Random NASCAR Stuff to talk about.....

Charlie Spencer said:
Opinion piece, long on name calling and assumptions, short on documented facts.
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Tried to make it an individual thread but it moved here. Yes there's some name calling here and there but Kaufman is like the opposite of King Midas. Everything he touches turns to Sheyyitt
 
sky said:
Tried to make it an individual thread but it moved here. Yes there's some name calling here and there but Kaufman is like the opposite of King Midas. Everything he touches turns to Sheyyitt
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He's never impressed me at all. I don't rank him much higher than any of the other investor/team owners we've seen come and go in the last decade.
 
I disliked him after him pushing so hard for the charter system. Was it not extremely evident that he was pushing this because he had the most to gain by doing it? His teams were shut down already and he was still trying to make money on them
 
StandOnIt said:
Long and strong article
CRANDALL: 15 years and 100 facelifts later, NASCAR's playoffs still divide opinion

https://racer.com/2019/09/10/cranda...-later-nascars-playoffs-still-divide-opinion/
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Just keep in mind that everybody in the NASCAR orb has a muzzle on them, so we may NEVER know what they REALLY think about all of this. Three of the retired drivers I would love to hear honestly from are all too connected to the sport to bite the hand that feeds them; Gordon, Stewart, and Earnhardt Jr. Matt Kenseth might also have a unique perspective, but I don't know if he's ready to burn bridges either.
 
Formerjackman said:
Just keep in mind that everybody in the NASCAR orb has a muzzle on them, so we may NEVER know what they REALLY think about all of this. Three of the retired drivers I would love to hear honestly from are all too connected to the sport to bite the hand that feeds them; Gordon, Stewart, and Earnhardt Jr. Matt Kenseth might also have a unique perspective, but I don't know if he's ready to burn bridges either.
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Stewart and Kenseth complain about everything anyway IMO. Gordon would be good but I have never expected him to do anything but go with the flow. I have listened to Jr, and every one he has interviewed, and nobody is trashing anything. It's nothing like the Brian era, it's an open door policy. Logano and Keselowski have said on may occasions Nascar is responsible for the car and our responsibility is to win with it. Most drivers think the same. Jr asked Johnson point blank what he thought about the car from the last version. Johnson explained the differences (huge) but he didn't trash Nascar. It was really interesting what he said about he differences. He's not done, he said that a number of times though.
 
StandOnIt said:
Logano and Keselowski have said on may occasions Nascar is responsible for the car and our responsibility is to win with it. Most drivers think the same.
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Well first off, I'm talking about the playoff systems used since 2003, not the cars, but the point remains the same. Some drivers may well feel that way, but I'm sure there are many who do not, but we will never hear from them, because dissent is not good for your career. It's also important to keep in mind that only a few drivers left ever raced under the Latford System, so their perspective is a bit limited.


StandOnIt said:
Jr asked Johnson point blank what he thought about the car from the last version. Johnson explained the differences (huge) but he didn't trash Nascar.
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He MIGHT think the new car is the biggest piece of crap ever built and that it has ruined his career, but he can't SAY that. That is my point. I take EVERYTHING anyone in the NASCAR world says with a healthy dose of skepticism, because almost nobody is 100% free to speak their mind, for fear of angering or embarrassing someone.
 
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Formerjackman said:
Well first off, I'm talking about the playoff systems used since 2003, not the cars, but the point remains the same. Some drivers may well feel that way, but I'm sure there are many who do not, but we will never hear from them, because dissent is not good for your career. It's also important to keep in mind that only a few drivers left ever raced under the Latford System, so their perspective is a bit limited.
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This morning, SOI posted a link to a story with numerous drivers commenting on the various systems. Did you read it? If I had to summarize it... they all seem aware of the differences but not worked up about them and no axes to grind. A pretty frank discussion of the differing incentives now versus then. General acceptance.

Seems to me... anyone who chooses to wallow in misery over a rules change from 15 years ago is gonna wallow regardless of what a few industry insiders think. They've made their choices. And you've made yours. Case closed.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well first off, I'm talking about the playoff systems used since 2003, not the cars, but the point remains the same. Some drivers may well feel that way, but I'm sure there are many who do not, but we will never hear from them, because dissent is not good for your career. It's also important to keep in mind that only a few drivers left ever raced under the Latford System, so their perspective is a bit limited.


He MIGHT think the new car is the biggest piece of crap ever built and that it has ruined his career, but he can't SAY that. That is my point. I take EVERYTHING anyone in the NASCAR world says with a healthy dose of skepticism, because almost nobody is 100% free to speak their mind, for fear of angering or embarrassing someone.
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some people get it, some never will

Kevin Harvick, 2014
“It’s different, and that’s really the only way that you can explain it because it’s more fun to watch from a fan’s perspective, and I think everybody understands that,” said Harvick. “It’s no different than any other sport – you have to evolve, and in the end, we are in the entertainment business, and we have to have people watching in order to put sponsors on the car and butts in the seats. Those are the number one priority. So in order to keep up with the times, you had to keep up with what people think are exciting and I think the format is exciting.
 
Yep. I may not like some of the changes made, and we can debate whether they're accomplishing anything, but Harv certainly nailed the reasons why changes are introduced.
 
yep I will deal with it. It is much better than having a driver 5 or 6 races ahead at this point. Easier to listen to "lottery", "it's not real" rather than, why are you guys watching so in so is going to win. I've been watching foobah, the ferocious felons beat the Big Bubbas in double overtime.:p
 
StandOnIt said:
some people get it, some never will

Kevin Harvick, 2014
“It’s different, and that’s really the only way that you can explain it because it’s more fun to watch from a fan’s perspective, and I think everybody understands that,” said Harvick. “It’s no different than any other sport – you have to evolve, and in the end, we are in the entertainment business, and we have to have people watching in order to put sponsors on the car and butts in the seats. Those are the number one priority. So in order to keep up with the times, you had to keep up with what people think are exciting and I think the format is exciting.
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What I'm telling you is that we don't have the SLIGHTEST idea whether that's what Harvick thinks about those cars, because ANYTHING that smacks of criticism could land him in hot water. Ultimately yes, you have to take what you are given and learn to deal with it good or bad, but that doesn't mean you don't have an honest opinion about it.
 
Formerjackman said:
What I'm telling you is that we don't have the SLIGHTEST idea whether that's what Harvick thinks about those cars, because ANYTHING that smacks of criticism could land him in hot water. Ultimately yes, you have to take what you are given and learn to deal with it good or bad, but that doesn't mean you don't have an honest opinion about it.
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some never will.
 
The criticism never ends.

The sanctioning body is aware that the vast sea of better ways to do everything is filled with the utterances of people whose actual life experience is highlighted by organizing activities for themselves and their cats.
 
Well, you've ALL missed my point spectacularly. I'm not not even offering a criticism of NASCAR or anybody else. All I am doing is pointing out that you cannot place too much stock in what NASCAR drivers, crew chiefs, owners etc say about certain topics, because they are not totally free to speak their mind. I don't know what is so freaking hard about that concept. Remember when Kyle said the CoT sucked? Well, do you also remember that he later moderated his comments and basically NEVER said it again? Remember when Stewart totally went off on Goodyear and then basically had to go back and apologize for everything he said? Free speech does NOT exist in NASCAR. Excuse me for wondering about what people REALLY think, not just what they say for public consumption.
 
Kyle Busch - Kansas 2019

After a penalty for driving through too many pit boxes on pit road: “Hahaha… anytime you [expletive] say anything, you get your [expletive] [expletive] handed to you.”

Kyle seems to be agreeing with you but now I don’t know whether or not to believe him because “not totally free to speak his mind.”
 
aunty dive said:
Kyle Busch - Kansas 2019

After a penalty for driving through too many pit boxes on pit road: “Hahaha… anytime you [expletive] say anything, you get your [expletive] [expletive] handed to you.”

Kyle seems to be agreeing with you but now I don’t know whether or not to believe him because “not totally free to speak his mind.”
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:XXROFL::XXROFL:
 
Formerjackman said:
What I'm telling you is that we don't have the SLIGHTEST idea whether that's what Harvick thinks about those cars, because ANYTHING that smacks of criticism could land him in hot water. Ultimately yes, you have to take what you are given and learn to deal with it good or bad, but that doesn't mean you don't have an honest opinion about it.
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I feel that Standonit's point is that it doesn't matter. What Harvick said is totally on point. What he thinks about the car isn't important to the product

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jaqua19 said:
I feel that Standonit's point is that it doesn't matter. What Harvick said is totally on point. What he thinks about the car isn't important to the product

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It's not that what thinks isn't important, it's what he thinks doesn't MATTER. The thing that concerns me is when comments made by people that aren't allowed to sat what they REALLY think is then used to represent a consensus of opinion that probably doesn't exist. Ask the 16 playoff drivers what they think of the playoff system, and you will get 16 versions of "it's OK or good", which is then by trumpeted by NASCAR as "proof" that they know what they are doing because all drivers agree with them, even if they really don't. Maybe that doesn't bug you, and that's fine, but it bugs the HELL out of me. :)
 
JGR bobble heads at LVMS
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Is there another televised professional sport that engenders this much contempt among fans for some of its most successful competitors?
 
Formerjackman said:
It's not that what thinks isn't important, it's what he thinks doesn't MATTER. The thing that concerns me is when comments made by people that aren't allowed to sat what they REALLY think is then used to represent a consensus of opinion that probably doesn't exist. Ask the 16 playoff drivers what they think of the playoff system, and you will get 16 versions of "it's OK or good", which is then by trumpeted by NASCAR as "proof" that they know what they are doing because all drivers agree with them, even if they really don't. Maybe that doesn't bug you, and that's fine, but it bugs the HELL out of me. :)
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How many of the 16 drivers in the 2019 version of the hated Playoffs ran a Cup race prior to 2004? There is no way for you or anyone else to know that one or more of these guys are secretly harboring a desire for NASCAR to revert to the Cretaceous Period.

Your endless rebuke of the sanctioning body’s “dictatorial censorship” of its competitors is without merit and borders on conspiratorial theorism. If you think we’ve heard the last negative comment about NASCAR, its cars, rules, race management, etc. from a competitor I suggest you wait a bit ... or tune into the 18 in-car on weekends.
 
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