nascar ended up with a corrupt race

Jeffrey00 said:
Someone on Reddit brought up a good point. Not only did Bowyer intentionally spin out, but he apparently parked his car for the final two laps. Can anyone confirm this? Apparently they are saying he stayed on the lead lap after the spin, but parked for final two laps to ensure that the 22 would finish ahead of him. That would screw Gordon out of 10th, putting Logano in 10th. That way Truex didn't have to fight Logano for the final wild card spot. Why didn't espn bring this up??

Also on the last lap Vickers slowed down to let Logano finish ahead of him?

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OMG!!!!!!!!! it gets even worse than I thought when I made this post last night. quite simply here is the scenario. if the 22 doesn't finish in the top 10 in points he would then end up needing a wild card which means lagano and kahne get the wildcards truex out. so basically if you are MWR you don't want anyone that could bump truex from the wildcard. a newman win and lagano if he falls out could do it. So what ended up happening is both MWR cars made sure they finished behind lagano giving lagano even more points. So not only does the spin from bowyer impact who wins the race we have 2 drivers making sure they finish behind another. this stinks I don't care what anyone says and here is proof beyond a conspiracy. people can complain about debris cautions and all that, but we finally have proof of a race and a seasons worth of efforts being manipulated by a few people.

cap that with the race winner jumping the restart in obvious fashion. NO PAUL MENARD DID NOT SPIN THE TIRES because he didn't bunch up the field. There is a cloud on this race and I don't care what anyone says or doesn't say about it. I read on jayski where john darby claims "oh there is no way thats intentional" umm what else is nascar going to say at this point. they know saying it looked suspicious makes thenm look bad. They would be forced to make a judgement call. This very well could be the most manipulated outcome of a race in the HISTORY of the sport.

this is a big freaking deal, if a driver makes the chase it allows a race team to approach sponsors and say our guy made the chase. further guys that make the chase get a TON more exposure. millions of $$$$ are at stake. it could mean the difference if napa reups with MWR or if quicken loans follows newman, not only would he have won the race but made the chase too. To me that is the real looser in all this. I wonder what nascar would do if something like this happened that effected the outcome of the championship. people comparing what dale jr did spinning intentionally and debris cautions to this, your freaking crazy, we have an entire seasons worth of efforts by race teams altered. We have a race that was won by someone who should not have won it and a win taken away from a guy who should have won it. hell kurt busch should have won even if the spin was legit. I can guarantee one thing, I would like to be the fly on the wall when nascar talks to the MWR people in private. lastly if vickers was told to pit coupled with bowyer self parking for 2 laps, doesn't that say that MWR was effecting the outcome on purpose and make the spin from bowyer look even more intentional??
 
klemmabyna said:
I love a great conspiracy theory!

I have to give credit to all those involved. if they are capable of calculating all the different scenarios and potential impact of each move as they happen, plus forsee how other racers will finish, if they finish, and then orchestrate the timing of the game plan so as to bring about the perfect result...

and we think we know more than these guys? I don't think so!

we're probably smarter than brian france and nascar, but team #15 may have executed the perfect game plan.:D
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The evidence is overwhelming what Bowyer, Vickers, and MWR did. Bowyer spun on purpose, then crawled off the pits, Vickers purposefully drove 30 mph slower than the field. It's not a conspiracy theory. And they didn't have to predict what the others would do. They just did what the best they could to cheat and game the system. And it worked. It might not have. They had to have some luck, too.

It really wasn't that complicated what they did.
 
the real question: does nascar change anything? I don't think so for 2013, but what about next year?
 
Also, now we know why Mikey had to relieve Vicker's crew chief Rodney Childers before the race once Childers announced he would work for Stewart-Haas next season.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Funny that you hate on Jeff when Joey's idol is Gordon & Joey was seen as "the next Jeff Gordon" coming into cup.
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Im not hatin on Jeff... All I said was poor Jeffy... it sucks for him, but if that's the cost for Joey to be in then I could care less about what Gordon has to do with anything. I really have nothing against him.. but just because Joey's supposed to be the next jeff Gordon or because he likes him doesn't mean I have to.
 
klemmabyna said:
the real question: does nascar change anything? I don't think so for 2013, but what about next year?
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no it doesn't change anything this year. but it could effect a race teams sponsorship for next year. it also effects how much money is won. to be fair nascar was in a very tuff spot here. There were so many things going on there was no way to keep up with it. Nascar should have said at the finish of the race that the final restart was under review. that way they could have taken a few moments to see that really happened and make a judgement call on it. I am talking the carl edwards jumping the restart and reviewing that in the moments after the race. the other shanigans were too much to keep up with and probably beyond nascar's ability to deal with on the spot in the given situation. I bet nascar does deal with it behind the scenes though. something like this could effect the championship, easily
 
This junior high cr*p is just a product of the Chase, which I've never liked.

Nascar will either get better or worse, and if it gets worse it will lose even more fans.
 
ToyYoda said:
Gordon probably wouldn't have had a chance in hell anyway had he made the Chase, he was 11th in points with zero wins going into Richmond for a reason.
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That's besides the point. Newman likely wasn't winning the title either. Doesn't make what Bowyer did right and why the hell did Vickers slow down?
 
ElliottFan said:
To me this is way bigger drama than one driver wrecking another. This cuts right to the core of the rules and how to game the nas-scam system. This incident with Boyer and MWR is about as obvious as it can get. Nas-scam should throw down the gauntlet of them but they dont have the balls. There is a rat in the wood pile on this one.

One more thing. Multi car teams are just one of the things wrong with the sport and this is proof!
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I agree with you on the multi car teams.
 
Just an observation: bowyer, Truex, and even the usually very chatty Darrell waltrip have been completely silent on social media since the end of the race.
 
FenderBumper said:
These drivers have watched nascar throw the yellow when it suited them, taking away wins in the process. That reality just makes it easier for teams to do the same.
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Bingo, respecting the integrity even when inconvenient has to come from the top. If not Nascar shouldn't expect the fans or drivers to worry over about it either.
I read a lot folks wanting a debris caution to help their driver. Well if fake cautions are ok then, they should have been ok last night too.

The bad joke is an old one.
 
What needs to happen here is for the media to flog away at this. This is one entity that those crooked bastards cant control or at least I dont think they can. There needs to be some major damning headlines right before the chase to hit nas-scam right in the pocketbooks.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
With Jr's testimony, in car radio, camera, and telemetry I think Nascar should be able to prove that the spin was intentional. If so that is a huge problem if you ask me. It makes Nascar look like fools, and as other have said pretty much fixes the race and chase.
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After the race last night they showed, from his in-car camera, Bowyer's last lap or so before he spun, including the radio transmissions, but for the life of me I couldn't make out what was said.

Was he told specifically to bring out a caution or was it just some kinda cryptic message ?

IMO, Mikey and Clint need to fess up to their crap and take a hit in owners and drivers points.

Other than a points and maybe $ penalty to obvious offenders, I don't see a lot that NASCAR can do to keep this from happening again.
 
before that someone said the 39 is going to win the race, pause then someone says that sucks.


"Is your arm starting to hurt?" Pattie said. "I bet it's getting hot in there. Itch it."

thats the radio traffic before the incident.
 
pjmolo said:
After the race last night they showed, from his in-car camera, Bowyer's last lap or so before he spun, including the radio transmissions, but for the life of me I couldn't make out what was said.

Was he told specifically to bring out a caution or was it just some kinda cryptic message ?

IMO, Mikey and Clint need to fess up to their crap and take a hit in owners and drivers points.

Other than a points and maybe $ penalty to obvious offenders, I don't see a lot that NASCAR can do to keep this from happening again.
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They didn't say "Clint spin out here" but they told him 39 is gonna win. it sucks, does your arm hurt? Your car is hot? lol such bs.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
before that someone said the 39 is going to win the race, pause then someone says that sucks.


"Is your arm starting to hurt?" Pattie said. "I bet it's getting hot in there. Itch it."

thats the radio traffic before the incident.
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My 20-20 hindsight sees that most of that is included in your first post to this thread.

thanks . . .
 
pjmolo said:
After the race last night they showed, from his in-car camera, Bowyer's last lap or so before he spun, including the radio transmissions, but for the life of me I couldn't make out what was said.

Was he told specifically to bring out a caution or was it just some kinda cryptic message ?

IMO, Mikey and Clint need to fess up to their crap and take a hit in owners and drivers points.

Other than a points and maybe $ penalty to obvious offenders, I don't see a lot that NASCAR can do to keep this from happening again.
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They need to drop the hammer and do something like revoke good guy Mikey's owner's license.
DSquad48 said:
Just an observation: bowyer, Truex, and even the usually very chatty Darrell waltrip have been completely silent on social media since the end of the race.
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It's gotta be really difficult for their PR guys to script statements for something of this magnitude.
 
There will not be a big stink.

Nascar drivers will soon be all sucking it up for the good of the sport.
At least if they obey their training, the past shut up fines created a submissive lot of Staford wives long before last night.

I have been told in the past when I criticized Nascar for censoring when drivers speak their minds, that I just dont get the buisness necessities.

Well for the sake of the business get over last night tow the company line, and shut your mouth up about Nascars flaws. Company policy 101 getting away with a jumped restart is ok if you can get away with it, manipulating a caution is ok too most of the time. Just say "wonderful, wonderful" like Lawernce Welk would, that matters the most.

The real trajedy was Dale Jarretts criticism after Carls restart (detrimentalies casting doubts about Race Control). I hope they disqualify his entry into HoF.
 
Greg said:
There will not be a big stink.

Nascar drivers will soon be all sucking it up for the good of the sport.
At least if they obey their training, the past shut up fines created a submissive lot of Staford wives long before last night.

I have been told in the past when I criticized Nascar for censoring when drivers speak their minds, that I just dont get the buisness necessities.

Well for the sake of the business get over last night tow the company line, and shut your mouth up about Nascars flaws. Company policy 101 getting away with a jumped restart is ok if you can get away with it, manipulating a caution is ok too most of the time. Just say "wonderful, wonderful" like Lawernce Welk would, that matters the most.

The real trajedy was Dale Jarretts criticism after Carls restart (detrimentalies casting doubts about Race Control). I hope they disqualify his entry into HoF.
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:cheers:
 
Greg said:
Bingo, respecting the integrity even when inconvenient has to come from the top. If not Nascar shouldn't expect the fans or drivers to worry over about it either.
I read a lot folks wanting a debris caution to help their driver. Well if fake cautions are ok then, they should have been ok last night too.
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Fake debris cautions are different since, in theory, Nascar isn't throwing them to help any particular driver, but just to bunch up the cars for the last laps so the race has an exciting finish cause that is what attracts casual fans and gets replayed on SportsCenter.

I'm kinda surprised some race series don't just formalize a late race "competition caution" so every race gets bunched up at the end with an exciting finish.

The whole Chase itself, and every playoff system in any sport, is a "competition caution" that does just that. Bunches up the teams for the post-season and lets the lesser teams get another crack at the top teams. Adds more randomness and chaos and excitement for the fans. And the casual fans love it. Every playoff system is a gimmick that adds artificial competition and lessens the chances that the "best" team wins.

Hard-core fans often want more "pure" competition, but casual fans don't care about that, they just want something exciting to happen when they watch. And every sport chases the casuals, cause that's where the money is.
 
StoneTown said:
Fake debris cautions are different since, in theory, Nascar isn't throwing them to help any particular driver, but just to bunch up the cars for the last laps so the race has an exciting finish cause that is what attracts casual fans and gets replayed on SportsCenter.

I'm kinda surprised some race series don't just formalize a late race "competition caution" so every race gets bunched up at the end with an exciting finish.

The whole Chase itself, and every playoff system in any sport, is a "competition caution" that does just that. Bunches up the teams for the post-season and lets the lesser teams get another crack at the top teams. Adds more randomness and chaos and excitement for the fans. And the casual fans love it. Every playoff system is a gimmick that adds artificial competition and lessens the chances that the "best" team wins.

Hard-core fans often want more "pure" competition, but casual fans don't care about that, they just want something exciting to happen when they watch. And every sport chases the casuals, cause that's where the money is.
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Fake or real they alter results at a minimum and the race by simplifying changing the pit cycles.
 
OMG the holier than thou ranting of all the church ladies . This has been a part of every form of racing from day one . I remember a time when Dale Sr. only needed at 40th place finish to win a championship in the final race so RC started a couple extra cars and had them drop out early . No big deal , just racin . Like someone said , it probably started at the first Olympics in Rome.
 
Jenna Fryer ‏@JennaFryer 22m
On Lap 396 Vickers is told he's got to pit and he replies "I've got to WHAT?"

Jenna Fryer ‏@JennaFryer 21m
"We're probably going to pit here on green." Vickers "Are you talking to me?" "Yeah, we're going to pit." Vickers: "What? I've got to pit?"

Jenna Fryer ‏@JennaFryer 17m
BV: "I don't understand. Pit right now?" "You've got to pit this time. We need that 1 point." BV: "10-4. Do I got a tire going down?" "Yeah"

Jenna Fryer ‏@JennaFryer 16m
"Come down pit road right now, get a good look at it." BV: "Did you find anything?" "I'll see you after the race, Brian, I owe you a kiss."
 
ted@economy said:
OMG the holier than thou ranting of all the church ladies . This has been a part of every form of racing from day one . I remember a time when Dale Sr. only needed at 40th place finish to win a championship in the final race so RC started a couple extra cars and had them drop out early . No big deal , just racin . Like someone said , it probably started at the first Olympics in Rome.
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Olympia ;)
 
FenderBumper said:
nascar said the same thing after Menards intentional spin, which was more like the old 'turn left to the infield grass and make believe you're stuck until the yellow comes out' move. . Their stance at that time was if nobody confesses, there's nothing they can do.
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It looks like NASCAR already has a thermonuclear blast resistant level of evidence on this.
 
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