Silly Season 2023

Jorge De Guzman said:
I always thought RC had a problem with the way the 23XI signing was handled. Not with a lack of resources. And if it is indeed Kyle being signed to RCR, “the lack of resources” argument dies Tuesday morning.
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Well, nobody ever accused anyone in the NASCAR world (or the sports in general) with making consistent arguments.
 
Conover said:
And where is the press, and the motor sports inner community, on the actions taken by Denny Hambone with respect to this signing? Where is the condemnation for the manner their signing was conducted, the announcement process, etc? Was Hambone’s “slip it in” introduction of his new driver during a video web stream just as bad as Reddick’s one hour notice to RC? Seems to me very unprofessional as well.

Nevertheless, the next phase is coming. We’ll see what that means for all parties.
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Well, Denny explained all of this, whether you agree or disagree with his point of view is up to you. THEY wanted to be the ones to make the announcement of hiring Tyler, and they KNEW that about five minutes after Tyler told Richard, the WHOLE WORLD would know what's up and spoil the announcement, pretty much the same thing that is happening with Kyle. By the time they make the official announcement, it will be old news. I can kind of see both sides of it. I could be totally wrong, but I still get the impression that Richard didn't even know Tyler was talking to somebody else.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
If it is 3 Cup cars next year RCR is running with Dillon, Reddick and Busch, I have to say that’s a pretty stellar team for 2023.
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Well, two out of three, but we're still left wondering where sponsors and third charter are coming from. Hopefully we'll learn tomorrow. Otherwise, Tyler may be qualifying on speed every week and hoping it doesn't rain.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Well, two out of three, but we're still left wondering where sponsors and third charter are coming from. Hopefully we'll learn tomorrow. Otherwise, Tyler may be qualifying on speed every week and hoping it doesn't rain.
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its a HUGE If. I think I used all the speculation I can at this point. I am eager to find out sponsors, number of cars RCR is going to have next year, Busch's car # and whatever else we have been speculating on since this news broke.
 
aunty dive said:
Isn’t Kurt Busch the lynch-pin in all of this?
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I don't think so only because RC is apparently keen on getting Reddick out at the end of this season regardless. That was said by Stern or one of the other journalists a couple weeks ago, I forget which one. Either way you're going to have Kyle Busch in the 8 and Ty Gibbs in the 18. Really Kyle Busch and the pin, because if he stayed in the 18 then Ty would stay put in Xfinity and Tyler would have probably still driven the 8 next year without a better or comparably talented driver available to replace him at Childress.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Played in what ways? Kyle is going to RCR, Reddick is getting pushed out early. Ty to the 18
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Humor me.I haven't been following this very closely partly because nothing I have read from reptable people involved have said anything substantial about who is going where. So please post some articles I can read that can belay the confusion ok? Thanks in advance.
 
StandOnIt said:
Could be. There are a whole bunch of unsubstantiated rumors. I tend to think we are being and have been played pretty good so far.
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What do you mean by that? Granted I don't know everything, but I do know more than the layman, and from what I do know, there aren't really games being played. Kyle & TRD were never really going to work out after MARS. So Kyle needed a new ride. Then Kurt got hurt, and is a bit up in the air for next season (though his goal is to be back, as is 23XI's goal). All the while, for some reason, 23XI announced the Tyler deal immediately (not Tyler's choice) so that started all kinds of speculation. RC was rightfully pissed, and I believe (most believe) fully happy to let Tyler sit out next season. He still might, but who knows, time tends to do things to anger, as does helping a teammate get into the playoffs. What he's asking of 23XI for a buyout is lololololololol (granted, MJ could probably find the money in his couch).

Kyle reached out to just about every team in the garage. At one point, he was even resigned to just running trucks full season. Kaulig had a little traction, as did 23XI (contingent on Kurt's not returning, which they won't know for a while, and it would be only a one-year deal keeping the seat warm for Tyler). So RCR was Kyle's best landing space (and I'd be willing to bet he'll be cheaper than Tyler as it relates to salary. It was not a Kyle Busch market out there).

As for Tyler, there are three scenarios: he sits out, he drives a third RCR car, or he waits on Kurt's status, and if he retires, 23XI pays a ton for his services for one extra season. Or I guess a longshot 4th, Kurt comes back, and 23XI pays both buyout and 3rd charter.

As for charter purchases - don't think of them as an "oh great, now we have to pay all this money to run another guy" fee. It's something completely different than "resources." Think of it as an asset. A business investment. One that will hopefully appreciate, or generate revenue. No team is going to buy a charter if it doesn't make financial sense in the long run, and is part of well thought out and calculated growth strategy (or there's another grandson out there). They're certainly not going to buy one just so Tyler can be comfortable for a single season.
 
Allenbaba said:
What do you mean by that? Granted I don't know everything, but I do know more than the layman, and from what I do know, there aren't really games being played. Kyle & TRD were never really going to work out after MARS. So Kyle needed a new ride. Then Kurt got hurt, and is a bit up in the air for next season (though his goal is to be back, as is 23XI's goal). All the while, for some reason, 23XI announced the Tyler deal immediately (not Tyler's choice) so that started all kinds of speculation. RC was rightfully pissed, and I believe (most believe) fully happy to let Tyler sit out next season. He still might, but who knows, time tends to do things to anger, as does helping a teammate get into the playoffs. What he's asking of 23XI for a buyout is lololololololol (granted, MJ could probably find the money in his couch).

Kyle reached out to just about every team in the garage. At one point, he was even resigned to just running trucks full season. Kaulig had a little traction, as did 23XI (contingent on Kurt's not returning, which they won't know for a while, and it would be only a one-year deal keeping the seat warm for Tyler). So RCR was Kyle's best landing space (and I'd be willing to bet he'll be cheaper than Tyler as it relates to salary. It was not a Kyle Busch market out there).

As for Tyler, there are three scenarios: he sits out, he drives a third RCR car, or he waits on Kurt's status, and if he retires, 23XI pays a ton for his services for one extra season. Or I guess a longshot 4th, Kurt comes back, and 23XI pays both buyout and 3rd charter.

As for charter purchases - don't think of them as an "oh great, now we have to pay all this money to run another guy" fee. It's something completely different than "resources." Think of it as an asset. A business investment. One that will hopefully appreciate, or generate revenue. No team is going to buy a charter if it doesn't make financial sense in the long run, and is part of well thought out and calculated growth strategy (or there's another grandson out there). They're certainly not going to buy one just so Tyler can be comfortable for a single season.
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So RCR was Kyle's best landing space (and I'd be willing to bet he'll be cheaper than Tyler as it relates to salary. It was not a Kyle Busch market out there).



You think Kyle is gonna leave Gibbs for RCR and take less money then Reddick makes? You think Gibbs, Toyota couldnt come up with more than what RCR pays Reddick? Zero sense unless you know Chevrolet is coming up with some cash that includes his Truck operation. He can convert his chassis pretty easy and ECR can build his engines but it still is gonna need funding. Bottom line he isnt going to RCR for less money
 
Spotter22 said:
So RCR was Kyle's best landing space (and I'd be willing to bet he'll be cheaper than Tyler as it relates to salary. It was not a Kyle Busch market out there).



You think Kyle is gonna leave Gibbs for RCR and take less money then Reddick makes? You think Gibbs, Toyota couldnt come up with more than what RCR pays Reddick? Zero sense unless you know Chevrolet is coming up with some cash that includes his Truck operation. He can convert his chassis pretty easy and ECR can build his engines but it still is gonna need funding. Bottom line he isnt going to RCR for less money
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This entire statement assumes that leaving Gibbs was Kyle's choice. So it's safe to say we see things differently on that one.
 
Allenbaba said:
What do you mean by that? Granted I don't know everything, but I do know more than the layman, and from what I do know, there aren't really games being played. Kyle & TRD were never really going to work out after MARS. So Kyle needed a new ride. Then Kurt got hurt, and is a bit up in the air for next season (though his goal is to be back, as is 23XI's goal). All the while, for some reason, 23XI announced the Tyler deal immediately (not Tyler's choice) so that started all kinds of speculation. RC was rightfully pissed, and I believe (most believe) fully happy to let Tyler sit out next season. He still might, but who knows, time tends to do things to anger, as does helping a teammate get into the playoffs. What he's asking of 23XI for a buyout is lololololololol (granted, MJ could probably find the money in his couch).

Kyle reached out to just about every team in the garage. At one point, he was even resigned to just running trucks full season. Kaulig had a little traction, as did 23XI (contingent on Kurt's not returning, which they won't know for a while, and it would be only a one-year deal keeping the seat warm for Tyler). So RCR was Kyle's best landing space (and I'd be willing to bet he'll be cheaper than Tyler as it relates to salary. It was not a Kyle Busch market out there).

As for Tyler, there are three scenarios: he sits out, he drives a third RCR car, or he waits on Kurt's status, and if he retires, 23XI pays a ton for his services for one extra season. Or I guess a longshot 4th, Kurt comes back, and 23XI pays both buyout and 3rd charter.

As for charter purchases - don't think of them as an "oh great, now we have to pay all this money to run another guy" fee. It's something completely different than "resources." Think of it as an asset. A business investment. One that will hopefully appreciate, or generate revenue. No team is going to buy a charter if it doesn't make financial sense in the long run, and is part of well thought out and calculated growth strategy (or there's another grandson out there). They're certainly not going to buy one just so Tyler can be comfortable for a single season.
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I read somewhere, for the life of me I cannot remember where, some pure speculation that Tyler's contract salary is mostly based on a percentage of winnings. Thus, RC's revenge will be to make him run a third, unchartered car for RCR. Being unchartered, the winnings will be much lower thus greatly slashing Tyler's salary. Is this even a possibility?
 
Allenbaba said:
This entire statement assumes that leaving Gibbs was Kyle's choice. So it's safe to say we see things differently on that one.
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Kyle was waiting on Gibbs to meet his number or at least come close, so You're right it would have to be a force out because I know Gibbs and Toyota could come up with more money than RCR and I'm sure Kyle doest want to change his whole truck operation
 
Allenbaba said:
This entire statement assumes that leaving Gibbs was Kyle's choice. So it's safe to say we see things differently on that one.
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The whole sponsorship thing has been what TRD hid behind to jettison Kyle for good? Wow. Not shocking, especially with the next annointed one already in house over at JGR.
 
Spotter22 said:
Kyle was waiting on Gibbs to meet his number or at least come close, so You're right it would have to be a force out because I know Gibbs and Toyota could come up with more money than RCR and I'm sure Kyle doest want to change his whole truck operation
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So who will become the new de facto Toyota Works team? ThorSport? So many dominos to fall...
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
The whole sponsorship thing has been what TRD hid behind to jettison Kyle for good? Wow. Not shocking, especially with the next annointed one already in house over at JGR.
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Pretty sure Dave Wilson was very genuine in his statements. He would have liked Kyle and JGR to fiigure something out. This was not a TRD play. I've said it before, they do not control what JGR does, especially as it relates to drivers. I think the Kyle/JGR relationship simply ran its course, and for many reasons.
 
Revman said:
I agree....and ridiculous how Poop Poop has played the media. Poor Richard after the big bad Reddick took the money which Richard said he didn't have, and ran. Now, he somehow can pay Kyle?n
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Richard Roush.

As far as Im concerned. Both owners have kissed goodbye to championship caliber talent like it's their job these last 20 years.

And it's totally deserved.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
So maybe all the "JGR can't afford Kyle's price" talk was just that: talk. Lack of sponsorship was the convenient cover story. It's sounding now like they weren't meeting Kyle's asking now matter if it were $10M or $10. Kinda bummed we don't get a statement from JGR calling him "family."
 
jaqua19 said:
Richard Roush.

As far as Im concerned. Both owners have kissed goodbye to championship caliber talent like it's their job these last 20 years.

And it's totally deserved.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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Reminds me of the old saying: It doesn't matter how beautiful he/she is. Somewhere, there's someone who's sick of their s**t.
 
Allenbaba said:
Pretty sure Dave Wilson was very genuine in his statements. He would have liked Kyle and JGR to fiigure something out. This was not a TRD play. I've said it before, they do not control what JGR does, especially as it relates to drivers. I think the Kyle/JGR relationship simply ran its course, and for many reasons.
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You can say it until you are blue in the face...Ask Wilson next time you see him who is "we" will ya. Anybody besides a yota fan that reads just a few lines of this interview below and isn't confused as to who is what hasn't been paying attention.

Here is one sample of just who is building the damn car JGR or "We" or TRD ??
Wilson: “Absolutely. The level of effort that we’re putting into keeping him in the fold is truly remarkable. We want him to stay. We know he can get it done. I feel terrible because we haven’t given him the tools in many cases and haven’t let him exploit the handful of times he’s had a really good car.

nascar.nbcsports.com

Head of Toyota NASCAR program addresses challenging year with Next Gen, driver futures

Toyota Racing Development president David Wilson on the 2022 NASCAR season, including the new Next Gen and the futures of Kyle Busch and Martin Truex Jr.
nascar.nbcsports.com nascar.nbcsports.com
 
Allenbaba said:
All the while, for some reason, 23XI announced the Tyler deal immediately (not Tyler's choice) so that started all kinds of speculation. RC was rightfully pissed, and I believe (most believe) fully happy to let Tyler sit out next season. He still might, but who knows, time tends to do things to anger, as does helping a teammate get into the playoffs. What he's asking of 23XI for a buyout is lololololololol (granted, MJ could probably find the money in his couch).

As for Tyler, there are three scenarios: he sits out, he drives a third RCR car, or he waits on Kurt's status, and if he retires, 23XI pays a ton for his services for one extra season. Or I guess a longshot 4th, Kurt comes back, and 23XI pays both buyout and 3rd charter.
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I'll take this as confirmation that I was right and RCR is on the hook for Tyler's 2023 contract option unless somebody CHOOSES to BUY RCR out of it.
 
Allenbaba said:
As for charter purchases - don't think of them as an "oh great, now we have to pay all this money to run another guy" fee. It's something completely different than "resources." Think of it as an asset. A business investment. One that will hopefully appreciate, or generate revenue. No team is going to buy a charter if it doesn't make financial sense in the long run, and is part of well thought out and calculated growth strategy (or there's another grandson out there). They're certainly not going to buy one just so Tyler can be comfortable for a single season.
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I understand that a charter is an investment, but you have to be able, or at least willing to spend the money to make the investment. Is RCR in a position where they want to drop that much money into a charter right now, especially when you seemingly don't have a driver or a sponsor for 2024? Buying a couple bars of gold would be a good investment for me, but I can't quite swing the going price.
 
StandOnIt said:
You can say it until you are blue in the face...Ask Wilson next time you see him who is "we" will ya. Anybody besides a yota fan that reads just a few lines of this interview below and isn't confused as to who is what hasn't been paying attention.

Here is one sample of just who is building the damn car JGR or "We" or TRD ??
Wilson: “Absolutely. The level of effort that we’re putting into keeping him in the fold is truly remarkable. We want him to stay. We know he can get it done. I feel terrible because we haven’t given him the tools in many cases and haven’t let him exploit the handful of times he’s had a really good car.

nascar.nbcsports.com

Head of Toyota NASCAR program addresses challenging year with Next Gen, driver futures

Toyota Racing Development president David Wilson on the 2022 NASCAR season, including the new Next Gen and the futures of Kyle Busch and Martin Truex Jr.
nascar.nbcsports.com nascar.nbcsports.com
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This is a perfect example of why I rarely post anymore. I mean, if you're going to post quotes from what people say to the media, there's really no way I can counter it, or expand on it, or give any context to it, etc, without posting what I know, which almost exclusively comes off the record. And for what? To prove I know things here? I don't care about that.

And I'm not even just referring to this particular quote, but all things in general (FTR Dave Wilson really did want Kyle to stay. They have forged a very close relationship). People are extremely calculated when they talk to the media (well, the smart ones at least). There is always a bigger picture at play. So in that sense, I would just tell you to continue believing whatever it is you want to believe. There's really no harm in that. It's the desired outcome.
 
Formerjackman said:
I understand that a charter is an investment, but you have to be able, or at least willing to spend the money to make the investment. Is RCR in a position where they want to drop that much money into a charter right now, especially when you seemingly don't have a driver or a sponsor for 2024? Buying a couple bars of gold would be a good investment for me, but I can't quite swing the going price.
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That is one of the many reasons I think we are being played. Who has a charter floating around and needs a Kyle Busch. It isn't Childress unless somebody hits the road. What in the hell makes sense to pay money for a driver and then hand cuff him and the team with out of the box money cause no charter. A whole lot of groundwork should have been laid before all of this and not a peep from a whole industry of blabbermouths.
 
StandOnIt said:
That is one of the many reasons I think we are being played. Who has a charter floating around and needs a Kyle Busch. It isn't Childress unless somebody hits the road. What in the hell makes sense to pay money for a driver and then hand cuff him and the team with out of the box money cause no charter. A whole lot of groundwork should have been laid before all of this and not a peep from a whole industry of blabbermouths.
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Well, let us in on what you think the plan is. I've been saying all along that on the surface this didn't make make a lot of sense, so either there are a LOT of cards we haven't been shown yet, or this was just two desperate guys combining forces and praying it all works out somehow. My guess is that it will be a little bit of both. I will also say that for all the people that thought Kyle's antics were so cute and fun, well, here is the downside to that. You can get away with antagonizing NASCAR or other drivers or crews or maybe half the fanbase, but when owners and sponsors finally get sick of you, you find yourself painted into a corner. If David Wilson couldn't save the Kyle Busch-JGR marriage, things must have really hit rock bottom.
 
Allenbaba said:
This is a perfect example of why I rarely post anymore. I mean, if you're going to post quotes from what people say to the media, there's really no way I can counter it, or expand on it, or give any context to it, etc, without posting what I know, which almost exclusively comes off the record. And for what? To prove I know things here? I don't care about that.

And I'm not even just referring to this particular quote, but all things in general (FTR Dave Wilson really did want Kyle to stay. They have forged a very close relationship). People are extremely calculated when they talk to the media (well, the smart ones at least). There is always a bigger picture at play. So in that sense, I would just tell you to continue believing whatever it is you want to believe. There's really no harm in that. It's the desired outcome.
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I would encourage you to stick around and post what you can. You certainly can be a voice of reason in many of these topics when things get sideways around here. I for one, ALWAYS appreciate your input, even if it's just speculation.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, let us in on what you think the plan is. I've been saying all along that on the surface this didn't make make a lot of sense, so either there are a LOT of cards we haven't been shown yet, or this was just two desperate guys combining forces and praying it all works out somehow. My guess is that it will be a little bit of both. I will also say that for all the people that thought Kyle's antics were so cute and fun, well, here is the downside to that. You can get away with antagonizing NASCAR or other drivers or crews or maybe half the fanbase, but when owners and sponsors finally get sick of you, you find yourself painted into a corner. If David Wilson couldn't save the Kyle Busch-JGR marriage, things must have really hit rock bottom.
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I'm not an I told ya so, but it was a short ride out the door when the dominating winning seasons stopped happening. Other teams have taken it in stride, but like has been said, going around waving a red flag in front of a herd of bulls is only going to work for so long after the wins stop happening. But here's to all of the alibi inventors, story tellers, and B.S. artists who right now are putting as much distance as their little legs will carry them. :cheers:
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm not an I told ya so, but it was a short ride out the door when the dominating winning seasons stopped happening. Other teams have taken it in stride, but like has been said, going around waving a red flag in front of a herd of bulls is only going to work for so long after the wins stop happening. But here's to all of the alibi inventors, story tellers, and B.S. artists who right now are putting as much distance as their little legs will carry them. :cheers:
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Kyle is relatively young but has a ton of mileage in the sport. I could see him turning it around & becoming the dominant force he used to be, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the other way around. RCR is a step down from JGR without a doubt.
 
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