New rules for the All-Star race

Spotter22 said:
On a dragstrip it would matter. On an oval where you are running 500 miles it doesnt once you have reached Max speed and the draft takes over. Thats my best shot right there. Hope you got it.
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It matters if you have to lift in the corner, if you are lifting in the corner at daytona, acceleration matters, or even on a 1.5, that's why these cars shouldn't be able to run flat out on any track.
 
Mopardh9 said:
It matters if you have to lift in the corner, if you are lifting in the corner at daytona, acceleration matters, or even on a 1.5, that's why these cars shouldn't be able to run flat out on any track.
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Its not gonna matter at Daytona because if you lift due to closing rate you wont lose enough to notice when the draft pulls you back up. Its the same principal as cars qualifying a second slower at Daytona and Talladega then staying up with the pack during the race.
 
Spotter22 said:
Its not gonna matter at Daytona because if you lift due to closing rate you wont lose enough to notice when the draft pulls you back up. Its the same principal as cars qualifying a second slower at Daytona and Talladega then staying up with the pack during the race.
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Really? how come it mattered back in the late 80s and early 90s?
 
Spotter22 said:
Its not gonna matter at Daytona because if you lift due to closing rate you wont lose enough to notice when the draft pulls you back up. Its the same principal as cars qualifying a second slower at Daytona and Talladega then staying up with the pack during the race.
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If a car has to lift in the corner , drafting actually matters more, i don't see how letting these cars go wide open on any track is a good thing?????
 
LewTheShoe said:
Charlie, what kind of motor are you asking for, other than it not have intake restrictions?
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I'm not asking for any kind of engine OTHER THAN it not be restricted. I don't care how many HP it makes, how many CIs / CCs it displaces, how fast it tops out. I want an engine that will accelerate promptly when the driver puts his foot down, promptly enough that he feels confident he can get back up to speed without losing too much ground if he has to lift. I want an engine that accelerates at the same speed as the engine used on every other track on the circuit, not one that takes most of (more than?) 2.5 miles to come up to full speed.

As to the chances of getting the banking knocked down being better than smaller engines, fantastic. That's been my preferred solution all along - alter the tracks so races their can be run with the same rules and equipment as every other track, so drivers have to lift and / or use the brakes going into the corners. But there's no demonstrated need for reduced speeds at Charlotte.

Thanks for asking.
 
So i pose this question to all of you and specifically spotter, where does the best racing in the country take place and why?
 
Spotter22 said:
Its not gonna matter at Daytona because if you lift due to closing rate you wont lose enough to notice when the draft pulls you back up. Its the same principal as cars qualifying a second slower at Daytona and Talladega then staying up with the pack during the race.
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Okay, then how come this doesn't happen at California or Michigan? They don't run around in draft-dependent packs there.

I guess this particular conversation depends on how unhappy each individual is with racing on the 1.5'ers in the first place. I'm on record preferring there be fewer of them on the schedule, but to me the worst of them will always be preferable to a plate race. I find almost anything to be preferable to plate races, at least as they've been run in the 20+ years I've been following the sport. Well, maybe not the tandem era, but that's about the only exception. Otherwise, I'll take Chicago or Kansas over a plate race every time. Just me, I guess.
 
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StandOnIt said:
are you going by statistical information or your opinion?...they are different.
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Ok I'll answer this question because all you want do is to spin it as usual. The best racing takes place at your local short track, why...because they can't run wide open, they have to brake in the corners, throttle response matters and they don't have a convoluted Chase format.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Ok I'll answer this question because all you want do is to spin it as usual. The best racing takes place at your local short track, why...because they can't run wide open, they have to brake in the corners, throttle response matters and they don't have a convoluted Chase format.
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ok, that is your opinion.
 
My point being if the racing is put more into car control as far as the driver is concerned....braking, acceleration, the racing will be better. Let them go wide open is not racing.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Okay, then how come this doesn't happen at California or Michigan? They don't run around in draft-dependent packs there.

I guess this particular conversation depends on how unhappy each individual is with racing on the 1.5'ers in the first place. I'm on record preferring there be fewer of them on the schedule, but to me the worst of them will always be preferable to a plate race. I find almost anything to be preferable to plate races, at least as they've been run in the 20+ years I've been following the sport. Well, maybe not the tandem era, but that's about the only exception. Otherwise, I'll take Chicago or Kansas over a plate race every time. Just me, I guess.
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If you want to get technical, many races are "plate" races. This weekend you will hear almost every car hitting the rev limiter. On every track Nascar mandates how fast a car can go with the rear end gear. It is only going to rev so high before it hits the chip. One of the challenges at Michigan is what they call hanging high RPM that is tough on engines. They hit top speed but don't loose much going around the corners.
 
Blaze said:
We never seen them at this track, or a track like it so I can't judge just yet.


How great has the All-Star race been in years anyway? Like I said, wait to pass judgement, you can't judge what has yet to be seen.
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The all star race is a joke, you do understand this is a prelude to plates becoming across the board on 1.5s? Once nascar sees the desired results of close racing a crash fests it will be on all 1.5s.
 
Mopardh9 said:
The all star race is a joke, you do understand this is a prelude to plates becoming across the board on 1.5s? Once nascar sees the desired results of close racing a crash fests it will be on all 1.5s.
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Can you show me proof that the race will be like that? I want to see you show me a 1.5 track race on Plates that has been done that shows that it will be anything like what you just said. Until we see what it's like, we can't say. Is it going to be good? Who knows. Is it going to be bad? Who knows. I'll wait until AFTER I see it to pass any judgement.
 
StandOnIt said:
If you want to get technical, many races are "plate" races. This weekend you will hear almost every car hitting the rev limiter. On every track Nascar mandates how fast a car can go with the rear end gear. It is only going to rev so high before it hits the chip. One of the challenges at Michigan is what they call hanging high RPM that is tough on engines. They hit top speed but don't loose much going around the corners.
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The chip has no effect on acceleration. That's my gripe, not top-end speed.
 
Blaze said:
Can you show me proof that the race will be like that? I want to see you show me a 1.5 track race on Plates that has been done that shows that it will be anything like what you just said. Until we see what it's like, we can't say. Is it going to be good? Who knows. Is it going to be bad? Who knows. I'll wait until AFTER I see it to pass any judgement.
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Why try it if they aren't intending on doing it? Why would it be any different than a 2 mile or 2.5 track? Plates do the same thing no matter what the size of the track. Hell plates are used at NH for the Mods so they don't embarrass the Cup cars.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Why try it if they aren't intending on doing it? Why would it be any different than a 2 mile or 2.5 track? Plates do the same thing no matter what the size of the track. Hell plates are used at NH for the Mods so they don't embarrass the Cup cars.
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I didn't even mention anything about them not trying it for other 1.5s lol. I said show me proof it's going to be a crash fest by showing me where you get the data from. I guess I missed the last time they used plates at one of the tracks.
 
Blaze said:
I didn't even mention anything about them not trying it for other 1.5s lol. I said show me proof it's going to be a crash fest by showing me where you get the data from. I guess I missed the last time they used plates at one of the tracks.
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It's going to tighten up the field, evidence has shown that when a plate is used, why would it be any different on a 1.5?
 
Blaze said:
Were any of them on a 1.5 mile track? :idunno:
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Nope. One was on a 1-miler, and one was on a flat 2.5 miler, and I wasn't impressed with those either. There are plenty of things I haven't seen tried on a 1.5-miler that I haven't seen tried anywhere; I'd go with any of those over plates.

Again, I guess it depends on how unhappy one is with what one is seeing lately on 1.5s vs. how much one likes what we see at Daytona and Talladega. To me, this is a cure in search of disease, a treatment with little to gain and enough potential side effects to require an extended ad so the announcer can fit 'em all in.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Nope. One was on a 1-miler, and one was on a flat 2.5 miler, and I wasn't impressed with those either. There are plenty of things I haven't seen tried on a 1.5-miler that I haven't seen tried anywhere; I'd go with any of those over plates.

Again, I guess it depends on how unhappy one is with what one is seeing lately on 1.5s vs. how much one likes what we see at Daytona and Talladega. To me, this is a cure in search of disease, a treatment with little to gain and enough potential side effects to require an extended ad so the announcer can fit 'em all in.
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and you or I have never seen this package on a sprint car either
 
StandOnIt said:
your confused, they have never run this package on a cup car anywhere.
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Confused about what> this is a 1.5 track where speed reach over 195mph, restrict that with a plate is going to bunch the cars up, how can it not? explain how it will be different than Dega or Daytona?
 
Mopardh9 said:
It's going to tighten up the field, evidence has shown that when a plate is used, why would it be any different on a 1.5?
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I KNOW the track type is different so I'm not saying it to compare that, but a lot of people was against them at Indy for the X race but that turned out to be a great race. People judged that before seeing it and it turned out good. Now yeah doesn't mean this one will turn out good but at the same time just cause that's how it is at Dega and Daytona doesn't mean it will turn out bad like that either.
 
Blaze said:
I KNOW the track type is different so I'm not saying it to compare that, but a lot of people was against them at Indy for the X race but that turned out to be a great race. People judged that before seeing it and it turned out good. Now yeah doesn't mean this one will turn out good but at the same time just cause that's how it is at Dega and Daytona doesn't mean it will turn out bad like that either.
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How many grooves does Indy have? I'd hardly call that a great race, but if you think it was ok.
 
Stop this, please.
This thread is NOT ABOUT Daytona, Talladega, or short tracks or ANY OTHER race on the schedule.
This is about the package that is being tried at the All-Star Race, only.

This thread is about to go the way of the other thread if this war doesn't stop.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Nope. One was on a 1-miler, and one was on a flat 2.5 miler, and I wasn't impressed with those either. There are plenty of things I haven't seen tried on a 1.5-miler that I haven't seen tried anywhere; I'd go with any of those over plates.

Again, I guess it depends on how unhappy one is with what one is seeing lately on 1.5s vs. how much one likes what we see at Daytona and Talladega. To me, this is a cure in search of disease, a treatment with little to gain and enough potential side effects to require an extended ad so the announcer can fit 'em all in.
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So we can judge what a 1.5 miler is gonna do, based off a 1 miler and a 2.5 miler but we can't off of Indy? Gotcha.

I'm still going to wait to pass judgement.
 
StandOnIt said:
do you believe somehow the trailing car has more pedal to pass the car in front when they are both running wide open?
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Nope. It's acceleration before they reach top speed I'm interested in, or after lifting or braking, or to get past somebody who's spinning in front of them, or to get out a pit box faster than the guy behind you, or for that leading car to take off because he HASN'T been running wide open, saving his equipment until the guy running second closed up.
 
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