Rules

Flyer22

Flyer22

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We can talk about the TV ratings, attendance, package, ect all day...and we do. But what about the rules NASCAR has in place now that, imo, are ruining the race? We saw numerous "uncontrolled tire" penalties when it was shown on TV that the tire was, well, controlled.

NASCAR has become so "polished" that I think it is hurting the sport. Gone are the days of sending out the local tow truck to hook up the car and haul it back to pit lane where a guy with a cigarette, beer can and Bass Pro Shop ball cap went to work on the engine. I know, those days are long gone but...

again, back to the rules...to me it's a microcosm of numerous issues plaguing the sport.
 
Flyer22 said:
We can talk about the TV ratings, attendance, package, ect all day...and we do. But what about the rules NASCAR has in place now that, imo, are ruining the race? We saw numerous "uncontrolled tire" penalties when it was shown on TV that the tire was, well, controlled.

NASCAR has become so "polished" that I think it is hurting the sport. Gone are the days of sending out the local tow truck to hook up the car and haul it back to pit lane where a guy with a cigarette, beer can and Bass Pro Shop ball cap went to work on the engine. I know, those days are long gone but...

again, back to the rules...to me it's a microcosm of numerous issues plaguing the sport.
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I think the uncontrolled tire were over the top. As long as the tire in in the pit stall it belongs to, what's the problem?
 
Pat said:
I think the uncontrolled tire were over the top. As long as the tire in in the pit stall it belongs to, what's the problem?
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Ya, and I think that there are soooo many ticky tack rules (remember the two who had a hand over the wall?) that it takes away from the racing itself. So much is actually being determined by a rule book (mainly on pit road) and not by the drivers themselves.
 
Pat said:
I think the uncontrolled tire were over the top. As long as the tire in in the pit stall it belongs to, what's the problem?
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pretty evident when the monkeys in the trailer were calling a B.S. penalty that amounted to inches. Meanwhile the tire was sitting there static, wasn't putting anybody in harms way, and the stop was poetry in motion. Sorry but the all encompassing "safety" excuse is used way too much.
 
Pit road speeding is the one I hate the most especially under green. Should be no pit road speed limit under green.
 
They'll have to reevaluate uncontrolled tires in the offseason. It's affecting too many races. You handicapped these crews by taking a guy away last year, they're doing the absolute best they can as fast as they can with what they have and a tire that's slightly beyond reach is a problem? Just let the guys work. If the damn thing leaves the box then you've got a simple decision.
 
The whole arm's length thing...lord, we do not need another area where NASCAR's subjective judgement can influence a race so much. What the hell can they tell about someone's wingspan up there? If it actually leaves the box then there you go. They don't get them right anyways, just look at Texas last year with Blaney and Harvick.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
They'll have to reevaluate uncontrolled tires in the offseason. It's affecting too many races. You handicapped these crews by taking a guy away last year, they're doing the absolute best they can as fast as they can with what they have and a tire that's slightly beyond reach is a problem? Just let the guys work. If the damn thing leaves the box then you've got a simple decision.
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way too close to the "race control" B.S. some other series have used and you end up with people who have never raced controlling the race. Committees seldom work. Yesterday proved that. Instead of giving the teams the benefit of the call. They are making judgement calls that don't matter, but really screw up the race.
 
I would like to see Nascar pit stops become automated like some other series and do away with as many pit crew members as possible.

A very unpopular opinion to be sure but if everything is on the table I would throw this on.
 
Simple Fan said:
I was serious though, this is racing and they should get to race on pit road while it's green.
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I'll give your position some serious thought when YOU jump off that wall and start playing in pit road traffic. I've had the crap scared out of me on short tracks with a 35 MPH pit road speed. On a more serious note, you DO realize that if NASCAR rescinded that rule and someone got killed, NASCAR would be sued out of existence, don't you?
 
IanMcVittie said:
I would like to see Nascar pit stops become automated like some other series and do away with as many pit crew members as possible.

A very unpopular opinion to be sure but if everything is on the table I would throw this on.
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I'm totally the opposite. I thing other series should adopt the NASCAR way of doing things. I DO think it's absurd to ask five people to do the work seven people used to do. They turned a simple chassis adjustment into a three ring circus. I also think the uncontrolled tire rule is too subjective. If they are going to continue down that road, then the rule should be that the crewmember must be in physical contact with the tire at all times. Otherwise, just go back to keeping it in the pit box.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The whole arm's length thing...lord, we do not need another area where NASCAR's subjective judgement can influence a race so much. What the hell can they tell about someone's wingspan up there? If it actually leaves the box then there you go. They don't get them right anyways, just look at Texas last year with Blaney and Harvick.
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Exactly. I want them out of this decision as much as possible. Unless the team completely loses control of the tire outside of the box and are unable to retrieve it, or attempt to have a crew member venture outside of the box to retrieve it. I don't think it should be a penalty other than that.

They mess up the 'it can't leave the box' too when there's just a tire sitting idle on the pit box line.
 
Towards the end of the Texas race, I saw a crew member roll a tire towards the wall -- way more than an arms length away (in the middle of the roll) from the roller and the receiver. No penalty, but the static tire one gets a penalty?
Things like this feed the "Nascar fix" rumors.
 
We live in a country with laws open to interpretation (hence, the judicial system), yet we teach our children that there is no interpretation. NASCAR rules are enforced like we teach our children. The pit road penalty on Hamlin was a joke. There was no advantage. There was no safety issue. Nobody saw it except the stupid pit road monitoring system. I am glad, however, that NASCAR has gone back to a more private and behind the scenes enforcement of the inspection rules. That way, there can be flexibility in interpretation in this social media saturated world. Seven races. No DQ's? Did everybody get more honest? Naw. Pit road needs to be managed the same way. Keep the focus on the racing.
 
After Blaney blew up yesteraday, his pit crew pushed his car backwards a good 50 yards to go behind the wall, they ran it all the way out alongside the grass on pit road, under green flag conditions. What if someone takes a spin through the grass at that moment? They all just book it for the wall or what?

I would love to hear the safety explanation on that one from NASCAR, compared to a wheel sitting on pit road.
 
For the tires, my feeling, if the tires are inside the pit box lines then its fair game, as it goes along with the "all equipment must stay inside the pitbox lines", once a tire is outside of the lines, yep, give the team a penalty.
 
Revman said:
We live in a country with laws open to interpretation (hence, the judicial system), yet we teach our children that there is no interpretation. NASCAR rules are enforced like we teach our children. The pit road penalty on Hamlin was a joke. There was no advantage. There was no safety issue. Nobody saw it except the stupid pit road monitoring system. I am glad, however, that NASCAR has gone back to a more private and behind the scenes enforcement of the inspection rules. That way, there can be flexibility in interpretation in this social media saturated world. Seven races. No DQ's? Did everybody get more honest? Naw. Pit road needs to be managed the same way. Keep the focus on the racing.
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Put that way, I'm kinda glad Hamlin ended up winning.
 
FLRacingFan said:
That's actually insane.[/QUO
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Formerjackman said:
I'll give your position some serious thought when YOU jump off that wall and start playing in pit road traffic. I've had the crap scared out of me on short tracks with a 35 MPH pit road speed. On a more serious note, you DO realize that if NASCAR rescinded that rule and someone got killed, NASCAR would be sued out of existence, don't you?
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It's racing, it's supposed to be insane and dangerous.
 
Turtle84 said:
After Blaney blew up yesteraday, his pit crew pushed his car backwards a good 50 yards to go behind the wall, they ran it all the way out alongside the grass on pit road, under green flag conditions. What if someone takes a spin through the grass at that moment? They all just book it for the wall or what?

I would love to hear the safety explanation on that one from NASCAR, compared to a wheel sitting on pit road.
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Common sense messes everything up man.
 
Simple Fan said:
It's racing, it's supposed to be insane and dangerous.
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You seem to view the people who would be affected and inevitably maimed and / or killed by such whims as pawns for your entertainment more than as fellow humans.

There is a crucial difference between enjoying as a spectator a competition or exhibition that brings with it unavoidable dangers vs. actively wishing for such an event to be more dangerous so as to derive pleasure from it.
 
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AdoubleU24 said:
They'll have to reevaluate uncontrolled tires in the offseason. It's affecting too many races. You handicapped these crews by taking a guy away last year, they're doing the absolute best they can as fast as they can with what they have and a tire that's slightly beyond reach is a problem? Just let the guys work. If the damn thing leaves the box then you've got a simple decision.
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Why can't they re-evaluate it while they are re-evaluating qualifying. Not everything needs to wait for next season.
 
gnomesayin said:
You seem to view the people who would be affected and inevitably maimed and / or killed by such whims as pawns for your entertainment more than as fellow humans.

There is a crucial difference between enjoying as a spectator a competition or exhibition that brings with it unavoidable dangers vs. actively wishing for such an event to be more dangerous so as to derive pleasure from it.
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gees man you have described football for lands sake.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Every new rule that is written which contains “at nascar’s discretion” is a steaming pile. Concepting a rule based on split second human judgement is a rule based in fallacy. Every rule should be as obvious as black and white.

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/observer/snap-judgment-science

This is also a fun read: https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a13530266/the-1969-nascar-rule-book-was-shockingly-simple/
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Those rules were pretty good. They did go back three model years, and many things to keep the public interest up. There used to be the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" effect at the car dealers, that is long gone as these are just dedicated race cars, made to resemble a stock model "resemble", but don't actually try those templates on a stock Camaro, Mustang or Toyota. Won't fit.

Still I do like Nascar, just sad to see how far they drifted from their roots.
 
flash242g said:
I'm sure the family of the man who was on Bill Elliott's pit crew that was killed at Atlanta in 1990 would have a different opinion.
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Irrelevant as that accident happened under caution and I only suggested having no speed limit for green flag stops.

gnomesayin said:
You seem to view the people who would be affected and inevitably maimed and / or killed by such whims as pawns for your entertainment more than as fellow humans.

There is a crucial difference between enjoying as a spectator a competition or exhibition that brings with it unavoidable dangers vs. actively wishing for such an event to be more dangerous so as to derive pleasure from it.
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They're not pawns for anything, they know the risk that being involved in motorsports brings. If it gets too dangerous for them they can quit.

I'm not so sure it'd be as catastrophic as you guys lead on though. I think NASCAR could figure out a way to make it safer than before and might involve having even less crew members over the wall.
 
Simple Fan said:
Irrelevant as that accident happened under caution and I only suggested having no speed limit for green flag stops.



They're not pawns for anything, they know the risk that being involved in motorsports brings. If it gets too dangerous for them they can quit.

I'm not so sure it'd be as catastrophic as you guys lead on though. I think NASCAR could figure out a way to make it safer than before and might involve having even less crew members over the wall.
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So your answer is to increase danger and relieve people of their jobs.

How many people have lost their life, or even been critically injured on pitroad since 1991? Don’t fix what isn’t broken.
 
Simple Fan said:
Pit road speeding is the one I hate the most especially under green. Should be no pit road speed limit under green.
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Disagree. Many current drivers are to stupid to use caution and you would see every one of them sliding right through their pit box. Many of them can't make a pit stop now even under caution.
Make the speed limit "the speed limit" and forget that +5 business.
 
I will take the speed limit rule at face-value -- that it is to enhance Pit Road Safety.

The controversy for Pit Road Speeding seems improperly directed at the drivers trying to divine and adjust their speed on Pit Road, while pushing to the very edge of the rule so they don't lose any positions on Pit Road.

However, it should be directed at the driver running the correct speed -- especially as it is deemed a SAFETY Factor. THAT being the case, NASCAR should give the drivers actual instrumentation (speedometer) to use to ensure they can monitor and adjust their speed accurately, and eliminate the 5 mph variance from the stated speed limit for that track.

But NASCAR would rather amp up the drama of drivers using their Tach, dummy lights, and 5 mph leeway for entertainment penalties to be handed out on Pit Road. That is absurd if Safety is the reason for the Rule.
 
Ventisca said:
I will take the speed limit rule at face-value -- that it is to enhance Pit Road Safety.

The controversy for Pit Road Speeding seems improperly directed at the drivers trying to divine and adjust their speed on Pit Road, while pushing to the very edge of the rule so they don't lose any positions on Pit Road.

However, it should be directed at the driver running the correct speed -- especially as it is deemed a SAFETY Factor. THAT being the case, NASCAR should give the drivers actual instrumentation (speedometer) to use to ensure they can monitor and adjust their speed accurately, and eliminate the 5 mph variance from the stated speed limit for that track.

But NASCAR would rather amp up the drama of drivers using their Tach, dummy lights, and 5 mph leeway for entertainment penalties to be handed out on Pit Road. That is absurd if Safety is the reason for the Rule.
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uh no, those instruments are for the drivers to help them run pit road speeds that Nascar sets. Nascar gives them up to 5 over without a penalty which most drivers can stay under. Hamlin is a slow learner.
 
StandOnIt said:
uh no, those instruments are for the drivers to help them run pit road speeds that Nascar sets. Nascar gives them up to 5 over without a penalty which most drivers can stay under. Hamlin is a slow learner.
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uh no, speedometers work -- that is a fact

what you are saying is an absurd derivative of a speedometer by contrived means
 
Ventisca said:
uh no, speedometers work -- that is a fact

what you are saying is an absurd derivative of a speedometer by contrived means
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you probably need to do some more studying about types of instrumentation and their accuracy. The human factor is the problem.
 
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