Silly Season 2024

AlTerego said:
The narrative that Kyle has failed because he sold his truck team for 25 million is ridiculous. Can you imagine hating someone you don’t know so much that you criticize them when they make a windfall? I don’t get it.
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He loved Kyle until about 10 months ago. I can’t quite remember what changed ;)
 
RayinTX said:
Because he's a Toyota clown boy, not a fan of the sport or a driver.
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I have no issue with Rev being the ultimate Toyota fan boy, I guess SOMEBODY has to take that job, it's the absolute tunnel vision he brings with it that annoys me. There are good people and good teams doing good things outside of the brand that I support. Take RFK. Ford and Jack Roush have been my "sworn enemy" since before Jack got into NASCAR, but I respect the hell out of what Brad is doing over there. I despise Denny, but respect what 23XI is building. I dislike KB, but he's one of the most talented guys to ever strap into a stock car. I refuse to let fandom drown out honesty and objectivity.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'll hand it to Justin that guy is showing the old guard how to run a team.

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As devils advocate, some of the old guard are doing just fine with sponsors (HMS) . RFK with Brad at the helm, are doing some great things too with bringing in new partners
 
Racing ain't cheap. Kyle's going to be spending millions on top of millions on top of millions on Brexton. I'm sure he's gotten a small taste of what it'll cost running Bandoleros. Legend Cars aren't supposed to be expensive but they can get really expensive. There are people who race Legends with Late Model budgets. And the way Late Model Stock and Super Late Model racing is going, it'll probably cost well over a quarter-million per year to run Late Models by the time Brexton is there. If not a half-million.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
As devils advocate, some of the old guard are doing just fine with sponsors (HMS) . RFK with Brad at the helm, are doing some great things too with bringing in new partners
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Hendrick's the best in the business in every aspect, this being one of those aspects. Doesn't help having the most popular driver and the two overall best drivers under his umbrella.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Hendrick's the best in the business in every aspect, this being one of those aspects. Doesn't help having the most popular driver and the two overall best drivers under his umbrella.
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In fairness, one of those “overall best drivers” has difficult getting sponsorship because he said a racial slur while playing a video game. Hendrick is skilled at convincing fans that that isn’t the case though.
 
Has anyone heard any update on NASCAR"s short track package? I know they did some testing in Richmond after the Richmond race. Ever since then, they haven't said anything, or at least I haven't see anything from them on the short track package.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Has anyone heard any update on NASCAR"s short track package? I know they did some testing in Richmond after the Richmond race. Ever since then, they haven't said anything, or at least I haven't see anything from them on the short track package.
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Did you miss Bristol or something?
 
SpeedPagan said:
Has anyone heard any update on NASCAR"s short track package? I know they did some testing in Richmond after the Richmond race. Ever since then, they haven't said anything, or at least I haven't see anything from them on the short track package.
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The test at Richmond didnt seem very promising.

https://racer.com/2023/07/31/more-to-work-on-after-nascars-latest-short-track-package-test/

“I couldn’t tell much of a difference from my car yesterday to today,” Stewart-Haas Racing’s Ryan Preece said. “(It was) not what we were all hoping for. Didn’t really feel much of a difference.”

“It was hard to tell (the difference),” Byron said. “We were all sliding around a lot; I felt pretty loose. I was loose the whole day. I felt like initially, when we put the aero changes on, it had some similar grip to what we had yesterday and then as we got closer to noon and the track started to heat up, less grip than yesterday, similar lap time, and then in traffic, everyone was really loose.

“I don’t know. We’ll have to see. Hopefully, get some other ideas for tomorrow. … I didn’t think it was much different.”
 
SpeedPagan said:
I was moving, so yea. 😆 Did they try out the new package at Bristol?
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Bristol (and Dover) still run the intermediate package. The short track/road course package has all the wet weather stuff included and they don’t run in the wet at those two.

Haven’t seen anything regarding the package since the Richmond test. I think it was back to the drawing board.
 
I Hate to break it to ya but this car is never going to race like the old cars did no matter what they do to them. One unreasonably cold day/night at Martinsville and the sky has been falling every since. Hope for a hot sunny day at Martinsville and Goodyear brings a crappy tire that falls off like crazy.
 
IMHO, I agree with Dale Jr. when he said the tires are the problem. They don't fall off as much as the old tires. I think NASCAR is going to have to do something with the tires to get the kind of racing people want to see on a short track.
 
SpeedPagan said:
IMHO, I agree with Dale Jr. when he said the tires are the problem. They don't fall off as much as the old tires. I think NASCAR is going to have to do something with the tires to get the kind of racing people want to see on a short track.
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Unfortunately, I don't think Goodyear is capable of doing that with the lower profile tire. They don't know how, at least not yet. That's the biggest problem IMO. Gotta bring a rock hard compound to prevent their tires from failing
 
2 Sweet said:
Unfortunately, I don't think Goodyear is capable of doing that with the lower profile tire. They don't know how, at least not yet. That's the biggest problem IMO. Gotta bring a rock hard compound to prevent their tires from failing
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Are you thinking softer tread compounds generate too much heat causing tire failure at the shoulder joint?
 
aunty dive said:
Are you thinking softer tread compounds generate too much heat causing tire failure at the shoulder joint?
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I have no idea, but it's as good a guess as any. Just playing armchair crew chief. The people designing these tires are way smarter than I'll ever be, but whatever the reason, the NextGen tires just don't perform like the older 15" wheels with the taller sidewall that they ran for decades.
 
2 Sweet said:
Add horsepower
Bring a softer tire
Mess around with the gear ratios

Problem solved.
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That won't fix the "problem". They aren't driving easily damaged cars anymore and despite the drivers trying to run clean they touch, cut tires and spin out and wreck. Then they have numerous cautions that lead to more of the same rinse and repeat. It really takes a hard lick for that to happen with these new cars. IRS and wider tires adds to the control factor so they drive the track with even less contact than before. They shift now out of the hole which reduces incidental contact even more. Brakes are way better, hardly any fade so they don't run into the back of each other as much either.
 
StandOnIt said:
That won't fix the "problem". They aren't driving easily damaged cars anymore and despite the drivers trying to run clean they touch, cut tires and spin out and wreck. Then they have numerous cautions that lead to more of the same rinse and repeat. It really takes a hard lick for that to happen with these new cars. IRS and wider tires adds to the control factor so they drive the track with even less contact than before. They shift now out of the hole which reduces incidental contact even more. Brakes are way better, hardly any fade so they don't run into the back of each other as much either.
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I think it's a start. Look at how the Xfinity cars raced at Bristol compared to Cup. Night and day.

Play around with the gearing to help take care of the shifting problem. Adding a little more power and bringing a softer tire will do nothing but help too IMO
 
2 Sweet said:
I have no idea, but it's as good a guess as any. Just playing armchair crew chief. The people designing these tires are way smarter than I'll ever be, but whatever the reason, the NextGen tires just don't perform like the older 15" wheels with the taller sidewall that they ran for decades.
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I don’t know either.

The 15” tires were often affectionately referred to as basketballs. Tires function as springs and have a spring rate which is measured and printed on the tire “stickers”. The rate of each tire is part of a formula that includes the rates of the tire, the corresponding coil spring and 1 end of the anti-roll bar to establish the wheel rate for that corner of the car. Wheel rate, not coil spring rate, is the number used by team engineers to establish race-starting setup and to make changes during the course of the weekend and the race itself. All worked out in simulation before the cars go into the haulers. The new tires are much stiffer (higher spring rate) than the basketballs because the sidewalls are so short. So stiff that they can’t physically install inner liners.

Softer tire tread compounds and the degradation that comes with them are in use all over the world in race series that run similar sidewall heights as those presently used in NASCAR Nextgen Cup racing. I can’t think of a physical reason preventing the production and use of softer tires for certain venues, particularly the shorter, lower-speed tracks.

Maybe it’s the 500 HP mindset … or fear of teams running through a 40 tire allotment (at $500 per) halfway through a race.
 
2 Sweet said:
I think it's a start. Look at how the Xfinity cars raced at Bristol compared to Cup. Night and day.

Play around with the gearing to help take care of the shifting problem. Adding a little more power and bringing a softer tire will do nothing but help too IMO
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I think a person would have to look at the talent level difference also. Jr who hasn't raced in years dominated in Xfinity at Bristol. Good luck finding a ratio where a 5 speed couldn't shift.
 
I don't think it's the shifting itself that's a "problem"....but I think adjusting the shift points may help NASCAR attain their desired outcome during testing. Shorter/taller gearing, depending on the track. We have different HP packages for different tracks, different aero packages, different tires, etc. So what about the gearing?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Racing ain't cheap. Kyle's going to be spending millions on top of millions on top of millions on Brexton. I'm sure he's gotten a small taste of what it'll cost running Bandoleros. Legend Cars aren't supposed to be expensive but they can get really expensive. There are people who race Legends with Late Model budgets. And the way Late Model Stock and Super Late Model racing is going, it'll probably cost well over a quarter-million per year to run Late Models by the time Brexton is there. If not a half-million.
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Are we talking Late Model Stock at the local track, the CARS Touring series or both?

The Nature Boy said:
In fairness, one of those “overall best drivers” has difficult getting sponsorship because he said a racial slur while playing a video game. Hendrick is skilled at convincing fans that that isn’t the case though.
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The fact that he won 10 races and a championship in the first year as a Hendrick driver helped.
 
SpeedPagan said:
The fact that he won 10 races and a championship in the first year as a Hendrick driver helped.
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Kyle is a damn good driver and he pretty much hit it out of the park immediately. Get rid of the racial slur incident and I'd be willing to bet that Hendrick Cars is a secondary sponsor at best because that kind of talent normally attracts dollars.

Is Rick seeing a return on his self-sponsorship? Likely so, but he could get that same return while still putting some partners on the car to offset his out of pocket costs.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Kyle is a damn good driver and he pretty much hit it out of the park immediately. Get rid of the racial slur incident and I'd be willing to bet that Hendrick Cars is a secondary sponsor at best because that kind of talent normally attracts dollars.

Is Rick seeing a return on his self-sponsorship? Likely so, but he could get that same return while still putting some partners on the car to offset his out of pocket costs.
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From what I've heard (and this is complete hearsay) is that Rick Hendrick has been getting sponsorship offers for Kyle Larson and the #5 team, but Hendrick Cars either convince Rick to keep them as the primary sponsor or more likely, they offer Rick more money to keep their spot on the car.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Kyle is a damn good driver and he pretty much hit it out of the park immediately. Get rid of the racial slur incident and I'd be willing to bet that Hendrick Cars is a secondary sponsor at best because that kind of talent normally attracts dollars.

Is Rick seeing a return on his self-sponsorship? Likely so, but he could get that same return while still putting some partners on the car to offset his out of pocket costs.
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Yep, he hendickcars was booming when the relationship started off. They continue to do it across the board and in different series, so it's working.
 
SpeedPagan said:
From what I've heard (and this is complete hearsay) is that Rick Hendrick has been getting sponsorship offers for Kyle Larson and the #5 team, but Hendrick Cars either convince Rick to keep them as the primary sponsor or more likely, they offer Rick more money to keep their spot on the car.
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Hendrick has a vested interest in making Larson look desirable. If you admit that you can't find a sponsor then you lose your leverage. Like I said on this before, the guy has employed Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt Jr, Mark Martin, Kasey Kahne, and other drivers who would have made a far better face for Hendrick Cars and he still opted to get actual sponsors for those guys. It's smart for Rick to make it look like Kyle is in demand, but I think fans need to always be skeptical of PR spin.

Hendrick is a very smart guy, he knows he has to make Kyle look desirable so he can maximize his income.
 
Kiante said:
Yep, he hendickcars was booming when the relationship started off. They continue to do it across the board and in different series, so it's working.
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I think Hendrick would like to keep his logo on the car, just to continue the association with Larson. He's getting a return on investment, but I do think he wouldn't mind having some partners to off-set the cost. Maybe you'd get something like the #41 had with Kurt Busch where Haas Automation and Monster Energy were featured on the car.
 
Why does Hendrickcars.com sponsor Larson’s cars (other than significant reductions in income taxes payable?)

“ The more we followed the data, the easier the decision became. We are seeing clear results.”

“Five of HendrickCars.com’s six highest-traffic days of the year have been attributed to its sponsorship of the No. 5 team, including four Cup Series race days when Larson led the most laps or won. In February, the reveal of the HendrickCars.com paint scheme drove the site’s highest one-day visitor count in more than 12 months. Since then, it has seen significant increases in overall traffic (up 27%), vehicle sales leads (up 18%), digital retail leads (up 37%) and trade evaluations (up 61%).”

www.speedwaydigest.com

AMP Energy Teams Up with Dale Earnhardt Jr. and other AMP Energy Athletes to Re-Introduce Popular Flavor by Celebrating with the Ultimate Orange Burnout - Speedway Digest - Home for NASCAR News

Surrounded by the sound of screeching tires and the sight of custom orange smoke, No. 88 AMP Energy driver Dale Earnhardt Jr. celebrated the return of AMP Energy Orange with a signature racing tradition – the burnout. As racing’s most popular driver, Earnhardt took to Caesars Palace on the Las...
www.speedwaydigest.com www.speedwaydigest.com
 
aunty dive said:
Why does Hendrickcars.com sponsor Larson’s cars (other than significant reductions in income taxes payable?)

“ The more we followed the data, the easier the decision became. We are seeing clear results.”

“Five of HendrickCars.com’s six highest-traffic days of the year have been attributed to its sponsorship of the No. 5 team, including four Cup Series race days when Larson led the most laps or won. In February, the reveal of the HendrickCars.com paint scheme drove the site’s highest one-day visitor count in more than 12 months. Since then, it has seen significant increases in overall traffic (up 27%), vehicle sales leads (up 18%), digital retail leads (up 37%) and trade evaluations (up 61%).”

www.speedwaydigest.com

AMP Energy Teams Up with Dale Earnhardt Jr. and other AMP Energy Athletes to Re-Introduce Popular Flavor by Celebrating with the Ultimate Orange Burnout - Speedway Digest - Home for NASCAR News

Surrounded by the sound of screeching tires and the sight of custom orange smoke, No. 88 AMP Energy driver Dale Earnhardt Jr. celebrated the return of AMP Energy Orange with a signature racing tradition – the burnout. As racing’s most popular driver, Earnhardt took to Caesars Palace on the Las...
www.speedwaydigest.com www.speedwaydigest.com
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Like I said, always assume that whatever a driver or owner tells the media has some element of PR spin.
 
Hendrick is also known for not under selling sponsorship just to have something on the car. So just because they have a lot of people wanting to be on a car doesn't mean much if they're not willing to pay what HMS wants because clearly the price point has very little wiggle room.

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wi_racefan said:
Hendrick is also known for not under selling sponsorship just to have something on the car. So just because they have a lot of people wanting to be on a car doesn't mean much if they're not willing to pay what HMS wants because clearly the price point has very little wiggle room.

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Exactly. Hendrick has a price point and he has to make Larson appealing enough to get to it. Like any business man, he'll BS the media in order to get them to print what he needs to sell his message. The guy is probably the most cunning owner in NASCAR history. Is Hendrick turning down offers? Probably. Would he prefer not to? You bet your ass.
 
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