NASCAR’s personality problem

Speedbowl14 said:
The "issue" is the decline of asphalt oval racing as a whole, imo. If Tony Stewart, Dale Jr, of Jeff Gordon did a one-off in Cup next season in top tier equipment I doubt it would move the attendance or viewership needle more than a few single digit percentage points.

Heck Jimmie freaking Johnson raced this year (ok sure, in the back of the pack) and it was a massive nothingburger, and I bet it would've still been had he run well.
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Jimmie Johnson's a bad example though. In a lot of ways, you can point to him as one of the main causes for the decline. People didn't just dislike JJ because of his dominance, they didn't like him because he was BORING. The only times you saw any personality from him was in TV commercials.

He should've been a household name, because his Super Jimmie routine began at the peak of NASCAR's popularity.

Unfortunately, he also came in at the time when corporate sponsors and PR reps were at their worst. I will never, ever, ever forget Jimmie Johnson signing autographs and some PR girl from Chevy coming up, grabbing a diecast out of my hands and throwing it on the ground and grabbing hero cards from fans and throwing them.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The place was gonna have to be repaved, and we were going to get at least 10 years of bad racing once it was.
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Can't agree totally. By divine accident the new car excels on the larger tracks. It's possible but impossible to prove that the car would do well at California. But nobody would come and the expenses to keep the track were horrendous. It's a business. Intellect over the emotions.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Jimmie Johnson's a bad example though. In a lot of ways, you can point to him as one of the main causes for the decline. People didn't just dislike JJ because of his dominance, they didn't like him because he was BORING. The only times you saw any personality from him was in TV commercials.

He should've been a household name, because his Super Jimmie routine began at the peak of NASCAR's popularity.

Unfortunately, he also came in at the time when corporate sponsors and PR reps were at their worst. I will never, ever, ever forget Jimmie Johnson signing autographs and some PR girl from Chevy coming up, grabbing a diecast out of my hands and throwing it on the ground and grabbing hero cards from fans and throwing them.
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The dominance was a result of NASCAR turning a blind eye to HMS cheating. Or so it would be perceived by the average fan. I’m not saying that is what happened.
Jimmie quit winning when laser came in; is that coincidence or cause? I don’t know.
Jimmie hasn’t been successful in any endeavor since his departure from NASCAR.
 
BobbyFord said:
The dominance was a result of NASCAR turning a blind eye to HMS cheating. Or so it would be perceived by the average fan. I’m not saying that is what happened.
Jimmie quit winning when laser came in; is that coincidence or cause? I don’t know.
Jimmie hasn’t been successful in any endeavor since his departure from NASCAR.
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“They’re cheating” is the common reflexive reaction to fans when a team dominates in a sport.

NASCAR changed the points system countless times during JJ’s reign of terror, trying to Jimmie-proof it.

The two most radical changes since the inception of a postseason came after Jimmie Johnson championships and there literally has not been a single change to the format since 2017.

It was in NASCAR’s best interests for Dale Jr to win a championship, not JJ.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
“They’re cheating” is the common reflexive reaction to fans when a team dominates in a sport.

NASCAR changed the points system countless times during JJ’s reign of terror, trying to Jimmie-proof it.

The two most radical changes since the inception of a postseason came after Jimmie Johnson championships and there literally has not been a single change to the format since 2017.

It was in NASCAR’s best interests for Dale Jr to win a championship, not JJ.
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So why they losing seats?
 
BobbyFord said:
So why they losing seats?
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Because NASCAR overbuilt during the boom period (including when your personal Darlington was built). It was a fad and the fad ended. It’s a right sizing.

Were you a fan before Fontana opened or are you one of those new fans we got in the late 90s?
 
There is no one thing that is a cause or a cure. I think the sport has maintained it‘s relevance better than some would think. There is ebb and flow due to several key factors IMO, which are in order of impact:
1 - Economic Conditions: majority of NASCAR fans are middle class so bad economy/job situation will dial back attendance. Doesn’t impact TV.
2 - Driver Personalities/Scenarios: Driver appeal is still very important. Rivalries, feuds, heroes and villains matter. Example - Ross Chastain’s recent contributions to this cannot be overemphasized. NASCAR‘S response via chapping from the felon was a corporate smear that takes the air out of the ball. Hambone is a total AH but plays the villain role like a 7th grade understudy. As for most drivers they are forced to rep themselves like cardboard cutouts. Boring. Need to be encouraged to be themselves, and if they‘re just dull, so be it. Better than trying to be a fake actor.
3 - Drop Off In Car Culture: This is a disease of the young, which is limiting the embrace of racing within that generation.
4 - Product Quality: Most important for dedicated fans. Bad racing, tracks, lack of passing, etc. Purists appreciate racing the track, but most fans want action. Hence the many efforts ongoing by NASCAR trying to adjust the aero and create jousting action.
 
Conover said:
There is no one thing that is a cause or a cure. I think the sport has maintained it‘s relevance better than some would think. There is ebb and flow due to several key factors IMO, which are in order of impact:
1 - Economic Conditions: majority of NASCAR fans are middle class so bad economy/job situation will dial back attendance. Doesn’t impact TV.
2 - Driver Personalities/Scenarios: Driver appeal is still very important. Rivalries, feuds, heroes and villains matter. Example - Ross Chastain’s recent contributions to this cannot be overemphasized. NASCAR‘S response via chapping from the felon was a corporate smear that takes the air out of the ball. Hambone is a total AH but plays the villain role like a 7th grade understudy. As for most drivers they are forced to rep themselves like cardboard cutouts. Boring. Need to be encouraged to be themselves, and if they‘re just dull, so be it. Better than trying to be a fake actor.
3 - Drop Off In Car Culture: This is a disease of the young, which is limiting the embrace of racing within that generation.
4 - Product Quality: Most important for dedicated fans. Bad racing, tracks, lack of passing, etc. Purists appreciate racing the track, but most fans want action. Hence the many efforts ongoing by NASCAR trying to adjust the aero and create jousting action.
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nascar adjusted the aero that allowed this crap that we endure.
They control everything. They eliminate tracks that we enjoy, they feed us the crap they want us to eat.
They continue to eliminate seating.
 
And fools will ask, “Why do you still watch?”
It’s because nobody else has stock car racing. That doesn’t mean that what we see is good. It means that it’s all that we have.
 
BobbyFord said:
nascar adjusted the aero that allowed this crap that we endure.
They control everything. They eliminate tracks that we enjoy, they feed us the crap they want us to eat.
They continue to eliminate seating.
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Indeed, the aero was altered to combat cars lifting on high speed tracks into savage wrecks. It eventually helped, but also messed up a lot in the process.
 
In my view,I think this thread is a much to do about nothing. As a kid I was always drawn to racing for the speed aspect of it, the cup cars of the late 80’s and early 90’s were knarly beasts, that were tamed by hero’s who were larger than life. The drivers supreme driving talent were what made them hero’s, everything else just kind of followed. I never cared much for “driver personality”, the racing aspect hooked me. A lot of the world is ending here and I can’t figure why. A new tv deal is signed, a street race was a success, we’re getting a short track on the west coast, an iconic track was literally raised from the dead, a fan favorite just won the Cup…there’s a lot of good happening now. I think raising the HP can attract the new fans you’re searching for but car culture in kids isn’t what it was when I was growing up and really isn’t even when my dad was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s so maybe raising speed isn’t it but I think it’d be a start.
 
Conover said:
3 - Drop Off In Car Culture: This is a disease of the young, which is limiting the embrace of racing within that generation.
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This is why NASCAR needs to be more about the personalities themselves and not the cars. F1's having no problem thriving in spite of this. And people who became fans in the 90s and 2000s became fans of Dale Earnhardt, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Kasey Kahne. They were fans of the drivers, not the cars.

There are problems with the car culture itself that contribute to its decline.

Cars have become a very expensive necessity. At the same time, a lot of people in urban areas not only don't drive cars, but there are A LOT of people in these areas who want to ban cars and force public transit.

For people who do like vehicles, they don't make these things to where the average person can work on them anymore. The extent of modifications you'll see is the installation of an amplifier and subwoofer, shiny rims, Pirelli or Falken tires, and a Borla dual-exhaust system.

As for the car culture itself: Too much of today's car culture is all about "being conservative," or is limited solely to "If you don't have a V8 with a manual transmission, you're a puss."
 
Another point the video made, these drivers have different paint schemes every week.

You look at the past, and these drivers had paint schemes that were iconic and were instantly associated with a driver. And often times, people would become a fan of a driver BECAUSE of their paint scheme.

Dale Earnhardt had the black #3. Jeff Gordon and the rainbow #24, followed by years of the orange and blue. Mark Martin ran the red, white and blue Valvoline #6 (and black Winn-Dixie #60) for many years. Dale Jr was always associated with the red #8 Budweiser car, before going to Hendrick. Jimmie Johnson's silver and blue #48.

We don't have that anymore.
 
I also think that "household names" are becoming harder and harder to come by, in all areas of society. In the era of personalized information/entertainment, you rarely hear about things outside of your own little world. It's not like we still have 30ish TV channels, a couple dozen radio stations, and a few magazine subscriptions to entertain us. I cannot think of a "household name" in our society today outside of Biden, Trump, and Taylor Swift. I truly believe that if 100 Americans were polled today, those would be the only three names that at least 95 respondents would recognize.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
I also think that "household names" are becoming harder and harder to come by, in all areas of society. In the era of personalized information/entertainment, you rarely hear about things outside of your own little world. It's not like we still have 30ish TV channels, a couple dozen radio stations, and a few magazine subscriptions to entertain us. I cannot think of a "household name" in our society today outside of Biden, Trump, and Taylor Swift. I truly believe that if 100 Americans were polled today, those would be the only three names that at least 95 respondents would recognize.
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I disagree.

There was just a huge media and social media frenzy over Shohei Ohtani, and baseball's supposedly on some kind of death bed.

I don't watch NBA Basketball at all, and I know who Lebron James, Steph Curry, Zion Williamson and Kevin Durant are.

Social media can create household names, or turn movies into blockbusters. The Sharknado movies became pop culture sensations because of social media. I saw "Everything Everywhere All At Once" (best movie in decades) because of the social media buzz. Taylor Tomlinson, who is taking over one of CBS' late night shows, became a sensation because of TikTok. TikTok stars are landing roles in movies and shows, and selling out concerts because they became overnight sensations.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I disagree.

With the exception of a handful, the races shouldn't be longer than three hours to start with.

TV coverage matters here too. I, a lifelong, die-hard NASCAR fan, find my attention span shortened dramatically when the races are on Fox Sports because their coverage is a mess and the races are hard to follow.

ESPN has commercial-free coverage of F1, which helps a lot. It's easier to follow a race when you don't have commercial breaks every 3-5 minutes.
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I have never bought into the attention span narrative. Ever. It's BS. We say kids have shortened attention spans....ever watched a kid spend all day on a video game?
 
Conover said:
There is no one thing that is a cause or a cure. I think the sport has maintained it‘s relevance better than some would think. There is ebb and flow due to several key factors IMO, which are in order of impact:
1 - Economic Conditions: majority of NASCAR fans are middle class so bad economy/job situation will dial back attendance. Doesn’t impact TV.
2 - Driver Personalities/Scenarios: Driver appeal is still very important. Rivalries, feuds, heroes and villains matter. Example - Ross Chastain’s recent contributions to this cannot be overemphasized. NASCAR‘S response via chapping from the felon was a corporate smear that takes the air out of the ball. Hambone is a total AH but plays the villain role like a 7th grade understudy. As for most drivers they are forced to rep themselves like cardboard cutouts. Boring. Need to be encouraged to be themselves, and if they‘re just dull, so be it. Better than trying to be a fake actor.
3 - Drop Off In Car Culture: This is a disease of the young, which is limiting the embrace of racing within that generation.
4 - Product Quality: Most important for dedicated fans. Bad racing, tracks, lack of passing, etc. Purists appreciate racing the track, but most fans want action. Hence the many efforts ongoing by NASCAR trying to adjust the aero and create jousting action.
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#3 cannot be underestimated. NASCAR races cars. If the number of car enthusiasts is dwindling, so too will the fanbase.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
In my view,I think this thread is a much to do about nothing. As a kid I was always drawn to racing for the speed aspect of it, the cup cars of the late 80’s and early 90’s were knarly beasts, that were tamed by hero’s who were larger than life. The drivers supreme driving talent were what made them hero’s, everything else just kind of followed. I never cared much for “driver personality”, the racing aspect hooked me. A lot of the world is ending here and I can’t figure why. A new tv deal is signed, a street race was a success, we’re getting a short track on the west coast, an iconic track was literally raised from the dead, a fan favorite just won the Cup…there’s a lot of good happening now. I think raising the HP can attract the new fans you’re searching for but car culture in kids isn’t what it was when I was growing up and really isn’t even when my dad was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s so maybe raising speed isn’t it but I think it’d be a start.
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Bravo! I couldn't have said it any better, thank you.
 
Revman said:
#3 cannot be underestimated. NASCAR races cars. If the number of car enthusiasts is dwindling, so too will the fanbase.
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Among the dozens of NASCAR fans I've known over the years, in multiple states, none were gearheads. That includes me. I can't tell a camshaft from John Shaft, and have never attempted an automotive task more complicated than changing the oil, but that didn't keep me from being attracted to the action.

For me, it was never the makes and models, and I barely care what these guys do or say when they're not in the cars. What they can do with the cars when they're on the track is what got me and keeps me.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
There was just a huge media and social media frenzy over Shohei Ohtani, and baseball's supposedly on some kind of death bed.

I don't watch NBA Basketball at all, and I know who Lebron James, Steph Curry, Zion Williamson and Kevin Durant are.
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They got the attention in the first place because they're good at what they do. If there's no talent behind the popularity, we wind up with 50+ pages of Deegan - socially popular but you wouldn't want to watch the person doing (what's supposedly) the primary job.
 
2005-2006 were the two highest rated and attended years in NASCAR’s history. To me it started with the COT. That car ran some people off. Then the crash of 2008 made it harder for people to afford to go to the track. Jimmie winning 5 in a row probably ran some people off. Then, it seemed like NASCAR stabilized from like 2010-2013. Attendance and viewership wasn’t drastically dropping anymore. 2014 introducing the elimination format, and the subsequent star drivers retiring and walking away the next 5 years, along with the reductions in horsepower in 2019 drove away more people. It’s not just one thing, it’s a host of them.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Danica Patrick's decision to go NASCAR racing.

The ARCA race she ran got more viewers on SPEED Channel than many of today's Cup Series races get.

The only times, the past few years, I've seen NASCAR get mainstream attention was Ryan Newman's crash, Kyle Larson dropping the n-word, the Bubba Wallace noose incident, and the Hail Melon.
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None of those incidents got mainstream attention in the NYC area.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Among the dozens of NASCAR fans I've known over the years, in multiple states, none were gearheads. That includes me. I can't tell a camshaft from John Shaft, and have never attempted an automotive task more complicated than changing the oil, but that didn't keep me from being attracted to the action.

For me, it was never the makes and models, and I barely care what these guys do or say when they're not in the cars. What they can do with the cars when they're on the track is what got me and keeps me.
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Nobody said anything about being a gearhead--I am the farthest thing from that.....but an appreciation/passion for cars. Understanding the technological marvels these things are is a missed opportunity for the sport right now. It separates this sport from the others, and we are missing it. I am right with you about the drivers, but I am in awe of how inch perfect they are when handling these things.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The existence of Auto Club Speedway pissed off old school fans more than new school fans. When NASCAR took the Southern 500 off the schedule for Fontana, it was literally one of the top news stories in the country.
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What country? The Confederate states of America? Because outside of the south nobody cared or even knew.
 
The Nature Boy said:
People talk about baseball "dying" but the media was literally obsessed with where Shohei Ohtani was going to sign and it was breaking news everywhere. When was the last time a NASCAR free agency attracted even a fraction of that attention? Dale Jr.?



People want to watch people to whom they can relate and/or idolize.
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....and manufacturers can use those drivers to promote their products...but they don't as much as they once did for some reason...."I love love."
 
The Nature Boy said:
Support local short tracks. NASCAR isn’t your only option.
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This will piss some off, but those cars don't interest me.....I watch very little truck racing since they went spec......and the Xfinity cars now look old. It's about the cars for me.
 
Revman said:
This will piss some off, but those cars don't interest me.....I watch very little truck racing since they went spec......and the Xfinity cars now look old. It's about the cars for me.
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I am actually right there with you. I live only a few miles from a nationally known short track that Ken Squire used to own and in fact several cup drivers have raced there recently in the past few years including Tiny Stewart, Kyle Busch Brad K and Clint B. People around here look at me like I am nuts when I tell them I have not been there since I was a kid and really have no interest in going there. I have to have a vested interest in a driver and I just don't. SRX was supposed to be there last season but it was cancelled because of major flooding in our region. I think they are supposed to come this year now. I might go for that.
 
Again, the personality of this sport needs to be an appreciation for the technology/cars, and the talents of the drivers who can drive them inch perfect. Let's bring RaceView back so fans can see what drivers are doing. Let's get the OEMs pushing their products through the drivers. I have said this before, and I will say it again....If you talk about the sport's most popular driver without talking about what he drives, you are asking the average sports fan to compare him to other athletes like Lebron James. Chase Elliott is nothing in terms of athletic ability compare to Lebron....but if you put both of them in cars going 180 mph, Lebron has no shot. This is the sport's personality IMO.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I disagree.

There was just a huge media and social media frenzy over Shohei Ohtani, and baseball's supposedly on some kind of death bed.

I don't watch NBA Basketball at all, and I know who Lebron James, Steph Curry, Zion Williamson and Kevin Durant are.

Social media can create household names, or turn movies into blockbusters. The Sharknado movies became pop culture sensations because of social media. I saw "Everything Everywhere All At Once" (best movie in decades) because of the social media buzz. Taylor Tomlinson, who is taking over one of CBS' late night shows, became a sensation because of TikTok. TikTok stars are landing roles in movies and shows, and selling out concerts because they became overnight sensations.
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Andy I'm a bit younger than you and I have no idea what/who the references in red are.

There is no such thing as "mainstream" anymore, in my opinion.
 
Andy....Great offseason topic. Thank you. I really believe that this hits to the heart of where the sport is....not saying good or bad....just where it is. When I sit back, and look at the spot as objectively as I can (I am far from objective), I don't know what it is, but I know what it could be. If this was all about the drivers, why do we have OEMs? We need a bigger presence there. When Toyota came, they cited data that 30% of buyers considered NASCAR as influencing their buying decision. That is a big number. I think that the Next Gen is a perfect solution honestly. Brand identity with POTENTIAL cost containment. I absolutely went nuts when they blurred the dash on the in car cams....let us in....let us watch the drivers wheel these things--this is the heart of NASCAR. Bring back RaceView so that we can look at lines, deltas, etc.....kind of bring us into the ****pit. I am appreciative for the radios. Rambling.....but this sport is so damn dynamic....so many angles.....yet we seem to settle on drivers and their personal opinions/interests.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
NASCAR's actually doing a good job walking this tightrope. The older fans aren't gonna be happy no matter what. But, along with adding Los Angeles and Chicago, NASCAR's gone back to North Wilkesboro, is committed to returning to Fairgrounds Speedway Nashville, and appears destined to return to Rockingham.

Older fans are stuck in their ways. For them, the positive of going to Wilkesboro and doubling down on Chase Elliott as the face of the sport is negated by going to Chicago and Los Angeles.

Whether it's here or on social media, you'll see older fans explain all the time that NASCAR should NOT try to get newer fans and need to cater exclusively to keeping them. That attitude is what NASCAR's not going to be able to overcome anytime soon.

Just look at the feedback to the new TV deal.
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Please expand on this mouthful, Mr. Know It All. Whether it's here or on social media, you'll see older fans explain all the time that NASCAR should NOT try to get newer fans and need to cater exclusively to keeping them.
 
sdj said:
Please expand on this mouthful, Mr. Know It All. Whether it's here or on social media, you'll see older fans explain all the time that NASCAR should NOT try to get newer fans and need to cater exclusively to keeping them.
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I'll chime in.....but not on the BS directed toward Andy.......Older fans want it the way it was---whatever it was, and resent anything that resembles an attempt to the new technologically driven younger/newer fan. They feel like it is their party, and that party is being crashed by a bunch of younger kids who don't have the investment/knowledge that they do. I am over-generalizing, but I think this is the angle here.
 
sdj said:
Please expand on this mouthful, Mr. Know It All. Whether it's here or on social media, you'll see older fans explain all the time that NASCAR should NOT try to get newer fans and need to cater exclusively to keeping them.
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Anytime NASCAR tries to do something to bring in new fans, older fans complain about it.

Los Angeles, Chicago, Amazon, WB Discovery ... all very good examples.

"Boomers" were literally all over the comments sections of NASCAR social media pages, re: Chicago, explaining that they forgot where they came from and need to go back to North Wilkesboro (NASCAR literally went back to North Wilkesboro just a couple months prior), NASCAR died when Dale died, NASCAR needs to get its old fans back, older people have all the money anyway, and so on.

If NASCAR does not start establishing a fanbase for the future, there is no future. People who are in their 70s and 80s now, they aren't gonna live forever.
 
Saw this video along with the Slapshoes video about "NASCAR's legitimacy problem". The two things are inter-related but also semi-exclusive in terms of causes. My personal take is that I accept that NASCAR today is not geared to me, but it would be absolutely insane for me to suggest that NASCAR is doomed in some way when they just pulled a major TV deal. That doesn't mean NASCAR can't wind up in a very bad place soon: some folks are absolutely convinced that Jim France can eliminate charters at the end of next year and nothing will change as though the last 40 years didn't happen and we're back at opening weekend of Talladega. That doesn't mean that pavement oval racing at the short track level is going to be healthy in 5 years if the costs continue to rise at a rate greater than inflation and purse winnings. But the NASCAR plane has a lot of room to land safely and turn things around.

Speedbowl is absolutely correct: consider for a moment who are the chart topping pop artists of the present day and then go try to find their songs being earworms almost anywhere outside the confines of social media. I know Billie Ellish exists, but hell if I can name a single one of her songs. You don't need to believe me on this because believing facts is different from facts being true. Doubt me? OK. Floracing is a co-owner of the High Limit Racing Series, Kyle Larson and Brad Sweet's new sprint car series competing with the World of Outlaws. They are introducing revenue sharing for streaming revenue. Everything I just said about High Limit was impossible 15 years ago and highly improbable 10 years ago, but is here now and exists solely because the media environment permits companies and advertisers to pinpoint their desired audiences to an almost atomic level. There are people today in sprint car racing making more money in take home than people in Cup and Xfinity, and this would only grow those numbers. That is basically unthinkable by the economics of the early 2000s, but entirely rational by the economics of the late 1970s. Which then was the deviation from the norm?
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Andy I'm a bit younger than you and I have no idea what/who the references in red are.

There is no such thing as "mainstream" anymore, in my opinion.
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Shohei Ohtani was the most discussed topic of the weekend because of the $700 MILLION deal he signed with the Los Angeles Dodgers baseball club.

Zion Williamson is a forward for the New Orleans Pelicans NBA team and was the most dynamic star when he was in college playing for Duke.

Everything Everywhere All At Once is THE most awarded movie in the history of cinema. With a low budget and very little advertising in the United States, it became a sensation last spring through social media, aided by the fact that it's quite possibly one of the greatest movies ever made.

Taylor Tomlinson is a stand-up comedian who rose to prominence through TikTok and is now taking over the CBS late-night timeslot formerly occupied by James Corden.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Anytime NASCAR tries to do something to bring in new fans, older fans complain about it.

Los Angeles, Chicago, Amazon, WB Discovery ... all very good examples.

"Boomers" were literally all over the comments sections of NASCAR social media pages, re: Chicago, explaining that they forgot where they came from and need to go back to North Wilkesboro (NASCAR literally went back to North Wilkesboro just a couple months prior), NASCAR died when Dale died, NASCAR needs to get its old fans back, older people have all the money anyway, and so on.

If NASCAR does not start establishing a fanbase for the future, there is no future. People who are in their 70s and 80s now, they aren't gonna live forever.
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I know a smidge about pro wrestling and will make this comparison: in 1992, Vince McMahon and the WWF were embroiled in scandal around the sale of steroids and a felony trial in which Vince managed to duck a federal conviction. In response to this, the WWF made it a focus to double down on kids by presenting a very safe-for-families and cartoony product. The people who recall this fondly are all people who were children at the time, and the nature of what got them into wrestling has had some significant knock on effects in terms of what they would come to expect from the fake fighting folks in the subsequent years since. WWE, as it is known now:

-just merged with the UFC (which is sorta like the WWE, except *real* and immediately exposes the nature of pro wrestling's worked state by existing) to form TKO,
-Vince was sent packing with a forced buyout to the tune of 10 figures,
-got a great TV rights package
-as well as substantial international investment from Saudi Arabia (which they now consider "home" even though much of their roster can't drive a car legally there)

WWE attendance and TV ratings are now trending upwards after, and stop me if you've heard this before, roughly 20 consecutive years of declining fortunes. They still reach a substantially smaller audience than pro wrestling as a whole did In America in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, or any other year through 2001, but the audience is more greatly and internationally dispersed and the nature of the business has become more about media distribution rights than ticket sales (for which they are cutting back live events to save on costs). Lots of people who loved pro wrestling at some point have stopped watching because it doesn't appeal to them anymore and is more in line with the cartoony WWF stuff of the early 90s than traditional southern wrestling of the 80s or puroresu from the mid 90s or lucha libre from literally ever. Or even territory era WWF with it's reliance on strong face champions. They're all left out in the cold. Is the WWE really building an audience or managing a decline? NASCAR isn't much different.
 
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