Thoughts on Matt Kenseth's Fine

No matter what, the Appeals Board will face backlash. If they keep the penalty intact, they'll be accused of showing favoritism towards Chad and Jimmie. If not, it will certainly have the appearance that the small teams bear the brunt (Carl Long).
 
ted@economy said:
Would you think that TRD would shave down one rod and not the other 999?
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The several odd light rods you are reading about is the edited for public consumption version, how they want the official news release to read. The company I quoted above is not in the business of making mistakes. If you ask them to "shave" rods for you they will do it for a price. Why I do not know because when you get caught using them first thing you do is blame them for making a so-called "mistake" and their reputation gets run through the meat grinder of public opinion too.

Suppose NASCAR has seen these rods show up in post race inspection before, let's say Texas. It is not unusual with something like this for a NASCAR inspector to quietly admonish the team to not bring them back thus giving them the benefit of the doubt if you will, perhaps not all that far removed from judging "intent" we saw questioned here earlier. You come back with them again anyway and it gets serious in a hurry. NASCAR does not play games after you have been warned meaning in my thinking anyway the punishment fits the crime. IMO TRD may have been trying to see how far they could push NASCAR and it blew up in their face.
 
ted@economy said:
The head guy at TRD was on nascar radio. He says that TRD buys the rods from the top manufacturer in Europe.
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The one that really dropped the ball on this is the engine builder. If the rules have a minimum or maximum weight for a part then it is the builders responsibility to weigh that part before it is put into that engine. If they screwed that up then I would have to wonder what else they are not doing correctly. If I was the crew chief I would be taking a trip to California to see what their engine building procedures are. But my guess is that this is an isolated mistake and that the problem will be fixed and it won't happen again.
 
The penalties seem excessive for being 3 grams off weight-wise. I think NASCAR snorted about 3 grams before handing out these penalties.
 
ToyYoda said:
The penalties seem excessive for being 3 grams off weight-wise. I think NASCAR snorted about 3 grams before handing out these penalties.
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If it was against a Chevrolet you would be praising their integrity for a just penalty. :D
 
NASCAR did their job. If the Appeals Board defangs the penalties and I think they will, it will certainly be easy to say that the bigger teams can get away with more.
 
It would be crazy to monkey around with rods that close to the minimum weight requirement, put them all safely above the minimum and look for an advantage somewhere else. This was political somehow.
 
Rusty34 said:
The several odd light rods you are reading about is the edited for public consumption version, how they want the official news release to read. The company I quoted above is not in the business of making mistakes. If you ask them to "shave" rods for you they will do it for a price. Why I do not know because when you get caught using them first thing you do is blame them for making a so-called "mistake" and their reputation gets run through the meat grinder of public opinion too.

Suppose NASCAR has seen these rods show up in post race inspection before, let's say Texas. It is not unusual with something like this for a NASCAR inspector to quietly admonish the team to not bring them back thus giving them the benefit of the doubt if you will, perhaps not all that far removed from judging "intent" we saw questioned here earlier. You come back with them again anyway and it gets serious in a hurry. NASCAR does not play games after you have been warned meaning in my thinking anyway the punishment fits the crime. IMO TRD may have been trying to see how far they could push NASCAR and it blew up in their face.
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Where did you read "several light rods" ? I've only heard of one.
 
ToyYoda said:
The penalties seem excessive for being 3 grams off weight-wise. I think NASCAR snorted about 3 grams before handing out these penalties.
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If Toyota built a decent engine, we wouldn't be having this conversation. They might start building one now. They blow up more then the other manufacturers combined. That means their quality control is the problem and it is costing the Toyota teams big time. Your not hearing explosions from Hendrick, Roush/Yates, or Childress when you go to a race.
 
Rusty34 said:
It would be crazy to monkey around with rods below the minimum weight requirement, put them all safely above the minimum and look for an advantage somewhere else. This was political somehow.
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It is really something that I know absolutely nothing about . But ,IF there is some lack of quality control at TRD ,and I don't know that there is , then Kyle Busch's comments about TRD engines last year , may have had some merit.
 
ted@economy said:
Where did you read "several light rods" ? I've only heard of one.
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There is more to this story than the official news release version we read in on-line stories. Remember we are talking about something that could have a negative impact on many millions of dollars worth of business.
I was mainly referring to a comment in post #7 where harkin said he heard:
"On Nascar radio they said they tore down all the TRD engines for all teams overnight and two engines were out of spec and a third was so close it wasn't worth the risk."

​
 
ted@economy said:
It is really something that I know absolutely nothing about . But ,IF there is some lack of quality control at TRD ,and I don't know that there is , then Kyle Busch's comments about TRD engines last year , may have had some merit.
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what do you mean "if"..are you watching the races? They are blowing up like popcorn, Kyle blew two of them up last week in his truck. Two of them...he had to race with the third one..that is pitiful. Remember Kenseth blowing up? Hamlin and Bush starting in the back..compared to Penske last year that raced the season with two cars and didn't have one engine failure the whole season with two cars? wake up dude, they have a big quality control problem..I could go on an on..Hamlin blowing up while in the chase. The engine is fast when it stays together
 
StandOnIt said:
what do you mean "if"..are you watching the races? They are blowing up like popcorn, Kyle blew two of them up last week in his truck. Two of them...he had to race with the third one..that is pitiful. Remember Kenseth blowing up? Hamlin and Bush starting in the back..compared to Penske last year that raced the season with two cars and didn't have one engine failure the whole season with two cars? wake up dude, they have a big quality control problem..I could go on an on..Hamlin blowing up while in the chase. The engine is fast when it stays together
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So if it is a quality control problem and TRD doesn't want it's engines to blow up , then is it cheating ?
 
ted@economy said:
So if it is a quality control problem and TRD doesn't want it's engines to blow up , then is it cheating ?
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it is both and all of the problem..bad valve springs they said for some..had lower problems, bearings I think it was for others, now the latest, they can't get the weight right on their rods, which is a punishable violation, and they fell into the Jaws of Nascar with that one. That stuff happens sometimes to other teams, but it is every week with Toyota engines.
 
ted@economy said:
It is really something that I know absolutely nothing about . But ,IF there is some lack of quality control at TRD ,and I don't know that there is , then Kyle Busch's comments about TRD engines last year , may have had some merit.
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That is why I said in my other post that if I was a crew chief that I would want to go to the TRD shop and see how they operate. I would want to know if one person is in charge of building the whole engine or is it like and an assembly line where one person checks all the weights and measurements, and someone else builds the racks before the engine builder installs the cam, crank, and racks in the engine. But it also could just be as simple as someone having a bad day and just not having their mind on what they are doing and forgot to weigh one of the rods or wrote the wrong numbers down. .
 
when you are making a rod that is that close to minimum material condition and you are not weighing every one, you are an idiot and you need to pay bwaaaa. No telling how much those freaking rods cost, you could probably live real well for 6 months for what they cost.:)
 
Nitro Dude said:
That is why I said in my other post that if I was a crew chief that I would want to go to the TRD shop and see how they operate. I would want to know if one person is in charge of building the whole engine or is it like and an assembly line where one person checks all the weights and measurements, and someone else builds the racks before the engine builder installs the cam, crank, and racks in the engine. But it also could just be as simple as someone having a bad day and just not having their mind on what they are doing and forgot to weigh one of the rods or wrote the wrong numbers down. .
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They mighta built that particular motor on a Monday :D
 
Johali said:
If it was against a Chevrolet you would be praising their integrity for a just penalty. :D
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Is my bias really showing that much? :) Yes, it does sting a little more since it was against a Toyota, but this is excessive regardless of manufacturer. If it were against an HMS team, I'd think it was just as stupid.
 
w/ all tha expert engine buildin advice in this thread....maybe trd will soon be contactin a few of us fer advice ta correct tha dilemna .....or is it dilemma ...take ya pick ! ha!
 
NASCAR has never had a sense of humor when it come engines. I don't think the appeal is going to help either. I agree is sucks for JGR but they need to hold there vendors to a high standard. I'm sure TRD will end up paying all the fines for JGR but that wont help with the points or the suspensions.

I bet JGR is having second thoughts on shutting down there engine shop now.
 
hawg dawg said:
w/ all tha expert engine buildin advice in this thread....maybe trd will soon be contactin a few of us fer advice ta correct tha dilemna .....or is it dilemma ...take ya pick ! ha!
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Well, they don't need to contact me...I only do big and small block chevys, and blown nitro and alcohol hemi style engines. No toyota's.:D
 
Nitro Dude said:
Well, they don't need to contact me...I only do big and small block chevys, and blown nitro and alcohol hemi style engines. No toyota's.:D
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ha! bet ya ain't never had ta weigh ya rods in a post race tear down inspection either ! ha! or have ya ?

note--toyota may be gettin back in f1 next yr----under lexus brand. ??
sho gotta beat last decade results.
 
hawg dawg said:
ha! bet ya ain't never had ta weigh ya rods in a post race tear down inspection either ! ha! or have ya ?

note--toyota may be gettin back in f1 next yr----under lexus brand. ??
sho gotta beat last decade results.
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We have had to do a tear down but we don't have a weight rule on our rods. Hey, toyota is is on the pole for tomorrow night so this penalty hasn't slowed them down any.:)
 
Nitro Dude said:
We have had to do a tear down but we don't have a weight rule on our rods. Hey, toyota is is on the pole for tomorrow night so this penalty hasn't slowed them down any.:)
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that prolly makes 2 who understands a tear down. won't even get into blown hemi's ! ha!
 
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