The Attendance Thread

IDK what the seating capacity is at Texas so it is hard to estimate attendance. Obviously there were thousands and thousands of empty seats but it still could have been a decent crowd by today’s standards.
 
IDK why anyone would be defensive or happy about empty seats or NASCAR’s attendance issues.
 
Last year was empty too so not like this is anything new for Texas. I honestly think there might have been a few more people in turns 4 and turn 1 than last year.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I know under different circumstances I could have great conversation with you on any number of topics. You are well informed, fair and look at things without agenda. You are not emotionally involved in the subjects either so that means you are rational.

Ok enough of the niceties! I’m not sure what can be gleaned from NASCAR’s attendance as it is what it is. There could be so many reasons why people don’t go to the track anymore. It could be financial, health related, HDTV, bad value for the buck. Who knows? I have attended many Nascar events over the years and no longer attend. I only know why I stopped going.
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the green new deal?
 
IanMcVittie said:
IDK what the seating capacity is at Texas so it is hard to estimate attendance. Obviously there were thousands and thousands of empty seats but it still could have been a decent crowd by today’s standards.
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A little over 180,000. Texas never ripped out any of their seats like a lot of other tracks have, so it tends to look pretty empty. The fact that it was only about 50 degrees there yesterday probably didn’t help matters either.
 
ToyYoda said:
A little over 180,000. Texas never ripped out any of their seats like a lot of other tracks have, so it tends to look pretty empty. The fact that it was only about 50 degrees there yesterday probably didn’t help matters either.
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That is a boatload of seats and IDK why they haven’t removed a lot of them or covered them up. I don’t have a guess at attendance but even if it was 35% full it would be a good sized crowd, IMO.
 
I mean, if I want to sit on my couch in FL and point out how few fans there are at Texas when I've already gone to Daytona and Atlanta, I don't see why that's an issue. I can't go to all 36 races but I do at least go to the close ones. Those people aren't even doing that.

Just tallied it up, I've been to 23 cup races in the past 6 years. That's not even counting trucks and Xfin. I'd say I've earned my right.
 
ToyYoda said:
A little over 180,000. Texas never ripped out any of their seats like a lot of other tracks have, so it tends to look pretty empty. The fact that it was only about 50 degrees there yesterday probably didn’t help matters either.
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False. That 180k includes the backstretch stands that they took out years ago. I believe the front holds "only" 110-120k.

I remember reading a Jayski article about plans to encircle the track in grandstands...my oh my how times have changed.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
I mean, if I want to sit on my couch in FL and point out how few fans there are at Texas when I've already gone to Daytona and Atlanta, I don't see why that's an issue. I can't go to all 36 races but I do at least go to the close ones. Those people aren't even doing that.

Just tallied it up, I've been to 23 cup races in the past 6 years. That's not even counting trucks and Xfin. I'd say I've earned my right.
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I have lost track of how many Busch, Cup and IROC races I have been to over the last 30-40 years. I know it has been a lot spread over several tracks though.

I don’t think a person has to have attended one race to notice and comment on what attendance looks like at any given track.
 
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https://jeffgluck.com/nascar-texas-motor-speedway-race-results-analysis-2019/
 
Gluck wrote an article defending the loss of 50%+ percent of the people that used to go to NASCAR events. He even states that a crowd of 40,000 people is OK. That’s all I needed to read. The status quoe is fine with him. He never stops to think or touch upon what happened to all the fans that went away, what caused them to go away, and how NASCAR might be able to get them back. NASCAR collapsed under a weight of apathy from its leadership. In response to the issues surrounding the sport, NASCAR’s leadership employed various gimmicks in a lack luster attempt to stem the flow of fans leaving. As much as the everything is OK in NASCARland crowd would like to marginalize the voices of those that point out the ills of the sport, and shout that all is well - I think we all know that it isn’t and hasn’t been for many years. Yesterday’s crowd was a prime example of the ills of the sport and it was broadcast on network TV for all to see.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
False. That 180k includes the backstretch stands that they took out years ago. I believe the front holds "only" 110-120k.

I remember reading a Jayski article about plans to encircle the track in grandstands...my oh my how times have changed.
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Like the guy in the orthopedic shoes says, I stand corrected.
 
DIDIT said:
Kind of reminds me when I would catch my kids in a lie or doing something they were not supposed to. Their first reaction was to be defiant or argumentative when I approached them. Immediately I knew something was wrong.
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Great analogy. IDK why so many become instantly defensive when speaking of TV ratings or attendance but it is so unnecessary. If Texas had 35k in attendance that would put it in line with Cali and Martinsville.

My opinion is that Cali and Texas should be able to draw 50k due to the size of the market they are in. It is just an opinion and nothing more but some won’t react well to it.
 
Towmater said:
Gluck wrote an article defending the loss of 50%+ percent of the people that used to go to NASCAR events. He even states that a crowd of 40,000 people is OK. That’s all I needed to read. The status quoe is fine with him. He never stops to think or touch upon what happened to all the fans that went away, what caused them to go away, and how NASCAR might be able to get them back. NASCAR collapsed under a weight of apathy from its leadership. In response to the issues surrounding the sport, NASCAR’s leadership employed various gimmicks in a lack luster attempt to stem the flow of fans leaving. As much as the everything is OK in NASCARland crowd would like to marginalize the voices of those that point out the ills of the sport, and shout that all is well - I think we all know that it isn’t and hasn’t been for many years. Yesterday’s crowd was a prime example of the ills of the sport and it was broadcast on network TV for all to see.
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I do understand that a different measuring stick needs to be used from the boom years. However the boom has been over for many years and attendance and interest continues to slide.
 
yep it is what most of us have been saying for awhile about the crowds, they are fairly typical of today's attendance..but some who are trying their best to create drama, constantly refer to days and times of old to make their tired same ol same ol we already know that drama. Motorsports in general has suffered declines, MLB BTW had their lowest attendance average in 15 years..but according to a poster here they had good revenues..same for Nascar.
 
First let me say attendance/stadiums have always interested me since I was a kid. I was always fascinated at 100k at the "Big House" or Rose Bowl or 400k at the Indy 500. As a kid I never could comprehend why Daytona didn't have more seats. Granted, the Winston Tower that was completed in 1988 gave the track an iconic look. As I've gotten older and had a chance to travel to various sporting events this stuff still intrigues me. It also interests a lot of people which is why it's still a talking point. Just ask the Phillies organization this year. Syracuse goes out of their way to boost their once a year 30k+ crowds for basketball. They literally sell t-shirts touting attendance for certain games! (I've been there for a few of them but never bought the shirt) It's an awesome experience! It's a great look for college basketball and ESPN plays it up.

People like to be a part of something with energy and excitement. Gluck used the word "optics" which is a term that has taken off in the sports entertainment world. It's in a way like saying "perception is reality". People don't tune into the Rose Bowl on January 1st to see empty seats and an ugly field. NASCAR before the boom still had "mostly" packed grandstands of modest capacity and a party atmosphere in the infields. It played well in person and on TV. My dad's old 1990 NASCAR Media Guide that I have suggests an average capacity of 55k. Sadly when the boom happened it created a perception that was never going to be sustainable.

The crowd at Martinsville last week likely would have sold out the track in the early 90's when the sport was perfectly healthy and definitely mainstream. Sitting in my seat that's basically how I looked at it. I do think some of the tracks should be able to due a little better. Perhaps downsizing the schedule where most tracks have 1 date could help drive up demand and excitement which would help with the "optics"? Over time certain tracks could perhaps regain dates if it was warranted.
 
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StandOnIt said:
yep it is what most of us have been saying for awhile about the crowds, they are fairly typical of today's attendance..but some who are trying their best to create drama, constantly refer to days and times of old to make their tired same ol same ol we already know that drama. Motorsports in general has suffered declines, MLB BTW had their lowest attendance average in 15 years..but according to a poster here they had good revenues..same for Nascar.
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Unfortunately not only has Nascar had to deal with fans leaving en masse after the boom but also a slow and steady erosion over the past 7 years or so. IMO it is important to not drop any lower than current levels.
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
First let me say attendance/stadiums have always interested me since I was a kid. I was always fascinated at 100k at the "Big House" or Rose Bowl or 400k at the Indy 500. As a kid I never could comprehend why Daytona didn't have more seats. Granted, the Winston Tower that was completed in 1988 gave the track an iconic look. As I've gotten older and had a chance to travel to various sporting events this stuff still intrigues me. It also interests a lot of people which is why it's still a talking point. Just ask the Phillies organization this year. Syracuse goes out of their way to boost their once a year 30k+ crowds for basketball. They literally sell t-shirts touting attendance for certain games! (I've been there for a few of them but never bought the shirt) It's an awesome experience! It's a great look for college basketball and ESPN plays it up.

People like to be a part of something with energy and excitement. Gluck used the word "optics" which is a term that has taken off in the sports entertainment world. It's in a way like saying "perception is reality". People don't tune into the Rose Bowl on January 1st to see empty seats and an ugly field. NASCAR before the boom still had "mostly" packed grandstands of modest capacity and a party atmosphere in the infields. It played well in person and on TV. My dad's old 1990 NASCAR Media Guide that I have suggests an average capacity of 55k. Sadly when the boom happened it created a perception that was never going to be sustainable.

The crowd at Martinsville last week likely would have sold out the track in the early 90's when the sport was perfectly healthy and definitely mainstream. Sitting in my seat that's basically how I looked at it. I do think some of the tracks should be able to due a little better. Perhaps downsizing the schedule where most tracks have 1 date could help drive up demand and excitement which would help with the "optics"? Over time certain tracks could perhaps regain dates if it was warranted.
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I think downsizing the schedule and exiting some markets would be wise.
 
Our eyeballs don’t deceive us as attendance keeps falling and the common areas and motor home parking places are not moving the needle. Ancillary events will have to prop up the continuing smaller revenue Nascar provides.
 
Mother Nature has been pretty kind to NASCAR so far this year. That typically is excuse #1 used by pollyanna corporate folks.Let's hope she does so again Sunday.
 
DIDIT said:
Mother Nature has been pretty kind to NASCAR so far this year. That typically is excuse #1 used by pollyanna corporate folks.Let's hope she does so again Sunday.
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I sure hope that the weather for Bristol is great for all concerned. I think this is the week the 35k attendance barrier is smashed and it could even be doubled.
 
The optics of this week are going to be interesting. Only selling seats along the straight is going to create a look that has really never been seen outside of the Brickyard. I'm prepared to just think back to "better times" when Bristol had a practical capacity and was truly part of Thunder Valley. Then Brutan Smith tried to create a late 20th century Romanesque Coliseum for automobile racing.

For the record I ALWAYS thought Bristol "sold out" trying to be too big for its own good. Brutan forced the issue too much. He took a similar route with Charlotte but that had an early jump in prestige to go along with a better location.

decades_lg.jpg
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
The optics of this week are going to be interesting. Only selling seats along the straight is going to create a look that has really never been seen outside of the Brickyard. I'm prepared to just think back to "better times" when Bristol had a practical capacity and was truly part of Thunder Valley. Then Brutan Smith tried to create a late 20th century Romanesque Coliseum for automobile racing.

For the record I ALWAYS thought Bristol "sold out" trying to be too big for its own good. Brutan forced the issue too much. He took a similar route with Charlotte but that had an early jump in prestige to go along with a better location.

decades_lg.jpg
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It is possible that the old BIR of the mid 1980’s will end up having higher attendance than the BMS of today. I never thought that would ever be a consideration.
 
IanMcVittie said:
It is possible that the old BIR of the mid 1980’s will end up having higher attendance than the BMS of today. I never thought that would ever be a consideration.
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I think the crowd will be better this Sunday than it was at any time during the 80's. The weather looks good and this is still a destination spot even though its not the night race. I'd hedge my bets and the say the crowd is good. Even so, 60k in a place that has a blatant 100k empty seats is going to look "interesting" i.e. not good imo. I'd love for them to shoe the place! An open northend would give fans an awesome view of the local mountains.

I've never been to Bristol but it remains on my list for sure. It's not far distance wise from Martinsville which likely doesn't help either track at this point since the dates are two weeks apart. I tossed around going to Bristol instead of Martinsville but far more favorable ticket prices and the overall history at the Paper Clip brought me there.

BTW, I know it's Bruton Smith not Brutan. When I post from my phone things tend to get whacky....
 
KodiakRusty89 said:
I think the crowd will be better this Sunday than it was at any time during the 80's. The weather looks good and this is still a destination spot even though its not the night race. I'd hedge my bets and the say the crowd is good. Even so, 60k in a place that has a blatant 100k empty seats is going to look "interesting" i.e. not good imo. I'd love for them to shoe the place! An open northend would give fans an awesome view of the local mountains.

I've never been to Bristol but it remains on my list for sure. It's not far distance wise from Martinsville which likely doesn't help either track at this point since the dates are two weeks apart. I tossed around going to Bristol instead of Martinsville but far more favorable ticket prices and the overall history at the Paper Clip brought me there.

BTW, I know it's Bruton Smith not Brutan. When I post from my phone things tend to get whacky....
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I had seasons tix to the Bristol night race for 25 years so I can strongly recommend that everyone should see a race there. Even if they just saw the track and facility it would be impressive. I think 50-60k for this race would be outstanding.
 
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