Should Nascar give Kyle Larson a waiver?

FLRacingFan said:
Jordan is a great insider but when it comes to opinions, he seems to take the edgy position for the sake of being edgy. Maybe that’s the way they draw it up.

He pretty much laid out the reasons why it could hurt despite the waiver anyways, so I don’t see the reasoning for potentially not awarding one. And I don’t see any precedent-setting or slippery slope - the number of other non-NASCAR events this would ever apply to is effectively zero.
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eeee yep. It's B.S.
 
StandOnIt said:
Rev and Joe have no idea and wonder why their drivers get boo'd so loudly.
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You are so full of crap....When Bell is intro'ed, it is astonishing how little reaction there is...Truex same thing......but you go kid.
 
Revman said:
You are so full of crap....When Bell is intro'ed, it is astonishing how little reaction there is...Truex same thing......but you go kid.
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It's nothing compared to Larson. When Bell and Larson showed up for a dirt Sprint or midget race, you could flip a coin about who was going to win. Bell lost a lot of fans for sold out Joe and the ti-yotas B.S. (I love that, thanks RP). I like Bell, fellow Okie, I watched him compete at Hahn's Creek County track south of me. It's total B.S. that screwball Joe is taking a career away from one of the best in the world on a dirt track.
 
StandOnIt said:
Bell lost a lot of fans for sold out Joe and the ti-yotas B.S.
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In the great words of @Nitro Dude ....Do you have a source to support your claim?
Funny that you have Coach taking a career away from Bell. It is my understanding that he doesn't have one without TRD and JGR. Regardless, who forced him to sign?
 
Revman said:
In the great words of @Nitro Dude ....Do you have a source to support your claim?
Funny that you have Coach taking a career away from Bell. It is my understanding that he doesn't have one without TRD and JGR. Regardless, who forced him to sign?
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I guess you are going to tell me that racing in the World of Outlaws, High Limit, USAC, Chili Bowl and other major events doesn't matter for the fan base next.
 
StandOnIt said:
I guess you are going to tell me that racing in the World of Outlaws, High Limit, USAC, Chili Bowl and other major events doesn't matter for the fan base next.
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The questions were.....Do you have anything to support your claim that fans are pissed at Bell....and...Was he forced to sign his NASCAR contract?
 
Revman said:
The questions were.....Do you have anything to support your claim that fans are pissed at Bell....and...Was he forced to sign his NASCAR contract?
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Never said fans were pissed off at Bell. Pissed off at sold out Joe is another story. We've been thru this before. I still have the clip with Bell laying the blame smack dab on the preachers little pointed head while on a dirt track pod cast. Time for you to move on, the damage has already been done to Bell's career.
 
I’m fine with Larson getting a waiver. He is a multi talented wheelman and I really really liked seeing him run the 500.

I had not seen a complete IndyCar race in forever. I tuned into the 500 due to Larson and have now set the DVR to record all IndyCar races. I didn’t see that happening but I’m glad it did.
 
StandOnIt said:
I guess you are going to tell me that racing in the World of Outlaws, High Limit, USAC, Chili Bowl and other major events doesn't matter for the fan base next.
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He will try. 😉🙂My top 3 races I look forward to the most every year are the Indy500 and there has never been any other race that gives the Indy race any competition. They are in a league of their own for me. Next would be the Chili Bowl Nationals and coming in number 3 would have to be the Daytona 500 and number 4 for good measure would be the Coca Cola 600 mainly because it’s a double header with Indy.
 
StandOnIt said:
Joe is taking a career away from one of the best in the world on a dirt track.
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Then maybe Bell should pursue a career in dirt track racing? Joe took nothing, he gave him an opportunity in stock cars and set the parameters necessary to protect his investment.

To answer the thread, he should get a waiver. The Indy 500 is a top 3 biggest race in the world and you only get so many chances to win it.
 
If a driver can get a waiver for being injured in a non-racing accident, then Larson should get one too. If they don't give Larson one, then do away with them altogether.
 
MRM said:
If a driver can get a waiver for being injured in a non-racing accident, then Larson should get one too. If they don't give Larson one, then do away with them altogether.
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I think a waiver for a non-racing related injury is more credible than skipping a race to run another race.

What if Larson decides to run the Knoxville Nationals then says he won't run NASCAR the next day? Should he still get one? Would he get one? What if another driver decides to run Le Mans?

The argument is straight up coming down to "it's Kyle Larson," "it's Hendrick Motorsports," and "publicity."
 
This wouldn't even merit a conversation if NASCAR said you had to finish in the top-20 in points to be eligible for the playoffs.

But again, NASCAR is secretly hoping some backmarker team accidentally wins a race and makes the playoffs.
 
acmerocket said:
just read indy had 5.3 million viewer,i would say that allot people like me that watch the whole thing was because Kyle was there.no way to count them.but it dam sure helped.
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Was only a single digit increase. There were a lot of people watching solely because of Kyle Larson, but it damn sure wasn't in the millions like the hyperbole on social media claims. And Indy 500 probably got a boost from late start/primetime finish too.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I think a waiver for a non-racing related injury is more credible than skipping a race to run another race.

What if Larson decides to run the Knoxville Nationals then says he won't run NASCAR the next day? Should he still get one? Would he get one? What if another driver decides to run Le Mans?

The argument is straight up coming down to "it's Kyle Larson," "it's Hendrick Motorsports," and "publicity."
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None of those cases are applicable to this one. Aside from being hypothetical doing the double in most cases would not require a waiver and this conversation wouldn't being happening were it not for the bad weather.

The plan was a good one for Nascar and bought a real positive and more eyes to this edition of the 600. Larson also made a good faith effort and was available to complete the 600 after having qualified for the race.

He jumped through every conceivable hoop and it would have been ridiculous for him to stop and withdraw from the 500 during the middle of the race after so much had been invested into the effort.

I would reiterate that Larsons particpaton in the 500 and running well was a win for the Nascar brand. He sacrificed the cup points and disqualifying him from the playoffs would be the kind of stupidity that only F1 can match.
 
Greg said:
None of those cases are applicable to this one. Aside from being hypothetical doing the double in most cases would not require a waiver and this conversation wouldn't being happening were it not for the bad weather.

The plan was a good one for Nascar and bought a real positive and more eyes to this edition of the 600. Larson also made a good faith effort and was available to complete the 600 after having qualified for the race.

He jumped through every conceivable hoop and it would have been ridiculous for him to stop and withdraw from the 500 during the middle of the race after so much had been invested into the effort.

I would reiterate that Larsons particpaton in the 500 and running well was a win for the Nascar brand. He sacrificed the cup points and disqualifying him from the playoffs would be the kind of stupidity that only F1 can match.
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None of this should matter.

The waiver stuff is already a joke, but once NASCAR grants waivers because "it brought publicity to the sport," it's lost all credibility and NASCAR has no standing to ever deny another waiver. Which they will.

And honestly, did the Kyle Larson double draw ANY new viewers to the sport?

I know we've got people claiming they never heard of the Indy 500 before now, but that's total BS.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I think a waiver for a non-racing related injury is more credible than skipping a race to run another race.
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How about a waiver for a suspension? Same driver as the injury, as I recall, in the same season, and definitely not good publicity for the series.

The waiver system as currently implemented is a crapshoot. Drop it. Drivers aren't going to start missing races wholesale.
 
Greg said:
None of those cases are applicable to this one. Aside from being hypothetical doing the double in most cases would not require a waiver and this conversation wouldn't being happening were it not for the bad weather.

The plan was a good one for Nascar and bought a real positive and more eyes to this edition of the 600. Larson also made a good faith effort and was available to complete the 600 after having qualified for the race.

He jumped through every conceivable hoop and it would have been ridiculous for him to stop and withdraw from the 500 during the middle of the race after so much had been invested into the effort.

I would reiterate that Larsons particpaton in the 500 and running well was a win for the Nascar brand. He sacrificed the cup points and disqualifying him from the playoffs would be the kind of stupidity that only F1 can match.
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Greg sums up my opinion on the waiver very well... it was a force majeure absence due to weather, after jumping through all the hoops to race the 600. So grant the waiver.

I support the rule that a playoff driver has to have run all the races, and I think waivers should be very limited. An injury sustained during a Nascar event should get a waiver. Bona fide illness should. Childbirth too. And a force majeure case like this. Other absences are un-excused and waivers will not be granted. Just my dos centavos.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
This wouldn't even merit a conversation if NASCAR said you had to finish in the top-20 in points to be eligible for the playoffs.

But again, NASCAR is secretly hoping some backmarker team accidentally wins a race and makes the playoffs.
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Only to get smashed in the first round and then out. For 3 races. It's just so stupid.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Greg sums up my opinion on the waiver very well... it was a force majeure absence due to weather, after jumping through all the hoops to race the 600. So grant the waiver.

I support the rule that a playoff driver has to have run all the races, and I think waivers should be very limited. An injury sustained during a Nascar event should get a waiver. Bona fide illness should. Childbirth too. And a force majeure case like this. Other absences are un-excused and waivers will not be granted. Just my dos centavos.
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I will need to Google some of the words but I agree completely with everything I understood.
 
acmerocket said:
just read indy had 5.3 million viewer,i would say that allot people like me that watch the whole thing was because Kyle was there.no way to count them.but it dam sure helped.
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It peaked at almost 6.5 million. Considering there was a 4 hour rain delay, that's a damn good number.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I know we've got people claiming they never heard of the Indy 500 before now, but that's total BS.
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I know you dont believe that someone if they're an auto racing fan would not know what the Indy 500 is, but I would bet there were NASCAR fans watching an IndyCar race for the first time in forever and maybe you'll get an IndyCar fan tuning into this week's NASCAR race all because of Larson. But maybe I'm just naive.
 
At this point =


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If it were up to me, I'd junk the waivers and the points you earn are the points you earn, but since that is NOT the system we have, then I think that anyone who makes a true good faith attempt to run all the races should be eligible for a waiver. It was NEVER Kyle's intention to miss the 600, so why should he been penalized for it? The same goes for Chase. He didn't CHOOSE to go snowboarding instead of showing up and racing, he had an unfortunate accident that prevented him from racing. He could just as easily tripped on the front step going to get the mail and had the same injury. Would THAT have justified not being able to compete for the playoffs? As for his suspension waiver, whether you agree or disagree with the suspension, it basically took the decision to compete the next week out of Chase's hands. Not giving a waiver for the suspension makes that penalty 100 times more harsh than it was intended to be. Would THAT have been fair? If you want drivers to automatically get barred from the chance to make the playoffs because of a suspension, write THAT into the rulebook instead of making it an awkward byproduct of another disciplinary action.
 
AlTerego said:
I’m fine with Larson getting a waiver. He is a multi talented wheelman and I really really liked seeing him run the 500.

I had not seen a complete IndyCar race in forever. I tuned into the 500 due to Larson and have now set the DVR to record all IndyCar races. I didn’t see that happening but I’m glad it did.
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When I went to Texas, it was a great race! With that said, I still can't get into their road races, but I do try tuning in to the ovals.
 
2 pages of arguments all for nothing. Larson will get the waiver. It was done before the race ever started at Indy. Its NASCARs game and its silly to think they would or should leave the best driver in Cup out of the playoffs. But by all means continue. Everyone should thank KL for attempting this tremendous task. This isn't a movie,it was real people with real intentions to showcase our sport. I feel bad for the guy but I knew this was gonna happen.
 
Spotter22 said:
2 pages of arguments all for nothing. Larson will get the waiver. It was done before the race ever started at Indy. Its NASCARs game and its silly to think they would or should leave the best driver in Cup out of the playoffs. But by all means continue. Everyone should thank KL for attempting this tremendous task. This isn't a movie,it was real people with real intentions to showcase our sport. I feel bad for the guy but I knew this was gonna happen.
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Kyle wishes it were a movie, because if it were, he would have won the Indy 500, won the Coke 600, then went on to win the Cup Championship.
 
Brentford said:
Kyle wishes it were a movie, because if it were, he would have won the Indy 500, won the Coke 600, then went on to win the Cup Championship.
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My movie would have me winning all of that and a lot more.
 
Larson had a documentary crew following him around so Larson didn't have to imagine he was in a movie FWIW.
 
Spotter22 said:
2 pages of arguments all for nothing. Larson will get the waiver. It was done before the race ever started at Indy. Its NASCARs game and its silly to think they would or should leave the best driver in Cup out of the playoffs. But by all means continue. Everyone should thank KL for attempting this tremendous task. This isn't a movie,it was real people with real intentions to showcase our sport. I feel bad for the guy but I knew this was gonna happen.
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I don't think this discussion is "for nothing" at all. It's a discussion that many people have had, and are still having in the industry. And I would say that more people than not are annoyed that Kyle will get the waiver, and they are annoyed that he chose (that's the operative word here folks...he "CHOSE") to miss the 600. He put the Indy 500 first. That doesn't sit well with many.

Did him doing the double bring attention to NASCAR? Sure, I guess. But that's not why he did it. He did it because he wanted to. Period. That's the end of the list of reasons why it happened. Anything else is just a byproduct. And I am 100% cool with drivers doing things because they want to. It's their right. I would support any driver racing in different series. I 100% support Chase snowboarding. Who cares. But Kyle ran the Indy 500 because Kyle wanted to. That's the only thing that should be on trial in this thread.

How do I feel about it? It's pretty simple...and I think Andy touched on it several times in this thread...the waiver rule was put in place for this EXACT situation. If you're able to race in a NASCAR event, then you better show up (and make no mistake about it..Kyle was plenty able. He chose not to. That's where it differs from injuries and suspensions, etc). And as long as that rule is there, he should NOT be granted a waiver, he should have come back for the 600. Do I think that's fair? No, it's a stupid rule that's written pretty black and white in an otherwise grey world. Was I happy Kyle stayed for the 500 instead of the 600? Personally, absolutely. Made watching the 500 that much more fun for me. If I were a Kyle fan, would I have wanted him to stay? Personally, absolutely. I've seen Kyle win a zillion NASCAR events, would be super cool to watch him at Indy. But, he broke the rule for selfish reasons. It's really that simple.

(Plus...if Kyle REALLY wanted to promote NASCAR, he would have said "sorry, but our third most important race of the year is much more important than your most important race of the year. Sucks your race got delayed, but I have to be heading back now to the premier racing series in America - you all should tune in. I'll try this again next year!" That's how you promote NASCAR. What he did had the opposite effect.)

Last thought - Kyle has a responsibility to NASCAR. His sponsors, team, fans, the entire industry really. He makes millions of dollars and has made even more millions of dollars in the past, and this commitment is what is asked of him in return. I personally feel like he broke a lot of trust with a lot of people, and let a lot of people down with his decision. I was very close to Kurt when he did the double. We had many, many, many different scenarios and schedules based on just about every single situation you could think of under the sun. None of those situations had Kurt choosing to miss the 600. It would have taken a helicopter crash, plane crash, or Indy 500 injury for that to happen. Kurt knew where his bread was buttered...and more importantly, he chose to CARE about where his bread was buttered.

TL;DR: I'm personally glad Kyle stayed to race Indy. But he really shouldn't have and should probably have been punished.
 
The very idea of waivers is hilarious in comparing NASCAR to any other sports that have a playoff system. I've always felt that way but recognize no one cares.

If NASCAR wants to dissuade NASCAR talent from jumping into any other car, that's certainly a choice they can make and they can use all the stuff people have said here to do so. They wouldn't be the first sanctioning body to do this. However, this is a particularly interesting point in time to do so as they're negotiating revenue splits with teams (some of which have drivers with shares in the teams) and sponsor revenue has only become more difficult to get over time. Also Larson will clearly be dedicated to the series the rest of the year, and if he winds up being dominant and isn't crowned champion, that will only serve to delegitimize the Cup champ completely at the end of the year. That's something NASCAR has to some degree avoided to date, but becomes a real possibility at exactly the same time they are negotiating with RTA for having cars show up to Daytona at all in 2025.
 
Allenbaba said:
I don't think this discussion is "for nothing" at all. It's a discussion that many people have had, and are still having in the industry. And I would say that more people than not are annoyed that Kyle will get the waiver, and they are annoyed that he chose (that's the operative word here folks...he "CHOSE") to miss the 600. He put the Indy 500 first. That doesn't sit well with many.

Did him doing the double bring attention to NASCAR? Sure, I guess. But that's not why he did it. He did it because he wanted to. Period. That's the end of the list of reasons why it happened. Anything else is just a byproduct. And I am 100% cool with drivers doing things because they want to. It's their right. I would support any driver racing in different series. I 100% support Chase snowboarding. Who cares. But Kyle ran the Indy 500 because Kyle wanted to. That's the only thing that should be on trial in this thread.

How do I feel about it? It's pretty simple...and I think Andy touched on it several times in this thread...the waiver rule was put in place for this EXACT situation. If you're able to race in a NASCAR event, then you better show up (and make no mistake about it..Kyle was plenty able. He chose not to. That's where it differs from injuries and suspensions, etc). And as long as that rule is there, he should NOT be granted a waiver, he should have come back for the 600. Do I think that's fair? No, it's a stupid rule that's written pretty black and white in an otherwise grey world. Was I happy Kyle stayed for the 500 instead of the 600? Personally, absolutely. Made watching the 500 that much more fun for me. If I were a Kyle fan, would I have wanted him to stay? Personally, absolutely. I've seen Kyle win a zillion NASCAR events, would be super cool to watch him at Indy. But, he broke the rule for selfish reasons. It's really that simple.

(Plus...if Kyle REALLY wanted to promote NASCAR, he would have said "sorry, but our third most important race of the year is much more important than your most important race of the year. Sucks your race got delayed, but I have to be heading back now to the premier racing series in America - you all should tune in. I'll try this again next year!" That's how you promote NASCAR. What he did had the opposite effect.)

Last thought - Kyle has a responsibility to NASCAR. His sponsors, team, fans, the entire industry really. He makes millions of dollars and has made even more millions of dollars in the past, and this commitment is what is asked of him in return. I personally feel like he broke a lot of trust with a lot of people, and let a lot of people down with his decision. I was very close to Kurt when he did the double. We had many, many, many different scenarios and schedules based on just about every single situation you could think of under the sun. None of those situations had Kurt choosing to miss the 600. It would have taken a helicopter crash, plane crash, or Indy 500 injury for that to happen. Kurt knew where his bread was buttered...and more importantly, he chose to CARE about where his bread was buttered.

TL;DR: I'm personally glad Kyle stayed to race Indy. But he really shouldn't have and should probably have been punished.
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Eh, B.S. Nobody counted how many times Larson and Nascar was said in the same breath at Indy, but take my word for it many many many times. It might not have any merit for some who are in the sport, but for the rest all over the world they knew Nascar was at Indianapolis.
 
Spotter22 said:
2 pages of arguments all for nothing. Larson will get the waiver. It was done before the race ever started at Indy. Its NASCARs game and its silly to think they would or should leave the best driver in Cup out of the playoffs. But by all means continue. Everyone should thank KL for attempting this tremendous task. This isn't a movie,it was real people with real intentions to showcase our sport. I feel bad for the guy but I knew this was gonna happen.
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I agree and I don't that Larson and Hendrick would have proceded without be assurred of a waiver.
I think the context for the windbagging or this discussion is more about if he should have been given a waiver or not, with the understanding that it was always going to be approved.

BTW I think he deserves a waiver.
 
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