Silly Season 2020

2 Sweet said:
Kasey Kahne underperformed at Hendrick for six freakin' years before Rick finally fired him. But not only did he find him a ride with a Hendrick affiliate, he also paid him for another year. That being said, you can't expect something like that to be the norm.

Chevy couldn't keep Harv because SHR switched manufacturers. That's a bad example.
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Agreed. The Kahne/Hendrick thing is the kind of business model that sends owners home. That could not be expected from anybody really, and honestly, I think Coach and Toyota are smarter than that.

Chevy could have gotten him out of that deal. Money talks, and I bet there is a PSA that says so. Hell, if not Harvick what the hell was going on with Chevy lifer Smoke and said company?
 
Joker said:
Sadly Daniel doesn't have time on his side. These guys getting in now are in their early 20s and landing stud rides. I think he has the talent to become like Jamie Mac or Menard but no better than that.
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I agree.
 
Revman said:
Chevy could have gotten him out of that deal. Money talks, and I bet there is a PSA that says so. Hell, if not Harvick what the hell was going on with Chevy lifer Smoke and said company?
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Harvick would have been crazy to leave SHR. If Chevy really wanted to keep him, it wouldn't have mattered. If Penske changes manufacturers again, would you blame Ford if Kez and Logano stay at Penske? Of course not.
 
2 Sweet said:
Harvick would have been crazy to leave SHR. If Chevy really wanted to keep him, it wouldn't have mattered. If Penske changes manufacturers again, would you blame Ford if Kez and Logano stay at Penske? Of course not.
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Would Dale Jr. have ever been in anything other than a Chevy? Why?
 
Revman said:
Would Dale Jr. have ever been in anything other than a Chevy? Why?
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Nope. You could say the same for Gordon and JJ. If your point is that those guys are higher up the Chevrolet ladder than Tony or Harv ever were, then I think I understand what you're getting at. Toyota may like Suarez, but he's obviously no Busch or Truex. Priorities.
 
2 Sweet said:
Nope. You could say the same for Gordon and JJ. If your point is that those guys are higher up the Chevrolet ladder than Tony or Harv ever were, then I think I understand what you're getting at. Toyota may like Suarez, but he's obviously no Busch or Truex. Priorities.
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Ford wanted to keep Saurez, but outside of Roush, SHR, Penske (WBR) and Roush there are no other Ford Performance backed teams. The only option was GoFas and they wanted to keep Lajoie with the new addition of the SHR agreement.

I think going to a smaller team will help Daniel's staying power. He might be a late bloomer, you never know. Its insane how no one wanted him and he has money behind him, so I'm hoping this move works long-term for Daniel in some fashion.
 
Revman said:
Evidence of Toyota's love of Daniel is evidenced in his entry to the sport originally,
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Was that love of Suarez or of Arris' funding?

Just to be clear, I have no problem with the original decision to let him go. I just don't see having him sign with a third-tier team who happens to be running Toyotas as demonstrating the company's supposed 'love'. If you want to make a case Toyota loves Shrub, I'll agree completely. They've stuck with him through his various escapades. Their relationship with Suarez strikes me more as somewhere between "Well, we wanted to like him, and he was okay while we waited for someone else to get here", and "I'm sorry, Daniel who?"
 
Revman said:
Would Dale Jr. have ever been in anything other than a Chevy? Why?
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Jr. never drove for an owner who was interested in changing manufacturers. If he'd been in Harv's shoes at SHR, who here can guarantee what he would have put up with?

On the other hand, Jr. may have recognized he was a low-teens driver and that staying with Chevy was more profitable than switching to a potentially more demanding brand.

Either way, Suarez isn't Harvick or Jr. There's little basis for comparison. You've agreed he's a Newman- or McMurray-caliber driver. I recall they drove for at least two manufacturers each, with no evidence of 'love' in the relationships.
 
A similar thing with Stewart. Tony left Gibbs so he could stay with GM/Chevy. He had a lot of deals with them on the dirt side. Consequently when they went to Ford there were deals made to switch to Ford on the dirt side. It took long enough. The Ford sprint car motor didn't make it into service until this year and on top of that it wasn't until the season was half way finished.
 
StandOnIt said:
A similar thing with Stewart. Tony left Gibbs so he could stay with GM/Chevy. He had a lot of deals with them on the dirt side. Consequently when they went to Ford there were deals made to switch to Ford on the dirt side. It took long enough. The Ford sprint car motor didn't make it into service until this year and on top of that it wasn't until the season was half way finished.
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"Follow the money."
 
Didn't Gibbs only commit to helping the 96 after the whole Kligerman/Suarez thing?
 
2 Sweet said:
Nope. You could say the same for Gordon and JJ. If your point is that those guys are higher up the Chevrolet ladder than Tony or Harv ever were, then I think I understand what you're getting at. Toyota may like Suarez, but he's obviously no Busch or Truex. Priorities.
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Oh absolutely....but if Toyota can get Suarez back in a ride with next to no expectations, this isn't a bad thing. Daniel's Amigos! All upside.

You don't think Tony was up the Chevy ladder? I sure do. When JGR went to Toyota, JD went to Tony's home to break the news because they knew it wouldn't be pretty. Sure that could have been out of a hatred for Toyota, but I think it was more about his allegiance to Chevy.
 
I think Tony making the jump from Chevy to Ford had more to do with it allowed SHR to become an independent organization. If they stayed with Chevy they would always play second fiddle and have to get chassis from HMS

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wi_racefan said:
I think Tony making the jump from Chevy to Ford had more to do with it allowed SHR to become an independent organization. If they stayed with Chevy they would always play second fiddle and have to get chassis from HMS

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You are correct, but that move still shocks me--on both sides.
 
Joker said:
Didn't Gibbs only commit to helping the 96 after the whole Kligerman/Suarez thing?
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I don't think JGR has committed to anything with the 96 unless I have missed something.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Was that love of Suarez or of Arris' funding?

Just to be clear, I have no problem with the original decision to let him go. I just don't see having him sign with a third-tier team who happens to be running Toyotas as demonstrating the company's supposed 'love'. If you want to make a case Toyota loves Shrub, I'll agree completely. They've stuck with him through his various escapades. Their relationship with Suarez strikes me more as somewhere between "Well, we wanted to like him, and he was okay while we waited for someone else to get here", and "I'm sorry, Daniel who?"
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JGR liked the funding, Toyota likes Daniel. Toyota likes drivers beyond the wins--with the exception of our Champion. It's pretty public now that KB has been hard on TRD, but he is the winningest Toyota driver ever. Period. Truth be told....MTJ winning the title was much easier for Toyota to celebrate IMO. In David Wilson's own words....MTJ's character is congruent to TRD's. With Daniel, you don't have the on track success, but the dude is great with fans and the media. Let's not overlook the cultural aspect as well. To say that Toyota wants him back in the family would be an understatement. To your point, with Daniel in the 96, they don't need to wait for someone better because the expectations for the 96 are nothing. You get all of the off track Daniel goodness without any of the on track expectations. Perfect, honestly. Maybe think Danica here.....

Regarding the original decision to let him go......You had a Champion in MTJ or Daniel....the choice was obvious even though there was at least one poster who ran his mouth about the injustice of it all, and now turns around and says he has lost faith in Daniel without a tip of the cap to JGR for a decision with an eye on the future.
 
wi_racefan said:
I think Tony making the jump from Chevy to Ford had more to do with it allowed SHR to become an independent organization. If they stayed with Chevy they would always play second fiddle and have to get chassis from HMS

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That's a big part of it, but like Charlie said, that is where money comes in also. Just how bad did Ford want and need a really good proven 4 car team. Roush sure wasn't cutting it.
 
Couple of points to be made. Daniel had something Nascar wanted and so did Toyota and that was his popularity in his own country and the exposure Nascar got from it. Two things happened. Carl quite and Joe made a mistake in bringing Daniel to cup. The very same mistake he made with Joey. The other point is that Daniels sponsor money wasn't that huge and according to SHR they were difficult to get them to pay funding in advance.
 
Revman said:
Would Dale Jr. have ever been in anything other than a Chevy? Why?
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Lest you forget, Jr. ALMOST signed with JGR. It was down to HMS and JGR, and BOTH offered gobs of money. Jr. REALLY likes preacher Joe, but I think the personal connection he had with Rick going back several years and how Rick took car of his grandfather swayed him to HMS. As far as SHR, from what I know of it, that was all a Gene Haas deal. I was told that Tony would not have done that if it was his decision alone to make. As far as Harvick, first off he was under contract, and was coming off a recent championship with the team and had the crew chief he wanted. That all would of made it pretty hard for him to leave even if he wanted to.
 
Formerjackman said:
Lest you forget, Jr. ALMOST signed with JGR. It was down to HMS and JGR, and BOTH offered gobs of money. Jr. REALLY likes preacher Joe, but I think the personal connection he had with Rick going back several years and how Rick took car of his grandfather swayed him to HMS. As far as SHR, from what I know of it, that was all a Gene Haas deal. I was told that Tony would not have done that if it was his decision alone to make. As far as Harvick, first off he was under contract, and was coming off a recent championship with the team and had the crew chief he wanted. That all would of made it pretty hard for him to leave even if he wanted to.
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Junior signed in June, JGR went Toyota in September. Either he had no idea what was evolving, or it played into his decisions. I doubt Junior knew what was brewing with JGR. That was all done very quietly. Coach did not want his leftover position (for whatever it was worth) compromised if everything fell through with Toyota.

Makes sense on Tony. Still surprised on Harvick.
 
It will be interesting to see how this works out. I think Suarez has more talent than most of the guys that wind up in backmarker part-time cars. We'll see how much he can get from the hardware / how much the car holds him back. Just making the field for each attempted race would be a good start.
 
Isn't that why he lost his ride at SHR. The sponsor is real slow putting up the money.???
 
Kiante said:
The money was there, but Custer performed so well. How can you not promote him after the season he just had?

Custer is like playing with house money.
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I thought Tony said they didn't pony up the "Up front" money so they changed drivers. Was that just an excuse or a lie???
 
This is the part about Suarez I don't agree with. He got a hell of an opportunity when Carl bailed with JGR, same when he was booted by JGR to race with Stewart Haas, another hell of an opportunity.

 
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