RCR/Hendrick Engines

Formerjackman said:
Says the person that never straight up answers a question or offers an explanation, only smart ass remarks......
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You scoffed at the conclusions reached by the squadron of engineers that designed the RO7 race motor.

Just exactly what would be the point of offering you my explanation for anything?
 
aunty dive said:
You scoffed at the conclusions reached by the squadron of engineers that designed the RO7 race motor.

Just exactly what would be the point of offering you my explanation for anything?
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First off, I didn't scoff at anybody. I merely disputed some conclusions made by some keyboard jockeys that couldn't back up up their conclusions with any actual facts. To this day, not one person has been able to tell me what the length of an R07 pushrod is, so how can you conclude it is "short", whatever that may mean. I have also not seen anything in writing where the R07 has been described in that way. As I said in a previous post, if you are 6'4," and I am 6' 1", I am shorter than you, but not short in the grand scheme of things. When I think of a short pushrod engine, I think of something like the Illmor 265E pushrod Indycar engine. It is MY opinion that building an engine with pushrods roughly 15% shorter than a Small Block Chevy does NOT make it a "short pushrod" engine in the spirit of the term. You are free to disagree with that conclusion all you want, and I would welcome any honest discussion about it, but I sincerely wish you would leave your snotty ass know-it-all attitude at the door.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, SOME of us enjoy talking about engine design and theory. Others just choose to be obnoxious.
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Being obnoxious is your default position.

The information I provided months ago did not come from keyboard jockeys. A series of statements made by mechanical engineers who were directly involved in the design, simulations, production and testing of the RO7 were part of a larger published piece. I’m pretty sure I dropped a link. I’m too lazy to look.

Let’s just say you knew better. That’s me being polite.

I won’t take this any further. We’re annoying other people and I apologize to each of them for my part in that.
 
aunty dive said:
Being obnoxious is your default position.

The information I provided months ago did not come from keyboard jockeys. A series of statements made by mechanical engineers who were directly involved in the design, simulations, production and testing of the RO7 were part of a larger published piece. I’m pretty sure I dropped a link. I’m too lazy to look.

Let’s just say you knew better. That’s me being polite.

I won’t take this any further. We’re annoying other people and I apologize to each of them for my part in that.
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You never provided ANY information or a link to ANYTHING. All you did was attack my opinion that while the pushrods were probably shorter than a a SB2 or SB2.2, they really couldn't be considered short. I have followed this engine design since it was first announced to the public and have spent in total a good hour or so going over cutaway models of this engine in person and I have NEVER seen pushrod length mentioned in ANY way. I also pointed out with the gear rule and the reduced engine RPM the whole thing was pretty much meaningless, because the pushrods are no longer (if they ever really were) a weak link in Chevy engine design. Why is that you are the ONLY person on this forum that I can't have a reasonable conversation with, whether we agree on something or not?
 
I erred. I didn't drop the link. @KTMLew01 did that in this thread:

racing-forums.com

Engine Question

Does anyone have a “cut-a-way” pic of a cup engine? I’m interested in push rod length. I’m told they are relatively short. If so, I’d like to see how it’s done.
racing-forums.com racing-forums.com

White paper: Inside the Chevrolet R07 small-block V-8

For the first time since 1955, Team Chevy is introducing an all-new small-block V-8 engine in the top tier of stock car racing. The new Chevrolet R07 is the first purpose-built engine designed and...
www.reliableplant.com www.reliableplant.com
 
aunty dive said:
I erred. I didn't drop the link. @KTMLew01 did that in this thread:

racing-forums.com

Engine Question

Does anyone have a “cut-a-way” pic of a cup engine? I’m interested in push rod length. I’m told they are relatively short. If so, I’d like to see how it’s done.
racing-forums.com racing-forums.com

White paper: Inside the Chevrolet R07 small-block V-8

For the first time since 1955, Team Chevy is introducing an all-new small-block V-8 engine in the top tier of stock car racing. The new Chevrolet R07 is the first purpose-built engine designed and...
www.reliableplant.com www.reliableplant.com
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OK, now we are getting somewhere. Unfortunately, this sentence: "The raised cam operates pushrods that are correspondingly shorter and stiffer, thereby improving valvetrain dynamics at high rpm" doesn't really tell us anything. .0001 shorter, 1" shorter, 3" shorter? As someone who has written project overviews and proposals for work, I am very familiar with the practice of loading them up with all types of supposed benefits and improvements, from the truly game changing to the utterly trivial. Having inspected the R07 in person and having studied the photos I took many times over, I'll contend that unless you work on these engines every day, you wouldn't be able to spot the difference in the SB2.2 and the R07 pushrods unless they were laying on a table side by side. Does that make them relatively short? In my book, no. If you see it differently, that's fine, we can agree to disagree and move on.
 
Formerjackman said:
OK, now we are getting somewhere. Unfortunately, this sentence: "The raised cam operates pushrods that are correspondingly shorter and stiffer, thereby improving valvetrain dynamics at high rpm" doesn't really tell us anything. .0001 shorter, 1" shorter, 3" shorter? As someone who has written project overviews and proposals for work, I am very familiar with the practice of loading them up with all types of supposed benefits and improvements, from the truly game changing to the utterly trivial. Having inspected the R07 in person and having studied the photos I took many times over, I'll contend that unless you work on these engines every day, you wouldn't be able to spot the difference in the SB2.2 and the R07 pushrods unless they were laying on a table side by side. Does that make them relatively short? In my book, no. If you see it differently, that's fine, we can agree to disagree and move on.
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@Formerjackman, I've often been bewildered at the disdain you show for tiny improvements in performance, as well as very modest reductions in cost, or gains in reliability, etc. You proudly announce your own past involvement in racing, but act like you've never been near a racing operation. I guess you're not familiar with the concept of "stacking pennies," which I find surprising.

In my own race shop years ago, I knew I could boost peak horsepower and midrange torque by milling the heads to bump up compression, and porting the cylinders to improve high end flow volumes. I also thought I could gain a fraction of an inch in full-lean cornering clearance by recontouring the exhaust pipes... a difficult and time consuming project that would also complicate routine maintenance procedures... for a theoretical tiny gain in lap times. So which did I do, the engine work or the pipe recontour? Both. Because stacking pennies.

Whatever. Carry on. I'm out.
 
LewTheShoe said:
@Formerjackman, I've often been bewildered at the disdain you show for tiny improvements in performance, as well as very modest reductions in cost, or gains in reliability, etc. You proudly announce your own past involvement in racing, but act like you've never been near a racing operation. I guess you're not familiar with the concept of "stacking pennies," which I find surprising.

In my own race shop years ago, I knew I could boost peak horsepower and midrange torque by milling the heads to bump up compression, and porting the cylinders to improve high end flow volumes. I also thought I could gain a fraction of an inch in full-lean cornering clearance by recontouring the exhaust pipes... a difficult and time consuming project that would also complicate routine maintenance procedures... for a theoretical tiny gain in lap times. So which did I do, the engine work or the pipe recontour? Both. Because stacking pennies.

Whatever. Carry on. I'm out.
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Please don't misunderstand me. I fully understand ALL of this. My only issue is that ONE characteristic of the R07 engine was described in a way that I felt was overstated. That doesn't mean it is false or not important at all, just that it it was overstated. I also pointed out that while the "short pushrod" feature had some amount of value when the engine was designed, it is basically inconsequential now, because the engines are no longer allowed to turn anywhere near the RPM that made this change very important. I guess the problem I get into is that words MEAN things to me, and if something I am interested in is described in a way that I feel is inaccurate, I'm probably going to say something about it.
 
Formerjackman said:
Please don't misunderstand me. I fully understand ALL of this. My only issue is that ONE characteristic of the R07 engine was described in a way that I felt was overstated. That doesn't mean it is false or not important at all, just that it it was overstated. I also pointed out that while the "short pushrod" feature had some amount of value when the engine was designed, it is basically inconsequential now, because the engines are no longer allowed to turn anywhere near the RPM that made this change very important. I guess the problem I get into is that words MEAN things to me, and if something I am interested in is described in a way that I feel is inaccurate, I'm probably going to say something about it.
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Every truck driver has a cord to the left of his head.
That's so he can blow his own horn.
 
Team Penske said:
Every truck driver has a cord to the left of his head.
That's so he can blow his own horn.
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After using the pull cord for almost 40 years, when I started driving a Volvo 5 years ago "which you push the center of the steering wheel instead" I would a lot of times still reach for the cord that wasn't there anymore. The Volvo also has 2 buttons on the steering wheel for a car horn. When a kid would give me the a signal to blow the horn I would blow the car horn and they would have this rejected look on their face and then I would hit the air horn and they would get all excited. :)
 
Nitro Dude said:
After using the pull cord for almost 40 years, when I started driving a Volvo 5 years ago "which you push the center of the steering wheel instead" I would a lot of times still reach for the cord that wasn't there anymore. The Volvo also has 2 buttons on the steering wheel for a car horn. When a kid would give me the a signal to blow the horn I would blow the car horn and they would have this rejected look on their face and then I would hit the air horn and they would get all excited. :)
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I added some train horns on my truck pretty much hidden behind the front driver side wheel. Plenty of funny stories about kids along side in traffic with those things.
Here is my crazy ass trying them out

 
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StandOnIt said:
I added some train horns on my truck pretty much hidden behind the front driver side wheel. Plenty of funny stories about kids along side in traffic with those things.
Here is my crazy ass trying them out

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That is the same style Freightliner that I hauled Bob Bodes funny car around for 12 years. It had an annoying little rattle in the dash ever once in a while and I damn near had that whole dash out and I never did find it. That truck had some long legs on it though. There was a print out from Freightliner in the glove box and it was geared for 102 mph in 13th gear at 2100 rpm. If I remember right it had 355 rears in it but I could be wrong. The race car had 320 gears, I do know that because that has been the same rule for a long time.;)
 
Nitro Dude said:
That is the same style Freightliner that I hauled Bob Bodes funny car around for 12 years. It had an annoying little rattle in the dash ever once in a while and I damn near had that whole dash out and I never did find it. That truck had some long legs on it though. There was a print out from Freightliner in the glove box and it was geared for 102 mph in 13th gear at 2100 rpm. If I remember right it had 355 rears in it but I could be wrong. The race car had 320 gears, I do know that because that has been the same rule for a long time.;)
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Yeah I had over 79 thousand gross and did triple digits racing a couple other trucks on a deserted I 80 for a short bit. It was a rush. 355's
 
Nitro Dude said:
After using the pull cord for almost 40 years, when I started driving a Volvo 5 years ago "which you push the center of the steering wheel instead" I would a lot of times still reach for the cord that wasn't there anymore. The Volvo also has 2 buttons on the steering wheel for a car horn. When a kid would give me the a signal to blow the horn I would blow the car horn and they would have this rejected look on their face and then I would hit the air horn and they would get all excited. :)
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Our Volvos are like that too, but our Macks still have the cord pull. For whatever reason, the air horns now don't give us anywhere near the trouble they used to. We used to replace the horn assemblies all the time, and the valves would go bad too. Maybe it has to do with the newewr trucks having so much less water and oil in the air systems.
 
Formerjackman said:
Our Volvos are like that too, but our Macks still have the cord pull. For whatever reason, the air horns now don't give us anywhere near the trouble they used to. We used to replace the horn assemblies all the time, and the valves would go bad too. Maybe it has to do with the newewr trucks having so much less water and oil in the air systems.
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They shortened the pushrod.
 
Nitro Dude said:
After using the pull cord for almost 40 years, when I started driving a Volvo 5 years ago "which you push the center of the steering wheel instead" I would a lot of times still reach for the cord that wasn't there anymore. The Volvo also has 2 buttons on the steering wheel for a car horn. When a kid would give me the a signal to blow the horn I would blow the car horn and they would have this rejected look on their face and then I would hit the air horn and they would get all excited. :)
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Do kids still try to get a lot of air horn hits?
I was thinking they don't do it as much as they used to, and a little sad about the future of America as a result.
 
Greg said:
Do kids still try to get a lot of air horn hits?
I was thinking they don't do it as much as they used to, and a little sad about the future of America as a result.
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Actually the younger ones still do. But the teenagers are busy texting.:)
 
i always towed my racecar on a open trailer.when i first started every gas or food stop i signed autographs and talked to people,then came the cell phone.they never even look out side of the cars now
Nitro Dude said:
Actually the younger ones still do. But the teenagers are busy texting.:)
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