The People vs NASCAR

Are we still of the opinion “Shut up and drive?”
 
kkfan91 said:
The people are being whiney idiots who also have no clue what they want and thus blame NASCAR. The sport is fine its a segment of the fan base that's the problem.
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Blame the customer. That's ALWAYS the recipe for success. :rolleyes:
 
StandOnIt said:
He runs an engineering and manufacturing business. ;)
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Meanwhile NASCAR is not sharing the details of the car’s safety with the drivers, even when asked. They aren’t even sharing chassis with Harvick’s tire test coming up.

Pretty hard to make any hardline opinions on that aspect when there is no distribution of information from the heads who own the information.

That’s the whole reason many drivers are frustrated. Even when they ask for more communication, they have the door shut in their face.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Meanwhile NASCAR is not sharing the details of the car’s safety with the drivers, even when asked. They aren’t even sharing chassis with Harvick’s tire test coming up.

Pretty hard to make any hardline opinions on that aspect when there is no distribution of information from the heads who own the information.

That’s the whole reason many drivers are frustrated. Even when they ask for more communication, they have the door shut in their face.
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Probably working on getting it certified by the experts which is what the memo they wrote recently says. Recently word came out the the sled malfunctioned not the dummy so the test was deemed a failure. I remember you were all hysterical about that also. Ya see in todays world you want experts to certify the safety of the product so if it goes to court you have something to defend yourself from lawsuits.
 
Not consulting the drivers/teams about track changers, rule changes ect is one thing and IMO that’s not a big deal nor do they have to. But withholding information of the Nextgens safety tests wouldn’t inspire much confidence if I was a driver. I can understand why they are frustrated.
 
StandOnIt said:
Recently word came out the the sled malfunctioned not the dummy so the test was deemed a failure.
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You say this and miss the exact point that drivers are making right now. There was another miscommunication and the update wasn’t told to who needed to be told. After new info comes out, drivers are still answering questions about it with zero knowledge of new information released. Like Hamlin said, the entire system of communication is broken.


StandOnIt said:
I remember you were all hysterical about that also. Ya see in todays world you want experts to certify the safety of the product so if it goes to court you have something to defend yourself from lawsuits.
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As for this, again - what the **** are you talking about?
 
antman12 said:
Not consulting the drivers/teams about track changers, rule changes ect is one thing and IMO that’s not a big deal nor do they have to. But withholding information of the Nextgens safety tests wouldn’t inspire much confidence if I was a driver. I can understand why they are frustrated.
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I can too, but they had a meeting and I can only imagine they were a bit vague because the car isn't done. They have just started crash testing the real thing..changes will be made they always have to be without any exceptions. They are still making revisions to the gen 6 car.
 
antman12 said:
Not consulting the drivers/teams about track changers, rule changes ect is one thing and IMO that’s not a big deal nor do they have to. But withholding information of the Nextgens safety tests wouldn’t inspire much confidence if I was a driver. I can understand why they are frustrated.
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What corporation do you work for where job situation changes aren’t discussed with the employees? I just want to steer clear of that work environment.
In the real world these changes are made by discussions that involve all participants.
NASCAR will continue to shoot their own feet. This isn’t sustainable. The on-track product is getting worse and worse.
 
BobbyFord said:
What corporation do you work for where job situation changes aren’t discussed with the employees? I just want to steer clear of that work environment.
In the real world these changes are made by discussions that involve all participants.
NASCAR will continue to shoot their own feet. This isn’t sustainable. The on-track product is getting worse and worse.
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I do not work for a corporation. Regarding discussions about rule and track changes I do not have strong feelings either way. My main point was the safety information of the new car should be fully transparent and made available immediately which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Not into or looking to e-fight. Enjoy your night sir.
 
antman12 said:
I do not work for a corporation. Regarding discussions about rule and track changes I do not have strong feelings either way. My main point was the safety information of the new car should be fully transparent and made available immediately which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Not into or looking to e-fight. Enjoy your night sir.
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I can agree with that. I believe any and all changes should be transparent with all involved parties.
Not looking for an e-fight either. You have a great night, too.
 
Yes I would like to drop a people's elbow on NASCAR from the top rope big aero efforts.
 
antman12 said:
I do not work for a corporation. Regarding discussions about rule and track changes I do not have strong feelings either way. My main point was the safety information of the new car should be fully transparent and made available immediately which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Not into or looking to e-fight. Enjoy your night sir.
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It's July also and they haven't done any crash testing besides computer simulations. Doesn't make much sense to me anyway to be transparent about that until they get hard data from the car in real situations. I'm sure they are close, but they need real time real car data would be my guess. I know we modeled pieces on cad but we always had to make changes here and there after it was designed and field tested
 
StandOnIt said:
It's July also and they haven't done any crash testing besides computer simulations. Doesn't make much sense to me anyway to be transparent about that until they get hard data from the car in real situations. I'm sure they are close, but they need real time real car data would be my guess. I know we modeled pieces on cad but we always had to make changes here and there after it was designed and field tested
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Transparency makes no sense to you? I’m shocked I tell ya…😱
 
StandOnIt said:
Comprehension problems? I'm not surprised
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cheesepuffs said:
I'm waiting for the "facts and science" crew here to check in and paint a Cup veteran as a whackjob conspiracy theorist with not enough credibility to be trusted.
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Well, when comes to sciencing out race cars to work the larger tracks to make everyone happy:
One has to anticipate and manage the yaws, pitch, and roll, the spherical coordinations, Eulars rotation theorim, and the angular velocities and so forth.....

It gets complicated
 
Greg said:
Well, when comes to sciencing out race cars to work the larger tracks to make everyone happy:
One has to anticipate and manage the yaws, pitch, and roll, the spherical coordinations, Eulars rotation theorim, and the angular velocities and so forth.....

It gets complicated
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I didn't know your were an aero guy
 
BobbyFord said:
Transparency makes no sense to you? I’m shocked I tell ya…😱
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maybe you can comprehend this coming from somebody diffrerent. It's not from Kyle, Kez is as close as I could come

YOU HAVE ENGINEERS ON YOUR STAFF AT KAM. DO YOU GO OVER THE SPECS WITH THEM AND ASK WHAT THEY THINK? “I went and saw the car with Jay Fabian two weeks ago and just looked at some basic things on it. There was a lot of things I saw that I liked and some things I saw I didn’t care for, but that’s part of it. From a safety perspective, I thought the fundamentals looked sound. I think whether it’s racetracks or Next Gen cars, we’re in kind of a new world phase where we have all this computer generated engineering that allows us to do simulations and allows you to iterate faster and try different things to hopefully improve, but I also think there’s a tendency sometimes for us to still skip real world validation, so a good mixture of both, I think, is healthy.”

ARE YOU PATIENT WAITING FOR THE TALLADEGA CRASH TEST DATA TO BE ANALYZED OR IMPATIENT LIKE YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO KNOW? “I think the whole industry is probably a little bit impatient because they want to get started on building cars out for the Daytona test that’s coming up this fall. We want to have a great Daytona 500 with the Next Gen car and the more time we have with it, I think in some ways the better everybody would feel about it, but I don’t think I’m pushing the panic button yet. Maybe some are and some aren’t, but indications that I’ve heard is that it went OK and there’s gonna be some kind of independent review of the data and the facts and hopefully that comes out real soon.”
 
StandOnIt said:
maybe you can comprehend this coming from somebody diffrerent. It's not from Kyle, Kez is as close as I could come

YOU HAVE ENGINEERS ON YOUR STAFF AT KAM. DO YOU GO OVER THE SPECS WITH THEM AND ASK WHAT THEY THINK? “I went and saw the car with Jay Fabian two weeks ago and just looked at some basic things on it. There was a lot of things I saw that I liked and some things I saw I didn’t care for, but that’s part of it. From a safety perspective, I thought the fundamentals looked sound. I think whether it’s racetracks or Next Gen cars, we’re in kind of a new world phase where we have all this computer generated engineering that allows us to do simulations and allows you to iterate faster and try different things to hopefully improve, but I also think there’s a tendency sometimes for us to still skip real world validation, so a good mixture of both, I think, is healthy.”

ARE YOU PATIENT WAITING FOR THE TALLADEGA CRASH TEST DATA TO BE ANALYZED OR IMPATIENT LIKE YOU FEEL YOU NEED TO KNOW? “I think the whole industry is probably a little bit impatient because they want to get started on building cars out for the Daytona test that’s coming up this fall. We want to have a great Daytona 500 with the Next Gen car and the more time we have with it, I think in some ways the better everybody would feel about it, but I don’t think I’m pushing the panic button yet. Maybe some are and some aren’t, but indications that I’ve heard is that it went OK and there’s gonna be some kind of independent review of the data and the facts and hopefully that comes out real soon.”
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Yeah, Kez is in the dark, too.
I already knew that.
 
Greg said:
Well, when comes to sciencing out race cars to work the larger tracks to make everyone happy:
One has to anticipate and manage the yaws, pitch, and roll, the spherical coordinations, Eulars rotation theorim, and the angular velocities and so forth.....

It gets complicated
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It's all done with ball bearings now...and 30WT oil...
 
Greg said:
Well, when comes to sciencing out race cars to work the larger tracks to make everyone happy:
One has to anticipate and manage the yaws, pitch, and roll, the spherical coordinations, Eulars rotation theorim, and the angular velocities and so forth.....

It gets complicated
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Does Solunar come into play? My area of non-expertise lay mostly in water. However, I heard Jr hinting at successful Vortex Theory today due to highly abrasive track cheese shredder where light droplets can go to hide pot holes, heat in the tire burning off light moisture barometric humidity, constant carousel of cars air drying air titans but race cars at slack tide etc.

Seems delicate subject where one might get lost in the finer points via sciency.
 
Let's look at NASCAR from level 0 to Cup cars on national TV.

The Grassroots level has been destroyed. My hometrack, Stafford Motor Speedway, one of the premier short tracks in the nation, dropped its NASCAR sanction and has honestly been better off. They can stream races on the internet live now, driver payouts are better, and fans don't give a **** about whether or not the NASCAR name is attached or not. The NASCAR name when you're driving a street stock means almost nothing unless you can place within the top 10 of points out of hundreds of drivers in the country....then you might get a $150 check as a "thank you" at the end of the season.

If the Grassroots level has been destroyed, then the regional racing series have been absolutely decimated. It is incredible what each series looked like 15 years ago compared to now. I remember 40+ cars at Loudon in the K/N and Modfied divisions and it was not long ago at all. Now, even with buying out ARCA, the ARCA Menards series is atrocious. It can't be understated....40+ NASCAR K/N teams and 40+ ARCA teams competing in 2010 reduced to 12-20 cars at each event in 2021.

And at the national level...the trucks are rebounding. But in Xfinity the product is just Cup-Lite and has been for 10 years despite fans screaming they want short tracks and local tracks back.

And Cup level....the fans are gone and the TV money is drying up. In the past couple years we're certainly at the ****-flinging phase to see what sticks. Road courses are great. Short tracks are great. Dirt is OK. Stages are OK. Playoffs suck, the 5ish years of botched group qualifying sucked, re-building 1.5 mile tracks sucks, high downforce sucks.

The Next Gen car, rain tire racing, street courses, and more dirt tracks are certainly coming. More ****-flinging.

But what gets me is that these aren't the tough decisions. The hard stuff is 10-20 years down the road. What does this sport do when cable TV and mass media marketing are finally, truly, dead. What happens when the current automakers of our sport don't even offer a gasoline engine? What happens when guys running at the quarte mile dirt track can't find an old Monte Carlo to turn into a street stock or a 4 cylinder car from 1995 to gut-and-go? These are fundamental changes that aren't even being talked about. Other series are strengthening their ladder series. NASCAR is destroying there's. Other series have had hybrid engines for 5+ years. NASCAR says that's not happening for at least another 5+ years.


I don't want to sound like a deathbedder, but the gist of my post is that NASCAR's failures have been percolating up through the ranks the past 15 years, and it's the next 15 years that are going to be even more challenging. And I have zero faith in current management. Nor do the fans. Nor do the drivers. Truthfully, I think the charter system, as much as I hate it, is the only thing holding things together.
 
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