Post 2022 Gen 7 Car Upgrades

SpeedPagan

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I don’t get why NASCAR wouldn’t at least test a higher HP package for the Gen 7. It has to be worth finding out how it would do, at least from a data gathering perspective.

Because they don't like to admit mistakes. It's the same reason why we still have The Playoffs despite the fact that it hurts TV ratings during Football season instead of helping it. Yea, it added more drama during the racing season, but the drama isn't helping the TV rating. It's why they tried every trick in the book to get the COT/Gen6 cars to work and fit into a circular hole even though the car was clearly a square peg. The only reason we have 670hp today is because enough drivers spoke up and told NASCAR they wanted more HP. NASCAR tested it during the off season and released the comparison footage between 550hp and 670hp on social media and the fans were on board with a HP increase.

Honestly, I think if anything is going to change in NASCAR, enough people in the garage area (mainly drivers) have to speak up and get enough of them talking loudly before NASCAR pays attention. It's why unions are so effective in getting better contracts for the workers from the companies.
 

Formerjackman

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I have no idea what they are going or not going to do about short tracks. I'm pretty sure Denny has had ample opportunity to tell Nascar what he thinks, but yapping to social media is what he does. Matt Weaver is in the same vein. Nascar and the owners are well aware of the problem I bet.
I'm sure they ARE aware, but they don't give a damn, because for the owners it would likely cost them money, and for NASCAR, they would have to admit once again that they got something wrong. So that leaves Plan B; Call them out in public. I personally have zero issue shaming someone when they won't listen to reason. At the very least, they may actually have to publicly defend their decisions, which will generally expose their flawed thought process.
 

The Nature Boy

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It's why unions are so effective in getting better contracts for the workers from the companies.

When drivers kept bitching about the Gen 7 being unsafe, I said that they need to unionize. I was told that that wasn't "in the culture of NASCAR" and that every driver is replaceable. I'm sure NAPA would be totally fine with Justin Allgaier driving the #9 while Chase is publicly striking.

NASCAR drivers need to unionize. Period. They're the ones with the leverage with sponsors. Look at how Smithfield clings to Aric Almirola. Sponsors are paying for the drivers and if they strike, they could actually get **** done.
 

FLRacingFan

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I'm still not seeing the downside.
It being easier to cover mistakes (which there are fewer of to begin with) means less passing. Just another way in which these cars drive better than the previous generation on short tracks and road courses.

“I don’t think it helps the racing any,” Bowman said. “I think the thing that creates it is we’re running the same transaxle at most racetracks, so [during] the downshift to fourth you don’t gain a ton of RPMs, so it’s really easy to make that downshift. It’s a little more difficult to make the downshift to third. I think what it does for the racing is: a guy can miss the corner, not be back to the throttle very well, not pointed right, not in a good spot, and just downshift and get off the corner just fine. That just makes it harder to pass and harder to set up passes.

“I don’t want to speak for everybody, but for me, I think at places like Gateway, Darlington, Pocono — it’s going to be really hard to make it to where we don’t shift at those places,” said Custer. “I mean, it’s probably going to be a thing that’s part of the racing now, but I think when you look at Martinsville and the traditional tracks that we don’t shift at, it doesn’t help the racing to have the shifting.

“It makes it a little bit more busy as a driver at times…but I don’t think it helps the racing when you can kind of grab a gear and accelerate off the corner. Even if you make a little mistake, you can kind of makeup for it with the shift, so I think it’s something where going to the traditional tracks and not shifting would probably be better.”

 

SpeedPagan

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When drivers kept bitching about the Gen 7 being unsafe, I said that they need to unionize. I was told that that wasn't "in the culture of NASCAR" and that every driver is replaceable. I'm sure NAPA would be totally fine with Justin Allgaier driving the #9 while Chase is publicly striking.

NASCAR drivers need to unionize. Period. They're the ones with the leverage with sponsors. Look at how Smithfield clings to Aric Almirola. Sponsors are paying for the drivers and if they strike, they could actually get **** done.

Yea, I think the last time they tried to unionize was in 1969 with the Professional Drivers Association. Their biggest moment came when teams walked out of the first Talladega race because the tires couldn't sustain the heavy loads of the high speed and high banked turns of the track. They were rightfully worried that someone was going to get killed at Talladega. However, even with the walk-out, Bill France still manages to get drivers from the lower divisions to race in the inaugural Grand National race at Talladega and it went off without a hitch.

The PDA didn't really form a picket line, they didn't air their grievances to the fans, they didn't let anyone know why most of the drivers are not racing that Sunday. Bill France controlled the narrative the entire time and even gave fans a reason to come to the race. Buy a ticket for the 1969 Talladega race and get a ticket for the 1970 Daytona 500.

That's where the whole notion of "Well they'll just replace the drivers" comes from. Which is true, there's like a million late model drivers, Truck and Xfinity drivers who'd be more than happy to hop into a Cup car. However, I think today a driver's union would be smarter in terms of getting their message out and have better organization.
 

The Nature Boy

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That's where the whole notion of "Well they'll just replace the drivers" comes from. Which is true, there's like a million late model drivers, Truck and Xfinity drivers who'd be more than happy to hop into a Cup car. However, I think today a driver's union would be smarter in terms of getting their message out and have better organization.

The economics of NASCAR today are in a whole different universe than 1969. The teams are too reliant on sponsors, who pay to sponsor certain drivers. And as you allude to, there are more avenues for drivers to communicate with fans.

A collective driver's strike would cripple NASCAR. You might be able to get away with scabs for a couple of weeks, but the sponsors are going to start getting pissed pretty quickly.
 

Formerjackman

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I'm still not seeing the downside.
Because it allows drivers to recover from mistakes and not get passed. With 38 cars running almost the exact same speed, you NEED things that separate the cars from each other. When you basically can't miss a corner, and you can't burn up the brakes and you can't wear out the tires, how does a better driver get an edge on a lesser driver, or a better setup over a lesser setup? It all feeds into the phenomenon known as "Track position means everything", because if you can't separate yourself and your car from all the others, you spend 60 laps trying to make a pass for 14th place. More than once I have watched Chase run in the exact same position for an entire pit stop cycle, never passing, never getting passed. Not my idea of excitement.
 

StandOnIt

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I'm sure they ARE aware, but they don't give a damn, because for the owners it would likely cost them money, and for NASCAR, they would have to admit once again that they got something wrong. So that leaves Plan B; Call them out in public. I personally have zero issue shaming someone when they won't listen to reason. At the very least, they may actually have to publicly defend their decisions, which will generally expose their flawed thought process.
They have tried a number of things to improve the small tracks. It isn't like they are sitting on their hands about it. They can't make huge changes in the car without a long lead time for the teams. I believe that is one of the things Nascar and the RTA decided. I would bet during the off season they make some more larger changes.
 

StandOnIt

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Because it allows drivers to recover from mistakes and not get passed. With 38 cars running almost the exact same speed, you NEED things that separate the cars from each other. When you basically can't miss a corner, and you can't burn up the brakes and you can't wear out the tires, how does a better driver get an edge on a lesser driver, or a better setup over a lesser setup? It all feeds into the phenomenon known as "Track position means everything", because if you can't separate yourself and your car from all the others, you spend 60 laps trying to make a pass for 14th place. More than once I have watched Chase run in the exact same position for an entire pit stop cycle, never passing, never getting passed. Not my idea of excitement.
Short tracks especially the small one lane narrow tracks aren't known for their passing. Banging and possible wrecking during passing yeah. But today's drivers don't have much of that in them. They still are booing Logano for roughing up Truex at Martinsville and heaven forbid Hamlin touching the Nascar jesus.
 

aunty dive

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I don’t get why NASCAR wouldn’t at least test a higher HP package for the Gen 7. It has to be worth finding out how it would do, at least from a data gathering perspective.
The Lemans car dyno / track tested and raced engines producing in excess of 900 BHP.

I’m sure HMS saved the data.
 

Formerjackman

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They have tried a number of things to improve the small tracks. It isn't like they are sitting on their hands about it. They can't make huge changes in the car without a long lead time for the teams. I believe that is one of the things Nascar and the RTA decided. I would bet during the off season they make some more larger changes.
Well, I'm reminded of what Dale Jr. said when the car was first introduced. Paraphrased, it was basically, "if THIS is the result you are looking for, why in the hell would you choose THESE parts? We are two years of racing in and still dealing with crap that should have never seen the light of day in the first place.
 

StandOnIt

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The Lemans car dyno / track tested and raced engines producing in excess of 900 BHP.

I’m sure HMS saved the data.
The cars are pushing 200 on the large tracks for over 3 hours. They didn't run that sustained speed at LeMans. I don't see it happening. 750 everywhere would be my guess. They don't want to go back to single file racing, that almost killed the series.
 

Formerjackman

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Short tracks especially the small one lane narrow tracks aren't known for their passing. Banging and possible wrecking during passing yeah. But today's drivers don't have much of that in them. They still are booing Logano for roughing up Truex at Martinsville and heaven forbid Hamlin touching the Nascar jesus.
Hamlin didn't "touch" NASCAR Jesus, he punted him out of the lead from behind, a ZERO talent move, then was too much of a chicken s**t to stand up and take the heat for it. Blaming the tracks is or the drivers is pretty disingenuous. Until 2022, Martinsville and Bristol were two of the most most highly anticipated venues of the whole season.
 

StandOnIt

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Hamlin didn't "touch" NASCAR Jesus, he punted him out of the lead from behind, a ZERO talent move, then was too much of a chicken s**t to stand up and take the heat for it. Blaming the tracks is or the drivers is pretty disingenuous. Until 2022, Martinsville and Bristol were two of the most most highly anticipated venues of the whole season.
I don't see anything wrong with Bristol, it isn't a narrow unbanked track.
 

Formerjackman

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The cars are pushing 200 on the large tracks for over 3 hours. They didn't run that sustained speed at LeMans. I don't see it happening. 750 everywhere would be my guess. They don't want to go back to single file racing, that almost killed the series.
Giving them a package that you don't have to slow down in the corners for is what is killing the speedway racing. Fix that and make it possible to buzz the tires coming up out of the hole, and I think you would see a LOT better racing.
I don't see anything wrong with Bristol, it isn't a narrow unbanked track.
Bristol certainly hasn't been affected as much as Martinsville, but there is still room for improvement.
 

aunty dive

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Well, I'm reminded of what Dale Jr. said when the car was first introduced. Paraphrased, it was basically, "if THIS is the result you are looking for, why in the hell would you choose THESE parts? We are two years of racing in and still dealing with crap that should have never seen the light of day in the first place.

“Does everything right”
 

StandOnIt

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“Does everything right”

Drivers are as fickle as the fans. Some are never satisfied. I wouldn't be surprised if next week Earnhardt was doggin the car. Some fans aren't any different only happy when they are complaining and hoping for company. The series has had some really serious high speed wrecks this year and people sitting in chairs shouting more horsepower think they need to go faster. Somebody gets hurt bad or killed the whole show can come to a screeching halt in a heartbeat. They are pretty close to that point where no matter how safe the car is, you can't stop the G forces from happening. :idunno:
 

SpeedPagan

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Short tracks especially the small one lane narrow tracks aren't known for their passing. Banging and possible wrecking during passing yeah. But today's drivers don't have much of that in them. They still are booing Logano for roughing up Truex at Martinsville and heaven forbid Hamlin touching the Nascar jesus.

I was with you til the last part. Hamlin is a hypothetical whiny little bitch who has no problem racing other drivers dirty, but if the other drivers pay him back in kind? Oh he'll raise a big stink about it. He'll cry about it on the post-race broadcast, social media, and on his podcast.

I'm sure he'll go on his biggest whine-a-thon when he gets eliminated during the playoffs.
 

Charlie Spencer

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Because it allows drivers to recover from mistakes and not get passed. With 38 cars running almost the exact same speed, you NEED things that separate the cars from each other. When you basically can't miss a corner, and you can't burn up the brakes and you can't wear out the tires, how does a better driver get an edge on a lesser driver, or a better setup over a lesser setup? It all feeds into the phenomenon known as "Track position means everything", because if you can't separate yourself and your car from all the others, you spend 60 laps trying to make a pass for 14th place. More than once I have watched Chase run in the exact same position for an entire pit stop cycle, never passing, never getting passed. Not my idea of excitement.
Sounds like Daytona and Talladega to me, and every but me claims to love those.
 

StandOnIt

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I was with you til the last part. Hamlin is a hypothetical whiny little bitch who has no problem racing other drivers dirty, but if the other drivers pay him back in kind? Oh he'll raise a big stink about it. He'll cry about it on the post-race broadcast, social media, and on his podcast.

I'm sure he'll go on his biggest whine-a-thon when he gets eliminated during the playoffs.
Well if you haven't figured it out, the way it was written caused the same indignant responses as the original "touch" lol. The touch heard round the world. :D
 

SpeedPagan

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NGL, when I heard the specs of the NextGen cars for the first time. I thought it was going to open up a second lane at tracks like Martinsville, because more grip means more side by side racing, right? Boy, how wrong I was.
 

StandOnIt

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NGL, when I heard the specs of the NextGen cars for the first time. I thought it was going to open up a second lane at tracks like Martinsville, because more grip means more side by side racing, right? Boy, how wrong I was.
I thought it was going to be one hell of a road racing car and it is and it fixed the intermediates where the loudest moaning was coming from.
 

Formerjackman

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“Does everything right”

There is a huge difference between a car that is great to drive, and a car that produces great racing. Case in point, Formula One. Most capable car on the planet, produces the planet's worst racing. The current IMSA prototype makes the Daytona Prototype look like a. 70's era street stock, but if you want a great race, I'll take the old DP ANY day.
 

FLRacingFan

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I don’t get why NASCAR wouldn’t at least test a higher HP package for the Gen 7. It has to be worth finding out how it would do, at least from a data gathering perspective.
The manufacturers hold them hostage to a degree. They don’t really want big horsepower anymore, for the sake of reliability and, consequently, cost. They’ve said they could get back to 750 fairly easily but that’s pretty much as high as they’re willing. Even that has gone quiet since it was first discussed six months ago.

Remember they were originally going to rock 550 everywhere still with this car until the December ‘21 test at Charlotte, and then it become pretty apparent very quickly these things would be incredibly slow. 670 was essentially a compromise between that and 750.
 

StandOnIt

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I'm glad somebody who fans respect spoke out on what Hamlin is doing. Gordon was very tactful but he got his point across. I have always thought it was pretty stupid to see Hamlin or others "biting the hand that feeds ya". Take care of those problems, if they really ARE problems behind closed doors with the people who can do something about it instead of shooting your mouth off to a certain type of fan that feeds off of that type of misinformation drama.
 

Formerjackman

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I'm glad somebody who fans respect spoke out on what Hamlin is doing. Gordon was very tactful but he got his point across. I have always thought it was pretty stupid to see Hamlin or others "biting the hand that feeds ya". Take care of those problems, if they really ARE problems behind closed doors with the people who can do something about it instead of shooting your mouth off to a certain type of fan that feeds off of that type of misinformation drama.
Unless Hamlin is a complete idiot, I'm sure ALL of these issues HAVE been addressed in private. Here are the three most likely answers he got:

1) We don't see it as a problem.
2) We already fixed that.
3) We are working on that. (repeated monthly)

I agree that things should be handled internally, up to a point. But if you stonewall me, then I'm going to bitch to the world. You want to defend your position? Fine, defend it before God and everyone else. As for biting the hand that feeds them, NASCAR plays that game as well as anybody, and they've been doing since 1948.
 

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Interesting. A new transmission, or a new differential? Did they offer any specifics?
Freddie said “transaxel”. Gluck said he heard they’re going to try some additional things but no further specifics were given.
 
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