NASCAR’s personality problem

[Naitch]

Jeff Gordon vs. Dale Earnhardt is an all-time great sports rivalry that I'm honestly surprised hasn't been the subject of theatrical movies yet. Although, in a way, Days of Thunder was something of a precursor to that.

It's going to be very hard to recapture the magic that rivalry had. But it does not help when rivalries are squashed quickly by NASCAR's brass and by Rick Hendrick.

Dale Earnhardt was also a once in a generation marketing genius who convinced Gordon to play it up. The irony is that Gordon is Hendrick's right hand man and has seemingly forgotten how Earnhardt's ideas benefited his career. Earnhardt fans HATED Gordon and vice versa, it was a great time to be a fan. Instead of shutting down Ross, Hendrick should have told his drivers to lean into the rivalry. People like drama and rivalries are an inherent part of sport.

Like him or not (and I dislike him in a "love to hate" kind of not), Kyle Busch was good for the sport because he gave fans a villain to root against and he leaned into it.

 

[StandOnIt]

Like him or not (and I dislike him in a "love to hate" kind of not), Kyle Busch was good for the sport because he gave fans a villain to root against and he leaned into it.

Eh, more where that came from.

 

[virtualbalboa]

The problem for NASCAR (and ironically NASCAR promotes this for some reason) is that "grassroots fans" are trending towards open wheel dirt racing, which does nothing to promote stock car racing.

There's late model racing happening around the country but you wouldn't know it because guys like Kyle Larson are getting attention for running an entirely different discipline of racing. If NASCAR wants to attract fans, they need to help tracks engage fans and stop promoting open wheel. Stock car racing doesn't have a strong grassroots right now. Look at this forum even, the open wheel stuff gets more attention, despite the NASCAR section being the most popular.

If NASCAR wants to hook young fans, they (and their drivers) need to do more to support the grassroots of the sport. It might be cost prohibitive for a guy in a small town to take his family to a NASCAR race, but he can likely afford the local short track. If a kid watches a late model race, he's more likely to be into NASCAR because the disciplines are so similar.

Sprint car racing gets more attention because the races are a bigger deal. The Snowball Derby pays $35K to win. High Bank Nationals at Husets paid $250K to win. I don't think we have a big fanbase of dirt late models on this site, but I assure you that the fanbase for that is probably even larger. You can make more money winning with the Hunt The Front Super Late Model Series on dirt than winning the biggest pavement late model races. You look at the payouts for XR Super Series or Castrol Series or Lucas Oil Series or Super DIRTCar and then you look at ARCA or NASCAR-sanctioned late model events and it is laughable.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Sprint car racing gets more attention because the races are a bigger deal. The Snowball Derby pays $35K to win. High Bank Nationals at Husets paid $250K to win. I don't think we have a big fanbase of dirt late models on this site, but I assure you that the fanbase for that is probably even larger. You can make more money winning with the Hunt The Front Super Late Model Series on dirt than winning the biggest pavement late model races. You look at the payouts for XR Super Series or Castrol Series or Lucas Oil Series or Super DIRTCar and then you look at ARCA or NASCAR-sanctioned late model events and it is laughable.

Okay, what's the supposed appeal of big payouts? Race for $250K, $25K, or $25 in McD's gift cards; it's all the same to me when I'm not getting any of it.

Thanks!

 

[HoneyBadger]

Dale Earnhardt was also a once in a generation marketing genius who convinced Gordon to play it up. The irony is that Gordon is Hendrick's right hand man and has seemingly forgotten how Earnhardt's ideas benefited his career. Earnhardt fans HATED Gordon and vice versa, it was a great time to be a fan.

They both benefitted from that rivalry, and the sport benefitted as a whole.

As for marketing and media, Dale Earnhardt benefitted a lot from Darrell Waltrip. Waltrip knew how to play it up.

Earnhardt also had a ton of charisma and was well-liked by his peers and the media - and not just the racing media. Dude was friends with Brian Williams.

Like him or not (and I dislike him in a "love to hate" kind of not), Kyle Busch was good for the sport because he gave fans a villain to root against and he leaned into it.

As much as fans hate Joe Gibbs Racing, I am so glad they let their drivers be themselves over there. Denny Hamlin is a USDA-certified organic a**hole a lot of times, but damn is it entertaining. And it's entertaining to watch people root against him.

 

[virtualbalboa]

Like him or not (and I dislike him in a "love to hate" kind of not), Kyle Busch was good for the sport because he gave fans a villain to root against and he leaned into it.

Here's a controversial opinion: Kyle Busch being the villain stunted NASCAR's capacity to grow because he was sponsored by M&Ms. Seriously. How can you look tough and badass wearing a jacket with a comic sans number and the red/green M&Ms doing a Laurel and Hardy routine? If they actually let his primary sponsor put weed leaves all over the car like they want, his merch would fly off the shelves.

 

[Naitch]

Sprint car racing gets more attention because the races are a bigger deal. The Snowball Derby pays $35K to win. High Bank Nationals at Husets paid $250K to win. You can make more money winning with the Hunt The Front Super Late Model Series on dirt. I don't think we have a big fanbase of dirt late models on this site, but I assure you that the fanbase for that is probably even larger. You look at the payouts for XR Super Series or Castrol Series or Lucas Oil Series or Super DIRTCar and then you look at ARCA or NASCAR-sanctioned late model events and it is laughable.

NASCAR needs to pour more money into grassroots asphalt racing. That's the frank reality of it. You build fans at the local level. For example, high school and college football fans help build the NFL fanbase and minor league baseball helps build the MLB fanbase. Also, investing more in the grassroots would help us avoid guys getting to the Truck Series without a base level understanding of how to put together a race.

It may be cost prohibitive to take your family of four to a NASCAR Cup race, especially if you live hours from a big track. However, you can take them to your local short track at a much lower price point. I would also take the Truck Series back to its original purpose, racing short tracks around the country. A Truck Series race at the local half mile would provide a huge boost in publicity, which will mean more asses in the seats.

As much as fans hate Joe Gibbs Racing, I am so glad they let their drivers be themselves over there. Denny Hamlin is a USDA-certified organic a**hole a lot of times, but damn is it entertaining. And it's entertaining to watch people root against him.

I think it helps that Coach Gibbs feuded with "America's Team" so he was kind of used to being a heat shield.

 

[virtualbalboa]

Okay, what's the supposed appeal of big payouts?

Big money attracts drivers and fans alike because it is an easy to sell narrative. I understand that winning a quarter million dollars is meaningful. I don't inherently understand the value of winning the Snowball Derby, especially if the Snowball Derby is a money loser for participants. Then it's just a really expensive pro-am thing and who cares about that?

 

[StandOnIt]

The problem for NASCAR (and ironically NASCAR promotes this for some reason) is that "grassroots fans" are trending towards open wheel dirt racing, which does nothing to promote stock car racing.

There's late model racing happening around the country but you wouldn't know it because guys like Kyle Larson are getting attention for running an entirely different discipline of racing. If NASCAR wants to attract fans, they need to help tracks engage fans and stop promoting open wheel. Stock car racing doesn't have a strong grassroots right now. Look at this forum even, the open wheel stuff gets more attention, despite the NASCAR section being the most popular.

If NASCAR wants to hook young fans, they (and their drivers) need to do more to support the grassroots of the sport. It might be cost prohibitive for a guy in a small town to take his family to a NASCAR race, but he can likely afford the local short track. If a kid watches a late model race, he's more likely to be into NASCAR because the disciplines are so similar.

Tell ya what, when there is a late model race that pays a million to win or typically pays 50 thousand like many dirt races around the country let me know. Nobody in their right mind if they are trying to make a living is looking at late model pavement racing. Dale Jr., Harvick, and Burton had to infuse some prize money to keep it alive. Nascar even supports it, and if it wasn't for Flo, nobody knows about it or who races in it except a few on the east coast. 211 entries so far for the Chili bowl, over 1500 entries for the Tulsa shootout. Some need to wake the F up.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

How can you look tough and badass wearing a jacket with a comic sans number and the red/green M&Ms doing a Laurel and Hardy routine?

When you're REALLY a tough badass, it doesn't matter what you wear.

The previous statement should not be interpreted as saying KyBu really is a tough badass; only that the badass makes the clothes, not the other way around.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

As much as fans hate Joe Gibbs Racing, I am so glad they let their drivers be themselves over there.

Going back to Tony. I often wondered why Joe didn't pay for the extended warranty on all those anger management classes Tony took.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Sprint car racing gets more attention because the races are a bigger deal. The Snowball Derby pays $35K to win. High Bank Nationals at Husets paid $250K to win. I don't think we have a big fanbase of dirt late models on this site, but I assure you that the fanbase for that is probably even larger. You can make more money winning with the Hunt The Front Super Late Model Series on dirt than winning the biggest pavement late model races. You look at the payouts for XR Super Series or Castrol Series or Lucas Oil Series or Super DIRTCar and then you look at ARCA or NASCAR-sanctioned late model events and it is laughable.

Pavement short track racing is the most self-mutilating industry.

Racers talk about needing higher purses all the time, but they don't actually bring more cars.

Southern National held a $50,000-to-win Late Model Stock Car race last year, and they got just as many cars this year paying $15,000 to win.

New River had a $20,000-to-win race and only got 13 cars, while 30+ cars raced for a $750-to-win purse. Carteret County had a Legend Car race a few months ago paying an unprecedented $3,000 to win and got seven cars.

What asphalt racers are getting big on is the start money. They'd rather see races pay $5,000 to win and $1,500 to start than have races paying $20,000 to win and $750 or $1,000 to start.

After the New River race, Landon Huffman said something to the effect of how racers are gonna lose the opportunity to race for big money if they don't show up when it's offered. And he's right. Where is the incentive for any track to throw that kind of money out there?

The Snowball Derby could pay $300 to win and they'd still get a huge field. In fact, they increased their purse and their car counts dropped.

In asphalt racing, you'll have guys back out of a race because of the purse, because they're afraid of getting their **** torn up. Which is a valid concern with how many of these kids race now.

 

[virtualbalboa]

When you're REALLY a tough badass, it doesn't matter what you wear.

The previous statement should not be interpreted as saying KyBu really is a tough badass; only that the badass makes the clothes, not the other way around.

That's not reality though. Even the Dale/Jeff Gordon feud inherently needed the cars to match their perception ("Rainbow Warriors" vs. "Man in Black"). An all yellow car covered in candy is not gonna make people want to wear your stuff if you're the man wearing the black hat.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Going back to Tony. I often wondered why Joe didn't pay for the extended warranty on all those anger management classes Tony took.

Tony Stewart's antics were good for the sport.

He really needed to release a "Tony Stewart's Greatest Hits" album featuring his best interviews. Talladega 2012 at the top of the list.

 

[HoneyBadger]

That's not reality though. Even the Dale/Jeff Gordon feud inherently needed the cars to match their perception ("Rainbow Warriors" vs. "Man in Black"). An all yellow car covered in candy is not gonna make people want to wear your stuff if you're the man wearing the black hat.

Goes back to the point about today's revolving door of paint schemes in general.

I agree to a point about Kyle Busch. But, nowadays, he wouldn't even have the yellow no. 18 which he's known for.

None of these drivers have an iconic paint scheme anymore. Take Ross Chastain... if I was Trackhouse, I would want that black and red paint scheme from the Hail Melon to be a primary paint scheme. And when GoPro sponsors the car, change the red out for blue. The cars don't need to look radically different every week to appease different sponsors. They moved the numbers up to make the sponsor logos much bigger. That should be enough.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Back in the 90s and early-2000s, even when the drivers ran a one-off paint scheme, they often incorporated core elements from their primary scheme.

Now, no identity.

 

[virtualbalboa]

What asphalt racers are getting big on is the start money. They'd rather see races pay $5,000 to win and $1,500 to start than have races paying $20,000 to win and $750 or $1,000 to start.

I listened to some of Bubba Pollard's podcasts/interviews on YouTube and it is clear to me that the expense situation in late models is out of control. Practice alone is absurd, and a result of the rich kids who populate the sport now.

In asphalt racing, you'll have guys back out of a race because of the purse, because they're afraid of getting their **** torn up. Which is a valid concern with how many of these kids race now.

I started writing something here in response to this but stopped because it turned into a multi-paragraph b!tchfest about Late Model Racing in 2023 which is not the purpose of this thread. Related because of how NASCAR's structure now encourages this behavior at these levels, but nor the purpose, and that is more grandstanding than anything on my part to get deeper into it.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

NASCAR needs to pour more money into grassroots asphalt racing. That's the frank reality of it. You build fans at the local level. For example, high school and college football fans help build the NFL fanbase and minor league baseball helps build the MLB fanbase.

I've been trying to figure out how to work this subject into the conversation. Motorsports are unique in that public schools don't have programs to encourage participation. Many of the reasons are understandable. But beyond the four most popular stick and ball sports, even swimming and gymnastics are present in some schools. I assume schools still schedule football pep rallys on Friday afternoons at the expense of the last-period classes. It's tough for motorsports to compete with that kind of publicly funded indoctrination served up to a captive audience.

 

[HoneyBadger]

I listened to some of Bubba Pollard's podcasts/interviews on YouTube and it is clear to me that the expense situation in late models is out of control. Practice alone is absurd, and a result of the rich kids who populate the sport now.

Beyond out of control. Some of these motors and shock rules that were legalized, with intense pressure from the racers themselves, are just ridiculous.

 

[Greg]

Multi car teams is like a big box store thing. Fewer king makers means a team owner has more power and a tighter leash.

But as many have said this is just a different generation with less interest in Nascar. I wouldn't blame anyone and skinning the cars for the same way for the sake of a drivers brand or personality isn't going to change things.

Nascar needs to quit listening to every marketing guru and especially the fickle fans. Trying to be cool is counter productive.
Just put on the best races possibile. I do wish they ran more Xfinity and the Trucks ran at more local tracks all over the country.
It would take an investment that's willing to loose money in the short term for the greater good. Putting on a big show with big name drivers in your own back yard is the way to win a new and highy coveted young fan base.

Nascar also needs many many skimpy clad smoking hawt trophy queens in victory lane and prancing around before the race. Nothing in the world could be more appealing and inspiring. It couldnt be any more obvious, Hollywood knows that is a must have if you want interest in almost everything they produce. Nascar should quit walking on eggs and terrified of offending sensitive people.

 

[Naitch]

I've been trying to figure out how to work this subject into the conversation. Motorsports are unique in that public schools don't have programs to encourage participation. Many of the reasons are understandable. But beyond the four most popular stick and ball sports, even swimming and gymnastics are present in some schools. I assume schools still schedule football pep rallys on Friday afternoons at the expense of the last-period classes. It's tough for motorsports to compete with that kind of publicly funded indoctrination served up to a captive audience.

Motorsports are probably more comparable to hockey. Both are sports with deep regional roots that cultivated a national following. College hockey is big in the Northeast and Midwest but almost entirely absent (outside of intramural leagues) elsewhere. I don't even think you have high school hockey outside of the Northeast or Midwest.

But yeah, motorsports are even more disadvantaged because even in the South, there isn't high school or college auto racing.

 

[StandOnIt]

Ross does the hail melon, gets into it with Larson and Hamlin, knocks the **** out of Gragson, Elliott walls Hamlin gets sent home the Nascar jesus even. A foreigner wins the Chicago race, just spanks the **** out of everybody. Hamlin wrecks Larson twice and B.S. about it. Personally I think some of the fan base is numbed out. There is plenty of personality in all of the series.

And the stick n ball clown that started this mess is yet another who continues to try to fit racing into his stick n an ball paradigm. Why some people continue to compare a bunch of really large guys knocking each other down with the intention of maiming each other chasing a ball around to Nascar stock car racing at 190 per in a mechanical marvel I will never understand. It hardly ever works if ever.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Related because of how NASCAR's structure now encourages this behavior at these levels

I agree that the playoffs, especially, somewhat encourage this type of behavior. But, at the same time, it's more of a problem with this generation.

Wrecking a man for a championship is the equivalent of targeting a quarterback on the opening drive of the Super Bowl. It's a malignant foul, and the vast majority of racers would never do anything like it. There's enough respect for the sport itself from most not to do it.

The problem with the kids today is they grew up playing videogames, watching Days of Thunder and Talladega Nights, and being told over and over to "win at all costs."

But, yes, the current format promotes this to a degree. Gone are the days where a driver is content with stringing together four consecutive runner-up finishes, or finishing in the top-five for 10 consecutive races, or something. I used to love when a driver would go 25 races without a DNF and they'd get a ton of praise about it from Benny Parsons. I could argue that a streak of consecutive finishes NOW is even more impressive because of the DVP clock.

But "winning" is the only thing that matters.

 

[virtualbalboa]

I've been trying to figure out how to work this subject into the conversation. Motorsports are unique in that public schools don't have programs to encourage participation. Many of the reasons are understandable. But beyond the four most popular stick and ball sports, even swimming and gymnastics are present in some schools. I assume schools still schedule football pep rallys on Friday afternoons at the expense of the last-period classes. It's tough for motorsports to compete with that kind of publicly funded indoctrination served up to a captive audience.

There are issues with just trying to go back in time with NASCAR, and the grassroots stuff is part of it. Take factory stock/street stock classes in modern pavement oval racing. When I see races of those classes, what I'm generally seeing are people in 4th gen Monte Carlos or nerfed template late models. I can think of one region - ONE - where people have adapted modern V8 late model stock cars into racing vehicles. A lot of that comes down to the complexity of those cars and how much tech has been shoved into modern Chargers and Mustangs. Costs then become exceptionally high as no one can build things out of junkyard parts but instead wind up needing to acquire specially built race cars like Legends cars (which in case you didn't know; Speedway Motorsports Inc, the NASCAR track owner, owns the IP of and makes commission from the sales of cars) which are very pricey for young drivers. The carry over of tech from FWD pony/4cyl stocks is very lousy to rear wheel drive cars. And then from a sustainability perspective, purses have basically been static since the 1980s.

Old cars or expensive new cars that are slower + no way to make it affordable for regular folks + desire for promoters to not spend more money on purses + parents think their kid is the next Jr. and are willing to outspend the competition to prove it = the state of affairs.

 

[Naitch]

Ross does the hail melon, gets into it with Larson and Hamlin, knocks the **** out of Gragson, Elliott walls Hamlin gets sent home the Nascar jesus even. A foreigner wins the Chicago race, just spanks the **** out of everybody. Hamlin wrecks Larson twice and B.S. about it. Personally I think some of the fan base is numbed out. There is plenty of personality in all of the series.

And the stick n ball clown that started this mess is yet another who continues to try to fit racing into his stick n an ball paradigm. Why some people continue to compare a bunch of really large guys knocking each other down with the intention of maiming each other chasing a ball around to Nascar stock car racing at 190 per in a mechanical marvel I will never understand. It hardly ever works if ever.

This post is giving these vibes:

 

[virtualbalboa]

Motorsports are probably more comparable to hockey. Both are sports with deep regional roots that cultivated a national following. College hockey is big in the Northeast and Midwest but almost entirely absent (outside of intramural leagues) elsewhere. I don't even think you have high school hockey outside of the Northeast or Midwest.

But yeah, motorsports are even more disadvantaged because even in the South, there isn't high school or college auto racing.

The funny part is that there IS college motorsports, but it is Formula SAE and no one has ever thought it worthwhile to convince the relevant authorities to actually permit head to head racing or even argue it had merit.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Motorsports are probably more comparable to hockey. Both are sports with deep regional roots that cultivated a national following. College hockey is big in the Northeast and Midwest but almost entirely absent (outside of intramural leagues) elsewhere. I don't even think you have high school hockey outside of the Northeast or Midwest.

But yeah, motorsports are even more disadvantaged because even in the South, there isn't high school or college auto racing.

Racing is a purely capitalist sport.

The equivalent to this is INEX, and the Summer Shootout. But many of the rich kids are bypassing that altogether and going from go-karts right into Pro Late Models.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Nascar also needs many many skimpy clad smoking hawt trophy queens in victory lane and prancing around before the race. Nothing in the world could be more appealing and inspiring.

I recall stats that about 40% of current fans are female. I know 50% of potential fans are female, give or take lifespan statistics. So NASCAR also needs some beefcake in Speedos strutting and flexing.

Or just go with putting on the best possible races, as you said, and leave any sideshows to the teams. I'm pretty sure a sponsor can work some eye candy into the pre-race pit walks if it's interested.

 

[virtualbalboa]

I agree that the playoffs, especially, somewhat encourage this type of behavior. But, at the same time, it's more of a problem with this generation.

Wrecking a man for a championship is the equivalent of targeting a quarterback on the opening drive of the Super Bowl. It's a malignant foul, and the vast majority of racers would never do anything like it. There's enough respect for the sport itself from most not to do it.

The problem with the kids today is they grew up playing videogames, watching Days of Thunder and Talladega Nights, and being told over and over to "win at all costs."

But, yes, the current format promotes this to a degree. Gone are the days where a driver is content with stringing together four consecutive runner-up finishes, or finishing in the top-five for 10 consecutive races, or something. I used to love when a driver would go 25 races without a DNF and they'd get a ton of praise about it from Benny Parsons. I could argue that a streak of consecutive finishes NOW is even more impressive because of the DVP clock.

But "winning" is the only thing that matters.

Winning only matters in the grassroots motorsports where kids are prevalent and being funded on their way to NASCAR. Why? Because if they don't win, they lose funding and their careers are over about as early in their lives as the average Soviet gymnast. You see it in midgets, Legends cars, and pavement late models. You do not see this in sprint cars because people can get killed. You do not see this in dirt late models to anywhere near the same degree because you will be pounded into paste by mobs of angry fans and grown-man drivers/teams. It happens in Mods, and maybe it is stereotyping from a Ted Christopher fan, but even he was nothing like your average Bowman Grey graduate. It's not the same as modern late model racing.

 

[StandOnIt]

I've been trying to figure out how to work this subject into the conversation. Motorsports are unique in that public schools don't have programs to encourage participation. Many of the reasons are understandable. But beyond the four most popular stick and ball sports, even swimming and gymnastics are present in some schools. I assume schools still schedule football pep rallys on Friday afternoons at the expense of the last-period classes. It's tough for motorsports to compete with that kind of publicly funded indoctrination served up to a captive audience.

From an early age stick an ball is forced on the youth. You would think it would be more popular than it is. For all the money taxpayers have to pay for all of that and the large herd it gathers, one has to question the sanity of the whole thing. It didn't take long for baseball to be eclipsed by football and even the elbowing of the tall in basketball.

 

[Naitch]

The funny part is that there IS college motorsports, but it is Formula SAE and no one has ever thought it worthwhile to convince the relevant authorities to actually permit head to head racing or even argue it had merit.

I would be interested in how a large scale college motorsport would work. I think it'd be a natural training ground for future racing engineers and drivers. It might also help people appreciate the more technical aspects of the sport and overcome some of the image issues that the sport currently experiences.

It has a snowball's chance of actually happening but I could imagine the weekly races would be like track meets where different schools field teams at different campuses around the country. It'd be a pretty cool atmosphere.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

But yeah, motorsports are even more disadvantaged because even in the South, there isn't high school or college auto racing.

With the direction college sports are heading, maybe others will follow Liberty's footsteps. Or maybe the conferences will start sponsoring local racers and build a schedule of their own. (Who knows, that may finally get me interested in college sports.)

 

[HoneyBadger]

There are issues with just trying to go back in time with NASCAR, and the grassroots stuff is part of it. Take factory stock/street stock classes in modern pavement oval racing. When I see races of those classes, what I'm generally seeing are people in 4th gen Monte Carlos or nerfed template late models. I can think of one region - ONE - where people have adapted modern V8 late model stock cars into racing vehicles. A lot of that comes down to the complexity of those cars and how much tech has been shoved into modern Chargers and Mustangs. Costs then become exceptionally high as no one can build things out of junkyard parts but instead wind up needing to acquire specially built race cars like Legends cars (which in case you didn't know; Speedway Motorsports Inc, the NASCAR track owner, owns the IP of and makes commission from the sales of cars) which are very pricey for young drivers. The carry over of tech from FWD pony/4cyl stocks is very lousy to rear wheel drive cars. And then from a sustainability perspective, purses have basically been static since the 1980s.

Old cars or expensive new cars that are slower + no way to make it affordable for regular folks + desire for promoters to not spend more money on purses + parents think their kid is the next Jr. and are willing to outspend the competition to prove it = the state of affairs.

The future of pavement short track racing, on a true grassroots level, is four-cylinder racing.

The NASCAR Goody's Dash Series was way ahead of its time.

Older V8 cars are increasingly becoming collector's items because of their rarity.

When more and more of these electric vehicles hit the road, or more people move to driving hybrids, they're gonna be selling Corollas.



It's always been strange to me that the Craftsman Truck Series isn't more popular than it is, especially with America's Big Truck Culture. Perhaps it's because the races are on Friday nights? Even weider considering Hailie Deegan's presence in the Truck Series for the past three years.

 

[virtualbalboa]

I would be interested in how a large scale college motorsport would work. I think it'd be a natural training ground for future racing engineers and drivers. It might also help people appreciate the more technical aspects of the sport and overcome some of the image issues that the sport currently experiences.

It has a snowball's chance of actually happening but I could imagine the weekly races would be like track meets where different schools field teams at different campuses around the country. It'd be a pretty cool atmosphere.

I mean, again, it already exists. Look at a list of how many schools participate in Formula SAE: if you are a R1/R2 university with an engineering school, you have a Formula SAE program already which competes in regional and national meets. But they're building cars for slalom and there's judging criteria based on efficiency stats and other stuff that makes it horrible for fans to watch.

 

[Naitch]

I mean, again, it already exists. Look at a list of how many schools participate in Formula SAE: if you are a R1/R2 university with an engineering school, you have a Formula SAE program already which competes in regional and national meets. But they're building cars for slalom and there's judging criteria based on efficiency stats and other stuff that makes it horrible for fans to watch.

Hence why I said "large scale." My school had Formula SAE but I don't even think most people were aware it existed and it seemed pretty confined to a niche group of engineering kids.

 

[StandOnIt]

It's always been strange to me that the Craftsman Truck Series isn't more popular than it is, especially with America's Big Truck Culture. Perhaps it's because the races are on Friday nights? Even weider considering Hailie Deegan's presence in the Truck Series for the past three years.

The trucks draw as many or more than the indy series..explain that.

 

[virtualbalboa]

The future of pavement short track racing, on a true grassroots level, is four-cylinder racing.

The NASCAR Goody's Dash Series was way ahead of its time.

Older V8 cars are increasingly becoming collector's items because of their rarity.

When more and more of these electric vehicles hit the road, or more people move to driving hybrids, they're gonna be selling Corollas.

Nobody knows this exists except me, I feel like. As you can probably tell given where Sands is located and the fact that it has the wildest layout of a 1/4 "oval" you've ever seen, this is not a track that is getting 5000 person crowds, yet here it is, a series of modern cars on an oval racing hard but not with I-4s and FWD. I have thought about doing a presentation on it for MARFC at some sort of function just because I find it so fascinating and am completely confused as to how it hasn't spread all over America while Panther-body racing is now at every other track.

It's always been strange to me that the Craftsman Truck Series isn't more popular than it is, especially with America's Big Truck Culture. Perhaps it's because the races are on Friday nights? Even weider considering Hailie Deegan's presence in the Truck Series for the past three years.

It has no identity of it's own except "Cup feeder series" and "place for washouts and wannabes". Pavement late models have signature events like the All American 400 and Winchester 400 and Snowball Derby. What's the signature race for the Trucks? Daytona in February?

 

[Naitch]

It's always been strange to me that the Craftsman Truck Series isn't more popular than it is, especially with America's Big Truck Culture. Perhaps it's because the races are on Friday nights? Even weider considering Hailie Deegan's presence in the Truck Series for the past three years.

It isn't promoted well and it's pretty clear that it's the "minor leagues." As others have said, the Trucks also need to go back to short tracks (which was its original purpose). I think it'd be more popular if it offered more of a unique viewing experience. Right now, it's the C-tier series running the same tracks as Xfinity and Cup.

 

[Greg]

I recall stats that about 40% of current fans are female. I know 50% of potential fans are female, give or take lifespan statistics. So NASCAR also needs some beefcake in Speedos strutting and flexing.

Or just go with putting on the best possible races, as you said, and leave any sideshows to the teams. I'm pretty sure a sponsor can work some eye candy into the pre-race pit walks if it's interested.

I am thinking Nascar has a code on how much eye candy a sponsor can incorporate into their maketing. It isnt the Taliban and Nun outfits but it is still a controlled thing imo.

Hawt wimmins is much more universally accepted than some beefcake. A beautiful woman is recognized even by other wimmins.

 

[HoneyBadger]

Winning only matters in the grassroots motorsports where kids are prevalent and being funded on their way to NASCAR. Why? Because if they don't win, they lose funding and their careers are over about as early in their lives as the average Soviet gymnast. You see it in midgets, Legends cars, and pavement late models.

I call bull**** here.

You're operating under the assumption that NASCAR is a meritocracy. It's not.

Some of these kids in the Truck and Xfinity Series were mid-tier Late Model drivers.

Some racers have hundreds of first-place trophies in their house and garage and have never even sat in the ****pit of a Truck Series or Xfinity car. Some people have never won a race in their life and landed mid-tier or even top-tier Xfinity rides.