan Reffner. None of the three trucks were able to continue and the accident cost an angry Gaughan, who railed against Ultra's tactics after the accident, the points lead. He went on to finish in twenty-ninth place, ahead of both Houston and Reffner who finished in the next two positions.

Not the only example of a team owner manipulating the outcome to win a championship.
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Welcome to the forum Nascar 72 , great story and much needed to bring this current flap into prospective . Betcha that never happened at the Snowball Derby :) ..we do have one or two members from your neck of the woods . But we could use some help keeping them in line:)
 
@MartySmithESPN
5HR Energy announces it will remain with MWR and @ClintBowyer in 2014.

A mere minutes away from the next MWR thread.
 
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@nascarcasm
That sudden, 80-mph wind gust in Charlotte area that knocked trees over was the collective sigh of relief emanating from MWR.
 
5-hour ENERGY® news

5-hour ENERGY® Announces

Michael Waltrip Racing Sponsorship

Farmington Hills, MI - September 27, 2013 –This week the 5-hour ENERGY® team met after the New Hampshire race to discuss our future with Michael Waltrip Racing. While our original plan was to announce the status of our sponsorship at the end of the year, this timeframe left many concerned about their future. There are scores of passionate fans, numerous charitable organizations, and hundreds of hard-working MWR employees and their families who are directly impacted by 5-hour ENERGY’s NASCAR sponsorship. After several internal discussions and meetings with MWR, we are prepared to announce our decision ahead of schedule. 5-hour ENERGY® will be back as a sponsor of MWR and Clint Bowyer for 2014. We look forward to another great year of competitive racing. Go 15!
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
5-hour ENERGY® news

5-hour ENERGY® Announces

Michael Waltrip Racing Sponsorship

Farmington Hills, MI - September 27, 2013 –This week the 5-hour ENERGY® team met after the New Hampshire race to discuss our future with Michael Waltrip Racing. While our original plan was to announce the status of our sponsorship at the end of the year, this timeframe left many concerned about their future. There are scores of passionate fans, numerous charitable organizations, and hundreds of hard-working MWR employees and their families who are directly impacted by 5-hour ENERGY’s NASCAR sponsorship. After several internal discussions and meetings with MWR, And Toyota donating $10 million to our slush fund, we are prepared to announce our decision ahead of schedule. 5-hour ENERGY® will be back as a sponsor of MWR and Clint Bowyer for 2014. We look forward to another great year of competitive racing. Go 15!
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I kept slapping my hands but I just couldnt help myself. ;)
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
5-hour ENERGY® news

5-hour ENERGY® Announces

Michael Waltrip Racing Sponsorship

Farmington Hills, MI - September 27, 2013 –This week the 5-hour ENERGY® team met after the New Hampshire race to discuss our future with Michael Waltrip Racing. While our original plan was to announce the status of our sponsorship at the end of the year, this timeframe left many concerned about their future. There are scores of passionate fans, numerous charitable organizations, and hundreds of hard-working MWR employees and their families who are directly impacted by 5-hour ENERGY’s NASCAR sponsorship. After several internal discussions and meetings with MWR, we are prepared to announce our decision ahead of schedule. 5-hour ENERGY® will be back as a sponsor of MWR and Clint Bowyer for 2014. We look forward to another great year of competitive racing. Go 15!
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If 5 Hour stays in business. If I was Spinner I would be looking for another ride.
 
#17D500winner said:
Good for MWR.
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More importantly, good for NASCAR.

ANY fan who boycotts ANY sponsor because of something a driver or team did is really not as big a NASCAR fan as they think. The companies that pour millions of dollars into this sport need our unconditional support. It's really that simple. As long as it's not something the sponsor did, or the sponsor said - the support needs to be UNCONDITIONAL.

NAPA leaving MWR crushed MWR, but it hurt every single team. It has a ripple effect across the entire sport, and every single one of us has felt the effects. I get sponsorships for teams. I deal with sponsors. I activate the programs. I know the effect it has had. It makes every sponsor in the garage look in the mirror, and ask themselves "what if this was us? Is it worth the risk? Is this sport safe to sponsor anymore?" Every year budgets are set aside for NASCAR programs, and contracts are signed between teams and companies...and I'm telling you right now, this renewal season is going to give a lot of teams gray hairs trying to grow, if not just retain, their current sponsorship dollars. This is serious stuff, guys.

"Fans" calling for boycotts of 5 Hour Energy (or any sponsor for that matter) have NO IDEA just how much damage they're potentially doing to the entire sport.
 
Allenbaba said:
More importantly, good for NASCAR.

ANY fan who boycotts ANY sponsor because of something a driver or team did is really not as big a NASCAR fan as they think. The companies that pour millions of dollars into this sport need our unconditional support. It's really that simple. As long as it's not something the sponsor did, or the sponsor said - the support needs to be UNCONDITIONAL.

NAPA leaving MWR crushed MWR, but it hurt every single team. It has a ripple effect across the entire sport, and every single one of us has felt the effects. I get sponsorships for teams. I deal with sponsors. I activate the programs. I know the effect it has had. It makes every sponsor in the garage look in the mirror, and ask themselves "what if this was us? Is it worth the risk? Is this sport safe to sponsor anymore?" Every year budgets are set aside for NASCAR programs, and contracts are signed between teams and companies...and I'm telling you right now, this renewal season is going to give a lot of teams gray hairs trying to grow, if not just retain, their current sponsorship dollars. This is serious stuff, guys.

"Fans" calling for boycotts of 5 Hour Energy (or any sponsor for that matter) have NO IDEA just how much damage they're potentially doing to the entire sport.
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Yeah, and that too :)
 
Yeah that is all well and good, but good luck with all that. More like sponsors, GOOD sponsors, should let the driver be the driver, not have to be the puppet they want them to be, and grow a thicker skin about fans. Because the reality is it is twitter and facebook time, and along with trying to control your driver, and doing what the vocal few want you to do, you come off like a corporate spineless idiot
 
StandOnIt said:
Yeah that is all well and good, but good luck with all that. More like sponsors, GOOD sponsors, should let the driver be the driver, not have to be the puppet they want them to be, and grow a thicker skin about fans. Because the reality is it is twitter and facebook time, and along with trying to control your driver, and doing what the vocal few want you to do, you come off like a corporate spineless idiot
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I think most are as you described they should be.

What I'm saying is that when someone like Bowyer and MWR come off like cheaters and liars, blowing up NAPA and 5-Hour Energy's Facebook page is misguided, and ultimately harmful to the entire sport. I know someone said earlier that "with certain actions come certain consequences..." Well, I can say the exact same thing about the "consequences" that poster spoke of. Those consequences ALSO have consequences. Like every sponsor in the garage not wanting to be the next victim...
 
Allenbaba said:
More importantly, good for NASCAR.

ANY fan who boycotts ANY sponsor because of something a driver or team did is really not as big a NASCAR fan as they think. The companies that pour millions of dollars into this sport need our unconditional support. It's really that simple. As long as it's not something the sponsor did, or the sponsor said - the support needs to be UNCONDITIONAL.

NAPA leaving MWR crushed MWR, but it hurt every single team. It has a ripple effect across the entire sport, and every single one of us has felt the effects. I get sponsorships for teams. I deal with sponsors. I activate the programs. I know the effect it has had. It makes every sponsor in the garage look in the mirror, and ask themselves "what if this was us? Is it worth the risk? Is this sport safe to sponsor anymore?" Every year budgets are set aside for NASCAR programs, and contracts are signed between teams and companies...and I'm telling you right now, this renewal season is going to give a lot of teams gray hairs trying to grow, if not just retain, their current sponsorship dollars. This is serious stuff, guys.

"Fans" calling for boycotts of 5 Hour Energy (or any sponsor for that matter) have NO IDEA just how much damage they're potentially doing to the entire sport.
Click to expand...
This is probably one of the best and most truthful posts that I think I have ever read on this forum.
 
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The only thing that gets my unconditional support is my family.
I agree that harassing a sponsor for something a nascar team does in a race is over the top, and I can see how other sponsors may be wary about being in NAPA's shoes. But every sport has over zealous fans, so I'm not sure how you can keep something like that from happening.

I'm not signing off on this 'UNCONDITIONAL' support of nascar stuff. I used to be a hardcore nascar fan, but not anymore. I still enjoy nascar and watch every race. But I don't fork over my money to attend a string of races every year like I once did. I don't like the direction the sport has taken over the last ten years, so nascar lost my unconditional support for that reason.

Expecting fans to give unconditional support of nascar is a bit much, I think.
 
Allenbaba said:
More importantly, good for NASCAR.

ANY fan who boycotts ANY sponsor because of something a driver or team did is really not as big a NASCAR fan as they think. The companies that pour millions of dollars into this sport need our unconditional support. It's really that simple. As long as it's not something the sponsor did, or the sponsor said - the support needs to be UNCONDITIONAL.

NAPA leaving MWR crushed MWR, but it hurt every single team. It has a ripple effect across the entire sport, and every single one of us has felt the effects. I get sponsorships for teams. I deal with sponsors. I activate the programs. I know the effect it has had. It makes every sponsor in the garage look in the mirror, and ask themselves "what if this was us? Is it worth the risk? Is this sport safe to sponsor anymore?" Every year budgets are set aside for NASCAR programs, and contracts are signed between teams and companies...and I'm telling you right now, this renewal season is going to give a lot of teams gray hairs trying to grow, if not just retain, their current sponsorship dollars. This is serious stuff, guys.

"Fans" calling for boycotts of 5 Hour Energy (or any sponsor for that matter) have NO IDEA just how much damage they're potentially doing to the entire sport.
Click to expand...

Nitro Dude said:
This is probably one of the best and most truthful posts that I think I have ever read on this forum.
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You two have a dog in this fight, I don't. Allen apparently part of your job is damage control and putting the appropriate spin on the situation, Nitro works in the industry and sponsors pay your salaries in a roundabout way, but from what I see and hear it blew up because people were tired of MWR causing integrity issues within our sport and it wasn't handled properly, if Michael and all concerned had come right out told the truth and said we did it and we apologize etc etc and nascar had reset the finishing order to the timing line before the caution caused by the fifteen or had penalized MWRs three drivers 100 points each, to put them out of the chase, quickly on Monday there would of been an outcry for sure but not nearly of this magnitude In My Opinion. Personally I want it to quickly go completely away but I'm sad to say I don't think it will because MW refuses to tell the truth and the fans still have to see him on TV every week denying everything.
 
Johali, I agree with everything you've said.

Fans have every reason to be pissed. MWR (and to a certain extent, NASCAR) handled everything surrounding this situation horribly. The whole thing sucks.

ALL I'M SAYING is that directing anger to sponsors is just plain dumb. I couldn't even fathom someone wanting to debate that statement. If MW continues to deny, attacking his sponsors IS DUMB. I don't care how badly he lies. IT'S DUMB. Any Jeff Gordon fan or Ryan Newman fan who went to 5-Hour Energy's facebook page that night to write nasty comments basically just made THEIR drivers' sponsors... AARP and Outback Steakhouse (for example) and every other sponsor in the sport question whether or not sponsoring NASCAR is a risk worth taking. You guys understand the connection, right? It's not hard to get a handle on. My salary has nothing to do with it...NASCAR teams and drivers account for < 10% of my client base. I'm not even really a fan. If the sport went away tomorrow, my life wouldn't miss a beat. But I have to imagine, the angry mobs writing nasty letters to sponsors would miss NASCAR, right....?

SO WHY ATTACK SPONSORS?!?!?!?!?!?!?
 
Allenbaba said:
I think most are as you described they should be.

What I'm saying is that when someone like Bowyer and MWR come off like cheaters and liars, blowing up NAPA and 5-Hour Energy's Facebook page is misguided, and ultimately harmful to the entire sport. I know someone said earlier that "with certain actions come certain consequences..." Well, I can say the exact same thing about the "consequences" that poster spoke of. Those consequences ALSO have consequences. Like every sponsor in the garage not wanting to be the next victim...
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If you as a sponsor are stupid enough to let a vocal few, influence who you sponsor, when anybody who is a fan KNOWS Napa didn't have anything to do with it. Sorry I can't see the connection as to why everybody has to tiptoe around the sponsor. they aren't the show, but a product of it. As a fan and a customer of Napa for years..I don't get the connection..it is a race car..Napa decides to sponsor it. They don't need to be in Nascar with that thin of a skin. Good riddance. Hope AutoZone sponsors Truex next year, or O'reilly.. something ironic.
 
StandOnIt said:
If you as a sponsor are stupid enough to let a vocal few, influence who you sponsor, when anybody who is a fan KNOWS Napa didn't have anything to do with it. Sorry I can't see the connection as to why everybody has to tiptoe around the sponsor. they aren't the show, but a product of it. As a fan and a customer of Napa for years..I don't get the connection..it is a race car..Napa decides to sponsor it. They don't need to be in Nascar with that thin of a skin. Good riddance. Hope AutoZone sponsors Truex next year, or O'reilly.. something ironic.
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So....rather than encourage fans to not take their anger out on sponsors....we should be encouraging companies who spend $16mm on NASCAR, when they could be spending those marketing dollars anywhere, to have thicker skin? Come on.

I'm totally in your camp, by the way. My skin's thick as hell, and I encourage my clients to be the same. But our opinions are moot. In the world we live in, the vocal few make big dents when it comes to marketing decisions. Always have, always will. So... why attack sponsors?

Alright, I'm done on the topic. Have to leave for Dover. Enjoy the race everyone!
 
Johali said:
You two have a dog in this fight, I don't. Allen apparently part of your job is damage control and putting the appropriate spin on the situation, Nitro works in the industry and sponsors pay your salaries in a roundabout way, but from what I see and hear it blew up because people were tired of MWR causing integrity issues within our sport and it wasn't handled properly, if Michael and all concerned had come right out told the truth and said we did it and we apologize etc etc and nascar had reset the finishing order to the timing line before the caution caused by the fifteen or had penalized MWRs three drivers 100 points each, to put them out of the chase, quickly on Monday there would of been an outcry for sure but not nearly of this magnitude In My Opinion. Personally I want it to quickly go completely away but I'm sad to say I don't think it will because MW refuses to tell the truth and the fans still have to see him on TV every week denying everything.
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Johali, I agree with you that the size of my paycheck depends a lot on sponsorship... there is no one that knows that any better then I do.LOL... I can't say that I disagree with you about why the fans are so upset, but I have never seen anything good come out of boycotting a sponsor or trying to put a racing team out of business. It's no secret that MWR started this mess, but a lot of unhappy fans helped esculate it to the point where NAPA has dropped MWR, and possibly Nascar altogether. And that is not good for anyone...no matter who is at fault
 
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Allenbaba said:
So....rather than encourage fans to not take their anger out on sponsors....we should be encouraging companies who spend $16mm on NASCAR, when they could be spending those marketing dollars anywhere, to have thicker skin? Come on.

I'm totally in your camp, by the way. My skin's thick as hell, and I encourage my clients to be the same. But our opinions are moot. In the world we live in, the vocal few make big dents when it comes to marketing decisions. Always have, always will. So... why attack sponsors?

Alright, I'm done on the topic. Have to leave for Dover. Enjoy the race everyone!
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I'm envious.:)
 
StandOnIt said:
If you as a sponsor are stupid enough to let a vocal few, influence who you sponsor, when anybody who is a fan KNOWS Napa didn't have anything to do with it. Sorry I can't see the connection as to why everybody has to tiptoe around the sponsor. they aren't the show, but a product of it. As a fan and a customer of Napa for years..I don't get the connection..it is a race car..Napa decides to sponsor it. They don't need to be in Nascar with that thin of a skin. Good riddance. Hope AutoZone sponsors Truex next year, or O'reilly.. something ironic.
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Its' called guilty by association, Napa had nothing to do with the cheating, but who do you associate with that car number and driver....Napa! So by being on that car they are the bad boy too. I can see why fans would boycott Napa, even if it is stupid to do so. No doubt this has had a negative rippling effect on the future of sponsorship for next year.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Its' called guilty by association, Napa had nothing to do with the cheating, but who do you associate with that car number and driver....Napa! So by being on that car they are the bad boy too. I can see why fans would boycott Napa, even if it is stupid to do so. No doubt this has had a negative rippling effect on the future of sponsorship for next year.
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Name a Nascar team who hasn't cheated.
 
#17D500winner said:
Every sponsor is Nascar is associated with a cheater.
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OK ...but when you are associated a cheater that repeatedly does it and gets caught, doesn't that make it more of an awkward scenario when you are a sponsor?
 
Mopardh9 said:
OK ...but when you are associated a cheater that repeatedly does it and gets caught, doesn't that make it more of an awkward scenario when you are a sponsor?
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I guess it depends on the sponsor. Some high profile teams are repeat offenders and their high profile sponsors don't seem to mind.
 
#17D500winner said:
I guess it depends on the sponsor. Some high profile teams are repeat offenders and their high profile sponsors don't seem to mind.
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MW did some stupid crap, and they way they did it was stupidity at its' highest! I like MW, but he really F'd up this time!
 
Mopardh9 said:
OK ...but when you are associated a cheater that repeatedly does it and gets caught, doesn't that make it more of an awkward scenario when you are a sponsor?
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I think Alan was more concerned with the fan reaction direct to the sponsor . Lowes seem quite happy with Jimmie and Chad being repeatly caught in rule violations , but I don't think that they get the amount of negative feedback that Napa and 5hr Energy were getting . Negative feedback like that is negative to all the sponsors in the garage and intimidates them all.
 
Depends on the sponsor, Napa has a thin skin. You don't hear a peep out of Toyota going anywhere because of it, or anybody else sponsoring MWR. Anybody with any knowledge of racing knows the the sponsor didn't have anything to do with it. In fact if it had worked, Napa would have had even more coverage than they bargained for. to me this was just an excuse for Napa to change their course, and they got a get out of it free card and used the few goofs that were whining about it to get out. Sort of like "I got my good clothes on and I hear my moma calling"
 
Mopardh9 said:
OK ...but when you are associated a cheater that repeatedly does it and gets caught, doesn't that make it more of an awkward scenario when you are a sponsor?
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Wasn't there a team " I'm thinking Penske" that got caught cheating twice this year? Edit, and then failed the post race inspection in the Nationwide race today.
 
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