Ryan Newman and Matt Kenseth receive playoff waivers.

Brentford

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 18, 2016
Messages
2,079
Points
243
Location
SW Missouri
It's weird that Kenseth got a waiver imo, but I'm not bothered by it either way. As long as Byron makes the chase, I don't care who else does.
 

AndyMarquisLive

I love short track racing with all my heart
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
65,446
Points
1,033
Location
A short track somewhere
So how is that different than the PGA then? I spend hundreds of dollars and take time off work to go see the Golden Widget 500, only to find out my favorite driver decided to take the week off.
Because it's not likely.

As it stands, you could spend hundreds of dollars and take time off work to go see the Golden Widget 500, only to find out your favorite driver is sick or injured and won't be racing.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
Because it's not likely.

As it stands, you could spend hundreds of dollars and take time off work to go see the Golden Widget 500, only to find out your favorite driver is sick or injured and won't be racing.
Well fortunately, in forty years of going to races, it has never happened to me personally, although I know others that it has. All I'm trying to figure out is why you think it's important for drivers to have the option when you think almost nobody will ever use it?
 

AndyMarquisLive

I love short track racing with all my heart
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
65,446
Points
1,033
Location
A short track somewhere
Well fortunately, in forty years of going to races, it has never happened to me personally, although I know others that it has. All I'm trying to figure out is why you think it's important for drivers to have the option when you think almost nobody will ever use it?
I have the right to go buy a gun right now, even though I don't want or need one.
 

Blaze

Peace Keeper
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
22,195
Points
1,033
Location
Crawford County, GA
I'm not the one complaining that somebody has a different opinion than my own.
Technically, if someone giving you their opinion is them complaining, than you are complaining. All I’ve seen is people just debating with you and the other guy. No one is complaining here lol.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
I have the right to go buy a gun right now, even though I don't want or need one.
Well there IS a difference between a Constitutionally given right and rules for a sport. If you are going to let people skip races, are you then going to put in a mechanism so those missed races don't count against their total? That goes back to the idea of only counting your X-number of best finishes, something else I have never been in favor of.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
Technically, if someone giving you their opinion is them complaining, than you are complaining. All I’ve seen is people just debating with you and the other guy. No one is complaining here lol.
I'm talking about a couple of people here that would rather dismiss people out of hand than have to explain or defend their point of view.
 

hidesert cowboy

Team Owner
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
1,245
Points
293
So if Larson failed a drug test and got fired would that mean the replacement driver gets a waiver too?
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,413
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
So if Larson failed a drug test and got fired would that mean the replacement driver gets a waiver too?
I don't think some are getting it. Nascar who owns the whole enchalata can exclude with just cause(actions detrimental to stock car racing) anybody they want. The same goes for including into their racing series.
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
2,379
Points
343
Why are we talking about playoffs at all? Unless we can run the same amount of races, the playoffs should be abbreviated as well
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,413
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Yeah, Nascar can change the whole ball game, requirements, eligibility, playoffs, whatever. With a little negotiation with SMI they can go to almost any track they want.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
I don't think some are getting it. Nascar who owns the whole enchalata can exclude with just cause(actions detrimental to stock car racing) anybody they want. The same goes for including into their racing series.
Granted, they CAN do it. The question is SHOULD they do and and WILL they be taken seriously when they do?
 

Privateer

Team Owner
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Messages
253
Points
123
So if Larson in theory was picked up by Front Row Racing full-time in June, would he be granted a waiver?

I do find the whole system ridiculous. The cutoff at 30 doesn't mean anything for a full-time driver when I think last year there were 31 full-time Cup drivers receiving points. I could deal with 25 although even then it's "you have to win and be in the top 80 percent!"
 

Charlie Spencer

Short tracks and road courses.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
21,617
Points
883
Location
Lexington, SC
You start that, and you will get the racing version of the PGA where you pay big money to attend so you can watch guys you have hardly heard of trying to break into the top 125 while Tiger, Phil, Rory and company are at home sitting on the beach. Think John Deere Open.
I'd agree with you IF the PGA placed the same value on each tournament. Instead, its standings are partially based on how much money each player wins, and not all tournaments have the same payout. That's one of the reasons NASCAR went to a points system way back when, to encourage drivers to participate in every race.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
I'd agree with you IF the PGA placed the same value on each tournament. Instead, its standings are partially based on how much money each player wins, and not all tournaments have the same payout. That's one of the reasons NASCAR went to a points system way back when, to encourage drivers to participate in every race.
 

AndyMarquisLive

I love short track racing with all my heart
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
Messages
65,446
Points
1,033
Location
A short track somewhere
Well there IS a difference between a Constitutionally given right and rules for a sport. If you are going to let people skip races, are you then going to put in a mechanism so those missed races don't count against their total? That goes back to the idea of only counting your X-number of best finishes, something else I have never been in favor of.
There really isn't a difference in my example.

I CAN buy a gun but choose not to.

Under my proposal, drivers CAN miss a race. It's not like they'd all just sit out a bunch of races though. They're still racers.

If NASCAR's that concerned about it, they could change the playoff eligibility to where you have to finish in the top-20 or top-25 in points. I don't even know what it is right now because NASCAR changes so much **** and I can't keep up with it anymore and don't care one bit about the championship anymore because of the playoffs.

NASCAR opened this can of worms when they let Kyle Busch miss 11 races. Anything goes.
 

Blaze

Peace Keeper
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
22,195
Points
1,033
Location
Crawford County, GA
There really isn't a difference in my example.

I CAN buy a gun but choose not to.

Under my proposal, drivers CAN miss a race. It's not like they'd all just sit out a bunch of races though. They're still racers.

If NASCAR's that concerned about it, they could change the playoff eligibility to where you have to finish in the top-20 or top-25 in points. I don't even know what it is right now because NASCAR changes so much **** and I can't keep up with it anymore and don't care one bit about the championship anymore because of the playoffs.

NASCAR opened this can of worms when they let Kyle Busch miss 11 races. Anything goes.
I could see SOME maybe skip the plane tracks. But other than that nah.
 

sdj

Just a race fan
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
5,296
Points
793
Location
In the woods (as much as possible)
I'd agree with you IF the PGA placed the same value on each tournament. Instead, its standings are based on how much money each player wins, and not all tournaments have the same payout. That's one of the reasons NASCAR went to a points system way back when, to encourage drivers to participate in every race.
PRO Rodeo works the same way.
 

OldTimer

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
559
Points
123
As much as I didn't like that, at least that was for a reason that was stipulated when the rule was put in place. NASCAR just pulled one out of their ass with the Kenseth ruling. Just as in regular life, none of these rulings happen in a vacuum and it's NEVER the end of something, only the begining. Just wait and see what stupid ass reasons will be given for seeking waivers going forward.
You are having a hard time with this aren't you? Is it Kenseth, the rules, or all of the above? Do not worry so much...quite sure that the #42 will make it to victory lane....and then possibly the chase too. Enjoy the rest of the season, it will be special... one for the history books, mark my words.
 

OldTimer

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
559
Points
123
Well there IS a difference between a Constitutionally given right and rules for a sport. If you are going to let people skip races, are you then going to put in a mechanism so those missed races don't count against their total? That goes back to the idea of only counting your X-number of best finishes, something else I have never been in favor of.
A mechanism like Social Security where you only use the top 30 or so? By the way, the Bill of Rights is not what the Constitution gives, it is what the government cannot do.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
You are having a hard time with this aren't you? Is it Kenseth, the rules, or all of the above? Do not worry so much...quite sure that the #42 will make it to victory lane....and then possibly the chase too. Enjoy the rest of the season, it will be special... one for the history books, mark my words.
I like rules that are clear, concise, consistent, are applied equally to EVERYBODY, and don't bend in the wind. I have nothing against Matt or Chip, I just think it's a decision based on convenience, not a decision based on principle, and that's a concept I'm not in favor of.
 

Biggreen695

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
1,145
Points
223
If I remember correctly Kyle Busch was told if he could meet the requirements (top whatever in points and win a race) than he was elligible... if he could do it like than so should everyone else

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,413
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
I like rules that are clear, concise, consistent, are applied equally to EVERYBODY, and don't bend in the wind. I have nothing against Matt or Chip, I just think it's a decision based on convenience, not a decision based on principle, and that's a concept I'm not in favor of.
There are exceptions to every rule, surely you should know that. And anybody who has followed the sport for any time should be aware of that. It was barbaric to have drivers racing in the cars with broken or sprained body parts to follow a rule. Nobody in their right mind wanted Newman behind the wheel because of a potential brain injury.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
There are exceptions to every rule, surely you should know that. And anybody who has followed the sport for any time should be aware of that. It was barbaric to have drivers racing in the cars with broken or sprained body parts to follow a rule. Nobody in their right mind wanted Newman behind the wheel because of a potential brain injury.
In any other sport, if you get hurt and can't compete, you lose your season. That's just the way the cookie crumbles in my opinion, but NASCAR made a provision for THAT situation. I may not agree with it, but it was stated up front and in the Kyle Busch case and now in the Newman case, it has been applied as intended. I will accept that, just as I do do with the playoffs that I despise. The Kenseth waiver is just out of left field. I understand that NASCAR LOVES to have exceptions, but that's just another reason why non-NASCAR fans look down on it as less that honest or serious sport. As I alluded to in another post, waivers should be reserved for acts of God, not acts of stupidity (the driver) and just plain bad luck (the team and sponsors).
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
If I remember correctly Kyle Busch was told if he could meet the requirements (top whatever in points and win a race) than he was elligible... if he could do it like than so should everyone else

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Technically correct, but to be eligible for "win a race and be in the top 30" rule to qualify for the playoffs, Kyle had to get a waiver because the rule states you have to enter all 26 races. Kyle met the terms of the rule, but STILL would have been ineligible for the playoffs without the waiver.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,413
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
In any other sport, if you get hurt and can't compete, you lose your season. That's just the way the cookie crumbles in my opinion, but NASCAR made a provision for THAT situation. I may not agree with it, but it was stated up front and in the Kyle Busch case and now in the Newman case, it has been applied as intended. I will accept that, just as I do do with the playoffs that I despise. The Kenseth waiver is just out of left field. I understand that NASCAR LOVES to have exceptions, but that's just another reason why non-NASCAR fans look down on it as less that honest or serious sport. As I alluded to in another post, waivers should be reserved for acts of God, not acts of stupidity (the driver) and just plain bad luck (the team and sponsors).
now it's comparing it to other sports? Nonsense. You don't have any control or financial stake in Nascar and apparently can't see reasoning behind what people do that have one. So in your best thinking, Chip should just park the 42.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,413
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Technically correct, but to be eligible for "win a race and be in the top 30" rule to qualify for the playoffs, Kyle had to get a waiver because the rule states you have to enter all 26 races. Kyle met the terms of the rule, but STILL would have been ineligible for the playoffs without the waiver.
under the old rules, which you seem so in love with. All Chip would have to do is put Larson (remember relief drivers?) in the car for one lap and then put Kenseth in for the rest of the race...and give Larson credit for all of the races...stupid. Drag Newman out of the hospital to run a couple of laps..
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
now it's comparing it to other sports? Nonsense. You don't have any control or financial stake in Nascar and apparently can't see reasoning behind what people do that have one. So in your best thinking, Chip should just park the 42.
No, Chip would just have to accept that he probably wouldn't have a shot at the championship this year, which I think MOST people would agree he doesn't have anyway regardless which driver was in the car. If we are going to tie the rules in knots every time a car owner runs into a situation that is painful financially, where does it end?
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
44,413
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
No, Chip would just have to accept that he probably wouldn't have a shot at the championship this year, which I think MOST people would agree he doesn't have anyway regardless which driver was in the car. If we are going to tie the rules in knots every time a car owner runs into a situation that is painful financially, where does it end?
it doesn't end, it is called a waiver
 
  • Like
Reactions: sdj

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
3,532
Points
343
under the old rules, which you seem so in love with. All Chip would have to do is put Larson (remember relief drivers?) in the car for one lap and then put Kenseth in for the rest of the race...and give Larson credit for all of the races...stupid. Drag Newman out of the hospital to run a couple of laps..
In both cases, no because Larson is suspended, so he cannot compete for the foreseeable future (don't think the sponsors would fall for it anyway) and Newman would have to be medically cleared before he could get in for even one lap, and that would just not happen in the modern NASCAR, and that is NOT a bad thing. The day's of a shattered leg Darrell Waltrip getting poured into a car to make a lap are LONG gone. The way I see the 42 situation, Chip and the sponsors made a decision that they were better off WITHOUT Larson in the car, championship opportunity lost or not, so what if the problem? They were obviously more worried about their image than winning a championship (not that I disagree with that decision) so let them race without the likelihood of a championship opportunity.
 
Top Bottom