The Cucumber Returns

Speedbowl14 said:
I was thinking one race suspension and calling it a day. Glad to see some real stiff penalties here.

I can't figure this out... is it zero points for the cucumbered win, and then minus 25 points on top of that? Or full points awarded for the race, and now a 25 point penalty?
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I believe it’s the latter - he went from 32nd to 26th and back to 31st in the regular season points.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
1) The SMT data probably helped quantify just how much Dillon actually swerved across the track and showed how Denny didn’t really clear himself and, if anything, actually exited a touch shallower than he had done previously.

2) I think they would argue it didn’t elevate to that level because it wasn’t a high-speed intermediate like we saw with Chase and Bubba.
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Nobody needed SMT data to know he intentionally wrecked the 22 and 11

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Spotter22 said:
Dennis loves to play the victim, lets go back and check with all of the drivers he wrecked on the last lap and see how they felt. Now this is a douchebag.
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But he never wrecked 2 in the same corner for the win

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Greg said:
I know I have said it before: I hate all bump-and-runs, and some want to write this one off as just another one of them.

I think the big difference is the four car lengths. There is no way even to excuse it, too far away to claim a brake check caused it or that he just missed his marks for braking, etc.
It was clear that he planned on hitting Logano without any pretense of trying to race him cleanly.

But I will concede that NASCAR has been allowing this kind of crap, and people have been loving and treating bump-and-runs like something glorious for a long time. Dillon just went over the top.

Rubbing is racing, and it can be a great thing to watch. I just wish it was more coincidental, or a battle of two drivers pushing the limits of their equipment while still respecting each other.

But I have always thought a last-lap intentional bump and run is chicken**** stuff. It isn't what racing should be about.

That's my opinion, others are entitled to be wrong if they wish.
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I've NEVER had an issue with a legitimate bump and run ( meaning you banged on a guys rear bumper multiple times before moving him) but do it at your own peril. Moving someone is fine, but if you spin them, then to the back of the field you go. In the case of Dillon, there probably wasn't time to throw the black flag before he crossed the finish line, but it SHOULD have been displayed when he came back around, along with a message to the spotter and or crew chief for Austin to take his car to pit road. If NASCAR REALLY felt the need to discuss something, then just put the race under review for 2-5 minutes, and then allow the PROPER winner to go do the victory celebration. The three should have been moved to the last car running, or flat out DQ'd on the spot, with any additional penalties to follow. It only took NASCAR seconds to black flag Ricky Rudd over an incident far less egregious than this. This would have put an end to all of this silliness three days ago and allowed everybody at the track and those on TV and radio to know what was happening before anybody left or tuned out. In typical NASCAR fashion, they can turn the simplest things into mind numbing minutiae that takes days to play out and makes everyone look foolish. My question is now, what happens if a driver already in the playoffs makes the same moves, what's the penalty? NASCAR had a golden opportunity to set an absolute precedent with a clear cut primary penalty for such actions, and once again, like usual, they fumbled the ball.
 
Spotter22 said:
But the others got away with it.
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I can’t get a read on your position in this whole deal. But as someone like yourself that’s been involved in the sport as long as you have and you dont think what Dillon did was a complete clown show, that’s a shame.
 
I can't fathom how much old video RCR will show up with at the Appeal process on wrecks on the last couple of laps of racing, where the same thing happened and nothing was done about it. Nascar created the monster, now they're trying to stop it. Remember "have at it boys", "We're putting it back in the drivers hands".
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I can’t get a read on your position in this whole deal. But as someone like yourself that’s been involved in the sport as long as you have and you dont think what Dillon did was a complete clown show, that’s a shame.
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You can read the history of my opinion in this and the race thread, my problem is they should have suspended the 3 and then let him apply for the waiver. Opinions change after having time to reflect and remove yourself from the heat of the moment.
 
Spotter22 said:
You can read the history of my opinion in this and the race thread, my problem is they should have suspended the 3 and then let him apply for the waiver. Opinions change after having time to reflect and remove yourself from the heat of the moment.
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Fair enough. I didn’t really have a problem when he took out the 22 even as desperate as it was, I have a problem when he took out the 11 right hooking him . That’s when it jumped the shark for me and that’s how I perceived it at the time as I’ve stuck with that position. I think I joked in the race thread “he rattled two cages tonight” but that whole scenario is not a good look for the sport imo. I have zero problem nascar took away his playoff berth, if you thought he should get a waiver well I don’t know about that. The whole scenario of him applying for one would be a sham in my eyes, but even if he were to get it it’d be harmless in the grand scheme of things. Ain’t no way he’s winning a race again this regular season and even with Daytona on the horizon, I think the 11 or 22 would see fit the 3 wouldn’t win.

I thought it was the right thing to do…. in his blatant desperation, Dillon engineered an even more blatantly reckless move that could have put a competitors harm at risk. That’s the issue I have, the recklessness of it all. I’ve cheered as a fan for bump and runs. I have cheered on here and on my couch when a guy got even, case in point Chase Elliott vs Denny Hamlin a number of years ago at Phoenix I think it was. Cheered Matt Kenseth vs Logano 10 years ago and admittedly shameful, when Gordon got even vs Bowyer. I think Earnhardt rattling Labontes cage was awesome. I don’t condone a get even move or a “checkers or wreckers”when a guys health and livelihood is at risk, that’s not cool. Hypocrite…. Maybe, but to me Dillon crossed a line on Sunday Night.
 
SeventyGTX said:
Which brought us the farce called "Nascar Overtime" and another guy that should have won does not. I am in no way an Austin Dillon fan.
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I'm not either. Anyone heard what Elton or Steve said what the difference is? I understand 2 cars went around, I get the 11 but not the 22. Doesn't matter if he used the 22 as a brake, we see this type of shat all the time. Hey 8 tires corner better the 4 etc... It's obvious that the 3 drove in all gas no brake, but lets say he was 1 car length back and still went in and never touched the brake like so many many others have done, what's the problem? Now the RR hook on the 11 deserves a penalty which if you look back has been suspension like Elliott, Wallace were. Its just my opinion but I think they should have let the 3 have the waiver like the others but after this, its over. Everyone is on notice.
 
Spotter22 said:
I'm not either. Anyone heard what Elton or Steve said what the difference is? I understand 2 cars went around, I get the 11 but not the 22. Doesn't matter if he used the 22 as a brake, we see this type of shat all the time. Hey 8 tires corner better the 4 etc... It's obvious that the 3 drove in all gas no brake, but lets say he was 1 car length back and still went in and never touched the brake like so many many others have done, what's the problem? Now the RR hook on the 11 deserves a penalty which if you look back has been suspension like Elliott, Wallace were. Its just my opinion but I think they should have let the 3 have the waiver like the others but after this, its over. Everyone is on notice.
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The last part of this, where you say everyone on notice now, I hope we can all agree that will be the case.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Fair enough. I didn’t really have a problem when he took out the 22 even as desperate as it was, I have a problem when he took out the 11 right hooking him . That’s when it jumped the shark for me and that’s how I perceived it at the time as I’ve stuck with that position. I think I joked in the race thread “he rattled two cages tonight” but that whole scenario is not a good look for the sport imo. I have zero problem nascar took away his playoff berth, if you thought he should get a waiver well I don’t know about that. The whole scenario of him applying for one would be a sham in my eyes, but even if he were to get it it’d be harmless in the grand scheme of things. Ain’t no way he’s winning a race again this regular season and even with Daytona on the horizon, I think the 11 or 22 would see fit the 3 wouldn’t win.

I thought it was the right thing to do…. in his blatant desperation, Dillon engineered an even more blatantly reckless move that could have put a competitors harm at risk. That’s the issue I have, the recklessness of it all. I’ve cheered as a fan for bump and runs. I have cheered on here and on my couch when a guy got even, case in point Chase Elliott vs Denny Hamlin a number of years ago at Phoenix I think it was. Cheered Matt Kenseth vs Logano 10 years ago and admittedly shameful, when Gordon got even vs Bowyer. I think Earnhardt rattling Labontes cage was awesome. I don’t condone a get even move or a “checkers or wreckers”when a guys health and livelihood is at risk, that’s not cool. Hypocrite…. Maybe, but to me Dillon crossed a line on Sunday Night.
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I understand and respect your opinion.
Jorge De Guzman said:
The last part of this, where you say everyone on notice now, I hope we can all agree that will be the case.
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They better lol
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Fair enough. I didn’t really have a problem when he took out the 22 even as desperate as it was, I have a problem when he took out the 11 right hooking him . That’s when it jumped the shark for me and that’s how I perceived it at the time as I’ve stuck with that position. I think I joked in the race thread “he rattled two cages tonight” but that whole scenario is not a good look for the sport imo. I have zero problem nascar took away his playoff berth, if you thought he should get a waiver well I don’t know about that. The whole scenario of him applying for one would be a sham in my eyes, but even if he were to get it it’d be harmless in the grand scheme of things. Ain’t no way he’s winning a race again this regular season and even with Daytona on the horizon, I think the 11 or 22 would see fit the 3 wouldn’t win.

I thought it was the right thing to do…. in his blatant desperation, Dillon engineered an even more blatantly reckless move that could have put a competitors harm at risk. That’s the issue I have, the recklessness of it all. I’ve cheered as a fan for bump and runs. I have cheered on here and on my couch when a guy got even, case in point Chase Elliott vs Denny Hamlin a number of years ago at Phoenix I think it was. Cheered Matt Kenseth vs Logano 10 years ago and admittedly shameful, when Gordon got even vs Bowyer. I think Earnhardt rattling Labontes cage was awesome. I don’t condone a get even move or a “checkers or wreckers”when a guys health and livelihood is at risk, that’s not cool. Hypocrite…. Maybe, but to me Dillon crossed a line on Sunday Night.
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I rooted for Earnhardt a lot but I never liked the way he took out Labonte. Labonte had the better car and if I recall correctly he had newer tires.
The only way Dale could have won was to take out Labonte after a late caution and he did, and it was dirty.

He got a lot of boos and if I read his body language correctly he was embarrassed.
 
Greg said:
I rooted for Earnhardt a lot but I never liked the way he took out Labonte. Labonte had the better car and if I recall correctly he had newer tires.
The only way Dale could have won was to take out Labonte and he did, and it was dirty.

He got a lot of boos and if I read his body language correctly he was embarrassed.
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Yea I can’t say why I cheered that, I was 14 at the time, had just finished up my first week of high school(crazy the things you remember and why) and just was very impressionable I guess. I thought it was so cool, I don’t know how I feel about it now as an almost 40 year old man. I think you used a good word, embarrassed. Embarrassed I liked it and probably still would maybe.
 
Greg said:
I rooted for Earnhardt a lot but I never liked the way he took out Labonte. Labonte had the better car and if I recall correctly he had newer tires.
The only way Dale could have won was to take out Labonte after a late caution and he did, and it was dirty.

He got a lot of boos and if I read his body language correctly he was embarrassed.
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He def was.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Yea I can’t say why I cheered that, I was 14 at the time, had just finished up my first week of high school(crazy the things you remember and why) and just was very impressionable I guess. I thought it was so cool, I don’t know how I feel about it now as an almost 40 year old man. I think you used a good word, embarrassed. Embarrassed I liked it and probably still would maybe.
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If I told everything I did when I was younger I would probably need to relocate.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Yea I can’t say why I cheered that, I was 14 at the time, had just finished up my first week of high school(crazy the things you remember and why) and just was very impressionable I guess. I thought it was so cool, I don’t know how I feel about it now as an almost 40 year old man. I think you used a good word, embarrassed. Embarrassed I liked it and probably still would maybe.
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It was exciting even though it was boneheaded. That's why I love this sport
 
Spotter22 said:
It was exciting even though it was boneheaded. That's why I love this sport
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Yes. Very exciting and after two rough years, showed he still had the fire and want to even though after what I’ve read of him and JR’s podcast, he was overcoming neck issues but we didn’t know that at the time as fans. Sunday was more like a “Holy $hit” moment
 
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