NASCAR needs a new car ASAP

KTMLew01 said:
That explains why it makes sense. Was a essentially copy & paste from R&T. I should have known.

Doh...guess that IS on R&T's site. Was in my Yahoo feed. My bad.
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Yeah Yahoo comes up with some decent stuff, but like I said, my mouse craps out on it. I read it but didn't post it. It doesn't seem that there are too many on the forum that read long articles. I don't get many comments when I post the long ones. They say half of the U.S. reads below 6th grade levels so I try to keep them short.
 
Turtle84 said:
I'm saying they're doing the best they can with what they're already highly invested into, and now they're in a bad spot. It's very clear this car is a step backwards in regards to safety compared to it's predecessor, it gave 3 drivers concussions last year Kurt Bowman Reddick, one of them retired. The Preece in car impact is not normal stuff nor the puncture into the greenhouse of Larson's, and if no significant changes get made I guess we all just hope for the best. Right now they're getting lucky in this aspect, and I hope that continues.
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How many dudes got concussions before the Gen 7 but were never tested? Concussion awareness is relatively new.

I guess if we don’t test for it, it’s not there.
 
One thing I'll never understand: We've seen a considerable increase in concussion awareness, which has resulted in an increase in testing and diagnosis across all sports leagues. No serious person would claim that the NFL's safety equipment is less safe than it was ten years ago just because concussions are being diagnosed at a higher rate. NASCAR fans have such a "NASCAR BAD!" boner that they've used the increase in concussion awareness as "proof' that the Gen 7 is "unsafe" instead of drawing the same conclusion as EVERY other fanbase and praising the sanctioning body for giving a **** about the brain health of their athletes.
 
The Nature Boy said:
One thing I'll never understand: We've seen a considerable increase in concussion awareness, which has resulted in an increase in testing and diagnosis across all sports leagues. No serious person would claim that the NFL's safety equipment is less safe than it was ten years ago just because concussions are being diagnosed at a higher rate. NASCAR fans have such a "NASCAR BAD!" boner that they've used the increase in concussion awareness as "proof' that the Gen 7 is "unsafe" instead of drawing the same conclusion as EVERY other fanbase and praising the sanctioning body for giving a **** about the brain health of their athletes.
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It and anything else some of then can find is to fit their Nascar is bad agenda.
 
That structural steel is on both sides of the driver's side, inside and out, and also across the top.
 
Thinking back to his flip a couple years ago etc Larson always seems to have the biggest wrecks at Talladega spring for some reason…
 
hmmm298 said:
Thinking back to his flip a couple years ago etc Larson always seems to have the biggest wrecks at Talladega spring for some reason…
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He’s taken a lick or two this year. That wreck last year in Vegas when Bubba went after him was a hard one too.
 
The Nature Boy said:
One thing I'll never understand: We've seen a considerable increase in concussion awareness, which has resulted in an increase in testing and diagnosis across all sports leagues. No serious person would claim that the NFL's safety equipment is less safe than it was ten years ago just because concussions are being diagnosed at a higher rate. NASCAR fans have such a "NASCAR BAD!" boner that they've used the increase in concussion awareness as "proof' that the Gen 7 is "unsafe" instead of drawing the same conclusion as EVERY other fanbase and praising the sanctioning body for giving a **** about the brain health of their athletes.
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Of course it is a good thing that concussion awareness in sports has increased but let's not pretend it was completely absent during the Gen6 era and miraculously appeared in 2022.
Busch's and Bowman's concussions after minor hits last year obviously showed that there was a problem with the rear bumper structure which NASCAR admitted, that's why they changed it.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Of course it is a good thing that concussion awareness in sports has increased but let's not pretend it was completely absent during the Gen6 era and miraculously appeared in 2022.
Busch's and Bowman's concussions after minor hits last year obviously showed that there was a problem with the rear bumper structure which NASCAR admitted, that's why they changed it.
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Neither one of those are what I would have considered minor hits
 
yeah it is kinda easy to mistake those hits as being light because the whole corner, trunk and all didn't crumple up like the old car did. I couldn't believe Reddick kept going after the hits he took at Talladega. The old car would have been out of the race.
 
i hope we get to see larsons car after they take the body off.tubes are suppose to BEND.not rip apart, brake, or brake the welds. after driving off road racecars for 40 years. i just know nun of that looks right. not sure if these are welded by people or robots.the extra plating on the drivers side isnt really not going to help much if the tubing and welds the hold it brake..cant wait for what nascar has to say.
 
Jr. brought up a good point in that more can be learned and fixed in the #41 car than the #5 car. If you look the #41 didn't absorb much energy as the front wasn't tore up that bad for the impact it took. So maybe the solution to this is a new front clip.

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wi_racefan said:
Neither one of those are what I would have considered minor hits
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You can't reasonably tell me that you watched Kurt's crash as it happened and expected it to be career-ending. He even said he wasn't back to 100% many months after the crash. If Bowman's wreck at Texas wasn't a minor hit than I don't know what is.
Many drivers stated after wrecks last season that it was the hardest hit they ever took, one of the more experienced drivers (Harvick IIRC) said it was only comparable to concrete-wall hits from early in his career.
StandOnIt said:
yeah it is kinda easy to mistake those hits as being light because the whole corner, trunk and all didn't crumple up like the old car did. I couldn't believe Reddick kept going after the hits he took at Talladega. The old car would have been out of the race.
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That's because the car doesn't absorp the impact, the driver does.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Of course it is a good thing that concussion awareness in sports has increased but let's not pretend it was completely absent during the Gen6 era and miraculously appeared in 2022.
Busch's and Bowman's concussions after minor hits last year obviously showed that there was a problem with the rear bumper structure which NASCAR admitted, that's why they changed it.
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We can ask Dale Jr. how "safe" the Gen 6 was.

donthaveanickname said:
You can't reasonably tell me that you watched Kurt's crash as it happened and expected it to be career-ending.
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Did anyone watch Jerry Nadeau’s crash and think the same? TBIs happen in weird ways. If Busch had crashed in the Gen 6, the back end would have absorbed more of the impact so the car would have looked “worse.”

Busch also had 15+ years of Cup racing and likely multiple undiagnosed concussions before NASCAR implemented its concussion protocol. As we also should have learned from Dale Jr, concussions have a bit of a cumulative effect.

Using damage to the car to determine damage to the human is flawed.
 
Earnhardt estimates he suffered about 25 closed head injuries, most of which were undiagnosed and went untreated.

It’s not difficult to imagine Kurt Busch’s problem is cumulative damage.
 
Meanwhile, after all that, Larson, along with his NASCAR buddies Bowman and Stenhouse, is running The High Limit Sprint Car Series race in Iowa.

It’s Tuesday.
 
aunty dive said:
Meanwhile, after all that, Larson, along with his NASCAR buddies Bowman and Stenhouse, is running The High Limit Sprint Car Series race in Iowa.

It’s Tuesday.
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Bowman just flipped in that race. He walked back to the ambulance so he seems to be ok. The other car he was tangled up with is completely junk

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It is. Tore that round chromemoly steel down tube right off.

Imagine that.
 
I would like to see Nascar fix their tracks so the walls don't stick out and become a danger to the drivers.
 
wi_racefan said:
Jr. brought up a good point in that more can be learned and fixed in the #41 car than the #5 car. If you look the #41 didn't absorb much energy as the front wasn't tore up that bad for the impact it took. So maybe the solution to this is a new front clip.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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donthaveanickname said:
You can't reasonably tell me that you watched Kurt's crash as it happened and expected it to be career-ending. He even said he wasn't back to 100% many months after the crash. If Bowman's wreck at Texas wasn't a minor hit than I don't know what is.
Many drivers stated after wrecks last season that it was the hardest hit they ever took, one of the more experienced drivers (Harvick IIRC) said it was only comparable to concrete-wall hits from early in his career.

That's because the car doesn't absorp the impact, the driver does.
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Shhhh…🤫
You’re not allowed to criticize or question anything NASCAR.
 
donthaveanickname said:
You can't reasonably tell me that you watched Kurt's crash as it happened and expected it to be career-ending. He even said he wasn't back to 100% many months after the crash. If Bowman's wreck at Texas wasn't a minor hit than I don't know what is.
Many drivers stated after wrecks last season that it was the hardest hit they ever took, one of the more experienced drivers (Harvick IIRC) said it was only comparable to concrete-wall hits from early in his career.

That's because the car doesn't absorp the impact, the driver does.
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Yep completely different magnitude of wrecks we're talking about here.
 
StandOnIt said:
Well here you said cost effectiveness doesn't equal safety. Do you have any proof of this?
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Sometimes you can achieve both with minimum give up, so far NASCAR hasn't been able to do that. Hope they do, if they're not going to come off of it.

Unfortunately they have committed to an underpowered car that is too rigid and not absorbing impact that the way it should be despite their own effort to change that, undeniable fact that they will never publicly admit to.

“Always forward” they are supposed to be the gold standard of safety in racing, they set the bar for everyone else. With the amount of time they had to test this car, this should be the safest version we’ve ever seen. Instead we have multiple concussions on mundane impacts and wheels sitting on track waiting to get punted into the stands. While they focus on non-important stuff like adding louvres that no one cares about and mudflaps that catch on fire.

Listen to the driver’s! I wouldn't be surprised if this accelerated Harvick's decision to retire this year. Larson says he got lucky, and he did.








There’s probably a thousand threads that can get laughed off and not complained on, this ain’t one of them. NASCAR has a duty to protect, right now they have sacrificed driver safety for a year and a half in order to bring on this more cost effective spec car charter system, in other words the resistance to change from that is all about money, as usual. Maybe they’ll figure out how to be both, maybe they won’t, in the meantime other's are the one’s at risk, not them.
 
Turtle84 said:
Sometimes you can achieve both with minimum give up, so far NASCAR hasn't been able to do that. Hope they do, if they're not going to come off of it.

Unfortunately they have committed to an underpowered car that is too rigid and not absorbing impact that the way it should be despite their own effort to change that, undeniable fact that they will never publicly admit to.

“Always forward” they are supposed to be the gold standard of safety in racing, they set the bar for everyone else. With the amount of time they had to test this car, this should be the safest version we’ve ever seen. Instead we have multiple concussions on mundane impacts and wheels sitting on track waiting to get punted into the stands. While they focus on non-important stuff like adding louvres that no one cares about and mudflaps that catch on fire.

Listen to the driver’s! I wouldn't be surprised if this accelerated Harvick's decision to retire this year. Larson says he got lucky, and he did.








There’s probably a thousand threads that can get laughed off and not complained on, this ain’t one of them. NASCAR has a duty to protect, right now they have sacrificed driver safety for a year and a half in order to bring on this more cost effective spec car charter system, in other words the resistance to change from that is all about money, as usual. Maybe they’ll figure out how to be both, maybe they won’t, in the meantime other's are the one’s at risk, not them.
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If you have been keeping up, you would know that these problems have been fixed already. Of course you can never make the constant whiners happy with their terminal whataboutthis. Anybody that thinks Nascar was scrimping on safety needs their heads examined.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Did anyone watch Jerry Nadeau’s crash and think the same? TBIs happen in weird ways. If Busch had crashed in the Gen 6, the back end would have absorbed more of the impact so the car would have looked “worse.”

Busch also had 15+ years of Cup racing and likely multiple undiagnosed concussions before NASCAR implemented its concussion protocol. As we also should have learned from Dale Jr, concussions have a bit of a cumulative effect.

Using damage to the car to determine damage to the human is flawed.
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I didn't use damage to the car to determine how hard the impact was. Like I said, the problem with Kurt's and Bowman's crashes last year was that the car didn't absorb much of the impact.
I read Junior's book and he mentioned that he has a history of undiagnosed concussions and that nowadays a driver would certainly not be allowed to race with the symptoms he experienced after Fontana 2002 which is why I totally agree that today's concussion protocols are a good thing.
I also agree that it's possible that Kurt had undiagnosed concussions over the course of his career but that doesn't explain why NextGen crashes feel way harder than before according to the drivers themselves.
The Nature Boy said:
We can ask Dale Jr. how "safe" the Gen 6 was
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Newman would probably say the Gen6 was quite save. At least we didn't see people backing into the wall after a simple spin and be out for months.

And since you brought up the NFL comparison earlier, if NFL introduced a new helmet and concussions spiked, football fans would surely discuss whether that change contributed to the spike or not.
wi_racefan said:
Jr. brought up a good point in that more can be learned and fixed in the #41 car than the #5 car. If you look the #41 didn't absorb much energy as the front wasn't tore up that bad for the impact it took. So maybe the solution to this is a new front clip.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
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When the changes to the rear bumper structure were announced I was wondering why they didn't address the front.
Turtle84 said:
Listen to the driver’s! I wouldn't be surprised if this accelerated Harvick's decision to retire this year.
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Allenbaba pretty much confirmed this when Harvick announced his retirement.
 
KTMLew01 said:
You misspelled accurate.
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Uh no I didn't. People including yourself will go to any lengths to find something negative about the new car. Most haven't ever designed anything in their lives. This car was designed starting with a clean sheet of paper. The car wasn't a redesign of a redesign of a redesign but all new. Considering that it is brand new there have been few problems, but it seems some will continue harping over the very few changes that have already been addressed and fixed. More will continue to come in it's evolution going forward. That is how it works. Nothing is perfect.
 
wi_racefan said:
No but he has raced cars for a year or 2, might have seen a few crashes....................
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NASCAR, after 70ish years of progress making the cars safer & safer, took ALL of that info and just tossed it out the window.

1. 9" Ford straight axle rear end---GONE!
2. Transmision---GONE!
3. Steering linkage and steering box---GONE!
4. Crushable front & rear structure---GONE!

But we got pretty modern wheels and a body that pops right back into shape. I've never built a chassis. But DID "design" the suspension that went on it. Was old Tim Hitt Street Stock (won 2 or 3 Championships) his dad built like they did in 1965. When new owner built new car I corrected camber gain & bump steer & rear anti-squat (chassis is what is now being run in modifieds) when most people hadn't heard of the terms. Driver, which had driven a ton of different classes successfully, said was easiest car to drive he'd ever sat in. Drove a ton with one hand other hand with fingers in window net. Sort of a trolling move. No power steering either.

Championship at two tracks 5 years in a row. Owner of car had to move for work. Closed up shop.

So maybe some of us have "designed" something.
 
KTMLew01 said:
NASCAR, after 70ish years of progress making the cars safer & safer, took ALL of that info and just tossed it out the window.

1. 9" Ford straight axle rear end---GONE!
2. Transmision---GONE!
3. Steering linkage and steering box---GONE!
4. Crushable front & rear structure---GONE!

But we got pretty modern wheels and a body that pops right back into shape. I've never built a chassis. But DID "design" the suspension that went on it. Was old Tim Hitt Street Stock (won 2 or 3 Championships) his dad built like they did in 1965. When new owner built new car I corrected camber gain & bump steer & rear anti-squat (chassis is what is now being run in modifieds) when most people hadn't heard of the terms. Driver, which had driven a ton of different classes successfully, said was easiest car to drive he'd ever sat in. Drove a ton with one hand other hand with fingers in window net. Sort of a trolling move. No power steering either.

Championship at two tracks 5 years in a row. Owner of car had to move for work. Closed up shop.

So maybe some of us have "designed" something.
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Are you ok?
 
KTMLew01 said:
NASCAR, after 70ish years of progress making the cars safer & safer, took ALL of that info and just tossed it out the window.

1. 9" Ford straight axle rear end---GONE!
2. Transmision---GONE!
3. Steering linkage and steering box---GONE!
4. Crushable front & rear structure---GONE!

But we got pretty modern wheels and a body that pops right back into shape. I've never built a chassis. But DID "design" the suspension that went on it. Was old Tim Hitt Street Stock (won 2 or 3 Championships) his dad built like they did in 1965. When new owner built new car I corrected camber gain & bump steer & rear anti-squat (chassis is what is now being run in modifieds) when most people hadn't heard of the terms. Driver, which had driven a ton of different classes successfully, said was easiest car to drive he'd ever sat in. Drove a ton with one hand other hand with fingers in window net. Sort of a trolling move. No power steering either.

Championship at two tracks 5 years in a row. Owner of car had to move for work. Closed up shop.

So maybe some of us have "designed" something.
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Oh I know all about that old technology lol. BTW they have been racing that old technology that used truck arms and a 9" Ford for dump truck handling for 50 years. You need to get up to speed.
 
StandOnIt said:
I paid plenty for my design degree, Jr is lucky to get out of high school and I'm willing to bet he knows little about designing anything. What about yourself, who is paying you to deathbed everything?
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What color drapes should I get for my living room? I have Fossil smoke porcelain tile, Behr Dynasty Silver Feather on one wall and Behr Blank Canvas on the others. The Silver Feather has celadon green undertones.
TIA
 
BobbyFord said:
What color drapes should I get for my living room? I have Fossil smoke porcelain tile, Behr Dynasty Silver Feather on one wall and Behr Blank Canvas on the others. The Silver Feather has celadon green undertones.
TIA
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Use a #4-40 UNC-3A .5 color and you will be fine
 
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