This sums up Nascar fans perfectly

Tennessee Racing

Tennessee Racing

Formerly Stewart Fan
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There is a point there BUT, at least in MY case, my arguments have come down to basically two things, both of which MIGHT be changing now, but are hallmarks of the Brian France era. 1) Trying to fix things that weren't broken and nobody was complaining about. 2) When the new idea didn't work, seemingly doubling down on it instead of just saying "Hey, we tried something new and it just didn't work. Sorry, we'll take a step back and re-evaluate".
 
Nascar fans may like different types of racing but one thing they are united in is a dislike of Brian France. Under his stewardship he managed to alienate millions of loyal race watching, merchandise buying and TV viewing fans. They are gone forever.
 
A Nascar fan would have to be pretty blind to the fact that Brian didn't have a racing bone in his body or had a clue about how to run a business. It's a common problem. The matriarch does the heavy lifting and after they pass on, the kids spend the money and run the business into the ground with bright ideas. Happens a lot.
 
StandOnIt said:
A Nascar fan would have to be pretty blind to the fact that Brian didn't have a racing bone in his body or had a clue about how to run a business. It's a common problem. The matriarch does the heavy lifting and after they pass on, the kids spend the money and run the business into the ground with bright ideas. Happens a lot.
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What surprises me is that if he hadn’t got busted he would still be on the throne. Surely Uncle Jim or Sissy could see what a liquored up oaf he was! How those 2 could sit back while the ship was sinking is beyond me. It didn’t hurt Brian thoughbas he sold his stock!
 
I've never understood this narrative that NASCAR fans are so fickle and idiotic that they don't know what they want. Show me were the fans are who are saying this stuff? Fans have differing opinions, like anything else in life, but that doesn't mean they constantly waffle or can't make up their minds.
 
2 Sweet said:
I've never understood this narrative that NASCAR fans are so fickle and idiotic that they don't know what they want. Show me were the fans are who are saying this stuff? Fans have differing opinions, like anything else in life, but that doesn't mean they constantly waffle or can't make up their minds.
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I don’t think it is a case of people waffling or not being able to clearly state what they want. IMO it is more a case of what they want versus what they don’t want. Some people love short track racing and hate most of the 1.5 mile tracks. Others think that a driver’s skills are best displayed on 1.5 mile tracks. Some people are fundamentally opposed to the 2019 rules changes that slow cars down at several tracks. Others think the 2019 rules will usher in more pack/close racing and better passing opportunities.

There always seem to be many things in Nascar that pit one fan against another.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I don’t think it is a case of people waffling or not being able to clearly state what they want. IMO it is more a case of what they want versus what they don’t want. Some people love short track racing and hate most of the 1.5 mile tracks. Others think that a driver’s skills are best displayed on 1.5 mile tracks. Some people are fundamentally opposed to the 2019 rules changes that slow cars down at several tracks. Others think the 2019 rules will usher in more pack/close racing and better passing opportunities.

There always seem to be many things in Nascar that pit one fan against another.
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I get that. But this “fans don’t know what they want” nonsense is just so lazy and unfounded. Some folks act like NASCAR fans are soooo irrational, and poor old NASCAR is the victim, stuck catering to every contradicting demand by all of us neanderthal fans. That’s just not how it is.

NASCAR made a bunch of radical changes that nobody asked for. Well maybe the networks and title sponsor (Nextel) pushed for many of the changes, and Brian France was dumb enough to go with it even though it didn’t need changing. Like Jackman said, when it didn’t work like they thought it would, they doubled down again and again. At least they were smart enough to realize their mistake with the COT and make significant changes with the Gen6 car.

Like Pat said, people have different opinions and you can’t please everyone. One fan wanting one thing and another fan wanting another is certainly not exclusive to NASCAR. Don’t mistake differing opinions for this wishy washy fake BS narrative.
 
2 Sweet said:
I get that. But this “fans don’t know what they want” nonsense is just so lazy and unfounded. Some folks act like NASCAR fans are soooo irrational, and poor old NASCAR is the victim, stuck catering to every contradicting demand by all of us neanderthal fans. That’s just not how it is.

NASCAR made a bunch of radical changes that nobody asked for. Well maybe the networks and title sponsor (Nextel) pushed for many of the changes, and Brian France was dumb enough to go with it even though it didn’t need changing. Like Jackman said, when it didn’t work like they thought it would, they doubled down again and again. At least they were smart enough to realize their mistake with the COT and make significant changes with the Gen6 car.

Like Pat said, people have different opinions and you can’t please everyone. One fan wanting one thing and another fan wanting another is certainly not exclusive to NASCAR. Don’t mistake differing opinions for this wishy washy fake BS narrative.
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Some of the changes were almost unanimously rejected by the fan base. An example was the COT. It was pretty universally hated when it came out a real blunder. Anybody who had a racing bone in their body couldn't like that mess that was put together by a committee. It should have never left the drawing board. The huge tire cutter splitter took away the side by side racing, anybody that knew a thing about Nascar racing should have known what that thing would do. And nobody caught the fact that the wing on the back would flip a car when they were turned backwards. If Brian had the final say about that design, he was too stupid to know how to fix it after the fact.
 
2 Sweet said:
I get that. But this “fans don’t know what they want” nonsense is just so lazy and unfounded. Some folks act like NASCAR fans are soooo irrational, and poor old NASCAR is the victim, stuck catering to every contradicting demand by all of us neanderthal fans. That’s just not how it is.

NASCAR made a bunch of radical changes that nobody asked for. Well maybe the networks and title sponsor (Nextel) pushed for many of the changes, and Brian France was dumb enough to go with it even though it didn’t need changing. Like Jackman said, when it didn’t work like they thought it would, they doubled down again and again. At least they were smart enough to realize their mistake with the COT and make significant changes with the Gen6 car.

Like Pat said, people have different opinions and you can’t please everyone. One fan wanting one thing and another fan wanting another is certainly not exclusive to NASCAR. Don’t mistake differing opinions for this wishy washy fake BS narrative.
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I agree that Nascar fans are not stupid or fickle. The most I have ever heard of that sort of thing has been right here and it is often said tongue in cheek or at least I think so.

Obviously compounding poor decision upon poor decision is never the way to go but Nascar doesn’t know that yet. It seems like Nascar does not and has not had the correct people in decision making capacities for many years. The CoT took 7 years from inception to being on track and if that isn’t a scathing indictment I don’t know what is.

IMO Nascar has the best fans in the world as they have been subjected to a lot of nonsense over the years. Yes a lot have left but there is still a relatively large hardcore base of fans.
 
IanMcVittie said:
It seems like Nascar does not and has not had the correct people in decision making capacities for many years.
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Yep. The people making these decisions aren't race fans. The networks, title sponsor, Brian France, etc. They have no idea what's best for NASCAR. The only "fans" they are in tune with are the casuals from focus groups who don't really care much about NASCAR regardless of what changes they do or don't make.

Luckily Brian is gone and it seems like we now have much better leadership in place.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yep. The people making these decisions aren't race fans. The networks, title sponsor, Brian France, etc. They have no idea what's best for NASCAR. The only "fans" they are in tune with are the casuals from focus groups who don't really care much about NASCAR regardless of what changes they do or don't make.

Luckily Brian is gone and it seems like we now have much better leadership in place.
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I'll go a step further and say they were catering to their own "best thinking" about the direction the sport needed to move and weren't listening to anybody but themselves.
 
2 Sweet said:
Yep. The people making these decisions aren't race fans. The networks, title sponsor, Brian France, etc. They have no idea what's best for NASCAR. The only "fans" they are in tune with are the casuals from focus groups who don't really care much about NASCAR regardless of what changes they do or don't make.

Luckily Brian is gone and it seems like we now have much better leadership in place.
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Good points. I totally understand the need to attract casuals and new fans but I think most of the attempts have been at the expense of fans in long standing. Even though I am not a big fan of the 2019 rules I hope they were implemented as a result of good data. Regardless I hope they are received well as it would be a great shot in the arm for the series.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'll go a step further and say they were catering to their own "best thinking" about the direction the sport needed to move and weren't listening to anybody but themselves.
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I agree and your point about third generation ownership was well taken earlier on in the thread. Sometimes company owners isolate themselves from their customers and think they know best. Kind of like the new Coke thing back in the 80’s
 
StandOnIt said:
Some of the changes were almost unanimously rejected by the fan base. An example was the COT. It was pretty universally hated when it came out a real blunder. Anybody who had a racing bone in their body couldn't like that mess that was put together by a committee. It should have never left the drawing board. The huge tire cutter splitter took away the side by side racing, anybody that knew a thing about Nascar racing should have known what that thing would do. And nobody caught the fact that the wing on the back would flip a car when they were turned backwards. If Brian had the final say about that design, he was too stupid to know how to fix it after the fact.
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Unfortunately, remnants of the COT are still around. Next year we go back to the front splitter and giant rear spoiler. Cars still tend to cut tires with any side by side contact. Both the splitter and the wing were installed to attract the "younger crowd" to make the cars look "cool". It had the opposite effect as we know now. Completely agree that the rear wing should have never left the drawing board.
 
LouieLouie said:
Unfortunately, remnants of the COT are still around. Next year we go back to the front splitter and giant rear spoiler. Cars still tend to cut tires with any side by side contact. Both the splitter and the wing were installed to attract the "younger crowd" to make the cars look "cool". It had the opposite effect as we know now. Completely agree that the rear wing should have never left the drawing board.
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Even the wing and the splitter wouldn't have been so bad if we had gotten cars like THIS, instead of a half assed attempt to look like a hillbilly tuner car. A decade removed from the CoT debacle, and NASCAR STILL doesn't have cars that look anywhere as good as this, and for the life of me I don't understand WHY.
 
LouieLouie said:
Unfortunately, remnants of the COT are still around. Next year we go back to the front splitter and giant rear spoiler. Cars still tend to cut tires with any side by side contact. Both the splitter and the wing were installed to attract the "younger crowd" to make the cars look "cool". It had the opposite effect as we know now. Completely agree that the rear wing should have never left the drawing board.
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the large rear spoiler has been around for a lot longer than the C.O.T. But yeah they went straight back to stupid and brought the splitter around to the side again. They had taken it off the wrap around side in one of the revisions to the latest cars. Eh, who knows what they will show up with this year at the tracks until we see them
 
Formerjackman said:
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Even the wing and the splitter wouldn't have been so bad if we had gotten cars like THIS, instead of a half assed attempt to look like a hillbilly tuner car. A decade removed from the CoT debacle, and NASCAR STILL doesn't have cars that look anywhere as good as this, and for the life of me I don't understand WHY.
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That car looks like a stock car modified to go racing and it looks great.

Every time someone mentions how nice it would be for Nascar to use cars that looked like stock cars someone always gets upset. You here nebulous terms like “lifestyle fan” used to describe fans of stock looking cars. Of course that is followed by 4 paragraphs of how the old cars were nothing like stock cars.

All I know is the CoT caused a lot of people to leave Nascar and one of them was how butt ugly the thing was. Tire shredding splitters are for Mad Max movies, wings are for Sprints and braces are for teenagers.

Between the change in culture and the damage Nascar has done IDK what can be done or in what order things should be done to change fortunes.
 
IanMcVittie said:
That car looks like a stock car modified to go racing and it looks great.

Every time someone mentions how nice it would be for Nascar to use cars that looked like stock cars someone always gets upset. You here nebulous terms like “lifestyle fan” used to describe fans of stock looking cars. Of course that is followed by 4 paragraphs of how the old cars were nothing like stock cars.

All I know is the CoT caused a lot of people to leave Nascar and one of them was how butt ugly the thing was. Tire shredding splitters are for Mad Max movies, wings are for Sprints and braces are for teenagers.

Between the change in culture and the damage Nascar has done IDK what can be done or in what order things should be done to change fortunes.
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That doesn't happen nearly as much as the daily carp. What is it up to now, around 850 thousand?
 
When did they give us "more of that thing I fell in love with"? Pretty sure we still have chase-offs and scheduled yellows :p
 
StandOnIt said:
That doesn't happen nearly as much as the daily carp. What is it up to now, around 850 thousand?
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I agree it doesn’t. I can remember me and some others getting a long lecture by one or 2 others and essentially being insulted just because we liked the way David Pearson’s and Richard Petty’s cars used to look. It was strange as it was just an opinion and we were not saying the cars were stock just that they looked stock.

We were told we were Nascar lifestyle fans (whatever that means) and we needed to embrace the boxes of today. The whole argument put forth made no sense at all.!
 
IanMcVittie said:
I agree it doesn’t. I can remember me and some others getting a long lecture by one or 2 others and essentially being insulted just because we liked the way David Pearson’s and Richard Petty’s cars used to look. It was strange as it was just an opinion and we were not saying the cars were stock just that they looked stock.

We were told we were Nascar lifestyle fans (whatever that means) and we needed to embrace the boxes of today. The whole argument put forth made no sense at all.!
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probably worth at least 500 thou leaving I would guess
 
NASCAR: we’re building more triovals.
Me: those races sort of suck.
NASCAR: we’re turning ovals into triovals.
Me: wait, why the hell are you doing this?
NASCAR: we’re going to get rid of several races at the unique tracks and just overload the schedule with cookie cutters, until nearly 3 quarters of the calendar has a **** race.
Me: [sigh]
NASCAR: since we killed several drivers with our refusal to invest in impact absorbing walls, here’s an ugly cookie cutter eyesore car, to go along with our bland cookie cutter tracks, and all these new vanilla cookie cutter drivers.
Me: at least dale jr exists in this cookie cutter timeline.
NASCAR: Playoffs!
Me: at least junior still exists
NASCAR: one race shootout now makes all but the 500 meaningless.
Me: damn it, junior got injured, and now he is riding inches from the wall fearing another concussion, and now he quits. **** it, how are the twins doing this year, [sigh].
 
StandOnIt said:
probably worth at least 500 thou leaving I would guess
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IDK the reasons why nearly 800k per race that watched Nascar races in 2017 decided to turn their backs on the series in 2018. If I had to guess I would say those that left were longtime fans that got finally sick and tired of what they thought was uninspiring racing plus all the gimmicks. I would be surprised if Nascar ever takes that big a hit again.
 
DanicaFreak said:
NASCAR was built on ex-moonshiners who souped up their cars to run shine.

I for one, would welcome a return to NASCARs historic roots.

V8s, pushrods, even carbs.
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You and me both. I would love to see a retro based series with retro cars and drivers. I can dream!
 
IanMcVittie said:
IDK the reasons why nearly 800k per race that watched Nascar races in 2017 decided to turn their backs on the series in 2018. If I had to guess I would say those that left were longtime fans that got finally sick and tired of what they thought was uninspiring racing plus all the gimmicks. I would be surprised if Nascar ever takes that big a hit again.
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If NASCAR becomes small market again, I would not care a bit as long as it was still on TV. Sometimes I think NASCAR has got too frickin big
 
IanMcVittie said:
You and me both. I would love to see a retro based series with retro cars and drivers. I can dream!
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With todays safety stuffs tho. no need to have cars going down pit road at over 130 mph on pit road.....and pit road guys with no protection....
 
joe h said:
NASCAR: we’re building more triovals.
Me: those races sort of suck.
NASCAR: we’re turning ovals into triovals.
Me: wait, why the hell are you doing this?
NASCAR: we’re going to get rid of several races at the unique tracks and just overload the schedule with cookie cutters, until nearly 3 quarters of the calendar has a sh!t race.
Me: [sigh]
NASCAR: since we killed several drivers with our refusal to invest in impact absorbing walls, here’s an ugly cookie cutter eyesore car, to go along with our bland cookie cutter tracks, and all these new vanilla cookie cutter drivers.
Me: at least dale jr exists in this cookie cutter timeline.
NASCAR: Playoffs!
Me: at least junior still exists
NASCAR: one race shootout now makes all but the 500 meaningless.
Me: damn it, junior got injured, and now he is riding inches from the wall fearing another concussion, and now he quits. **** it, how are the twins doing this year, [sigh].
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By Jove I think you got it. At least give us back the old Atlanta and Richmond tracks and 2 races at Darlington.
 
DanicaFreak said:
If NASCAR becomes small market again, I would not care a bit as long as it was still on TV. Sometimes I think NASCAR has got too frickin big
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yep some of us look forward to that. They showed F-1 races last year commercial free with an audience of around a half a million in the U.S., one can dream. :D
 
StandOnIt said:
yep some of us look forward to that. They showed F-1 races last year commercial free with an audience of around a half a million in the U.S., one can dream. :D
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SOI....I REALLY REALLY Loved the days when NASCAR was small market, voiced by people like Ned Jarrett.....on channels like a fledgling ESPN and TNN. OMG Benny Parsons....I would literally tune in to see what he had to say.
 
NASCAR needs a Tim Richmond, or a new SR.

Even KDB is a jerk,but is a jerk in a cookie cutter way, not interesting.
 
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