Throwback Thursday

DRS3

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rd45usa

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Remember listening to many Indy 500's on radio in my younger years growing up in Indiana.
 

Greg

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Richard Petty will celebrate his 85th birthday on Saturday July 2nd
 

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Formerjackman

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I'm sure it wasn't cheap, but I think it was money well spent. I wonder if some of the younger fans fully realize what an underachieving lukewarm operation HMS was until Mr Gordon and Mr. Evernham walked in the door. Rick had a lot of the pieces in place, but it took Jeff and Ray to get that team to the next level, and 25 years later, I don't know if they get enough credit for what they did for HMS the COMPANY.
 

Greg

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I'm sure it wasn't cheap, but I think it was money well spent. I wonder if some of the younger fans fully realize what an underachieving lukewarm operation HMS was until Mr Gordon and Mr. Evernham walked in the door. Rick had a lot of the pieces in place, but it took Jeff and Ray to get that team to the next level, and 25 years later, I don't know if they get enough credit for what they did for HMS the COMPANY.
I believe a healthy Tim Richmond would have won titles for HMS if he had lived. 1986 was his first and only full season with the team. They where awful for the first 10 races before getting their act together for the World 600 in late May. They were a complete team and dominant for the remainder of the season in all disciplines winning superspeedway, RCs, and short tracks. With a healthy Richmond I think they would have dominated for years to come.

DW had some good seasons with the HMS but I do believe he was past his prime by 1987 and not the driving force that he was in the early 80s.

I agree Gordon and Evernham took HMS to another level as obviously proven by the record or stats. I just think the luke warm description discredits how good they already were when Gordon and Evernham arrived.
 

Formerjackman

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I believe a healthy Tim Richmond would have won titles for HMS if he had lived. 1986 was his first and only full season with the team. They where awful for the first 10 races before getting their act together for the World 600 in late May. They were a complete team and dominant for the remainder of the season in all disciplines winning superspeedway, RCs, and short tracks. With a healthy Richmond I think they would have dominated for years to come.

DW had some good seasons with the HMS but I do believe he was past his prime by 1987 and not the driving force that he was in the early 80s.

I agree Gordon and Evernham took HMS to another level as obviously proven by the record or stats. I just think the luke warm description discredits how good they already were when Gordon and Evernham arrived.
Yes, they had their moments, BUT, other than Rudd's 1991 run at the title, they never were a championship factor, and by the time the Dynamic Duo got there, they were barely winning any races either. After a 7 win campaign in 1989, they would only win 6 more races the next 4 years, and the next best point finish other the the one I mentioned, was 7th. For a team with the almost unlimited resources of HMS, that is SERIOUS underachieving in my book, and I say this as somebody who has been a fan of the team since they started. As for Tim Richmond, MAYBE. As I mentioned in another thread, I just do not like to get involved in this projection game of future success, and I am not prepared to base my whole opinion of Tim off basically one half of one season. Yes, Tim was an incredible raw talent, but despite the Harry Hyde tutelage, he was still pretty raw, and he seemed to prefer it that way. Could he have EVER been consistent enough to out-dual Dale Earnhardt on a regular basis? How would his go for broke driving style adapt to the radial tire? Would he and Darrell Waltrip have butted heads? Who knows whether there were any tricks (legal or not) that helped explain that incredible run that wouldn't carry over into the future. WAY too many unknowns there. I thought Tim was the neatest thing since sliced bread, Old Milwaukee became my go to cheap beer, and I proudly wore my #25 Folgers hat even though I hate coffee, but I have no idea whether 1986 was a trend or a flash in a pan. Everybody is ready to proclaim Kyle Larson the greatest driver who ever lived based on last year, but what about THIS year when theoretically everybody has equal equipment? Two wins, and he had to punk his teammate out of the way to get both of them. Rest his soul, but if I had a nickel for every time somebody told me Adam Petty was going to be a superstar, I could have paid off my house, and then I have to say, "based on what evidence?" One ASA and one ARCA win? How big of a star could he have ever been driving Petty equipment?
 

Greg

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Yes, they had their moments, BUT, other than Rudd's 1991 run at the title, they never were a championship factor, and by the time the Dynamic Duo got there, they were barely winning any races either. After a 7 win campaign in 1989, they would only win 6 more races the next 4 years, and the next best point finish other the the one I mentioned, was 7th. For a team with the almost unlimited resources of HMS, that is SERIOUS underachieving in my book, and I say this as somebody who has been a fan of the team since they started. As for Tim Richmond, MAYBE. As I mentioned in another thread, I just do not like to get involved in this projection game of future success, and I am not prepared to base my whole opinion of Tim off basically one half of one season. Yes, Tim was an incredible raw talent, but despite the Harry Hyde tutelage, he was still pretty raw, and he seemed to prefer it that way. Could he have EVER been consistent enough to out-dual Dale Earnhardt on a regular basis? How would his go for broke driving style adapt to the radial tire? Would he and Darrell Waltrip have butted heads? Who knows whether there were any tricks (legal or not) that helped explain that incredible run that wouldn't carry over into the future. WAY too many unknowns there. I thought Tim was the neatest thing since sliced bread, Old Milwaukee became my go to cheap beer, and I proudly wore my #25 Folgers hat even though I hate coffee, but I have no idea whether 1986 was a trend or a flash in a pan. Everybody is ready to proclaim Kyle Larson the greatest driver who ever lived based on last year, but what about THIS year when theoretically everybody has equal equipment? Two wins, and he had to punk his teammate out of the way to get both of them. Rest his soul, but if I had a nickel for every time somebody told me Adam Petty was going to be a superstar, I could have paid off my house, and then I have to say, "based on what evidence?" One ASA and one ARCA win? How big of a star could he have ever been driving Petty equipment?
You make a lot great points and I know we can agree to disagree with the greatest mutual respect. It is just a good conversation and something that neither can absolutely prove, but still a good discussion imo.

But I do believe the racing world believed that HMS was the best bet and place to be in Nascar entering 1987 season.
I think that is why DW left Junior Johnson to join HMS in 1987.
Stock Car Racing did a dream team magazine cover with DW and the Tide car and it at least felt like they would do some incredible stuff in the next few seasons.

DW the self proclaimed Mr October (referring to his ability to close out championship seasons) did command a lot respect for backing up his talk.
He definitely was one of the hottest drivers or considered to be one of the elites at that moment and I am convinced that he believed HMS was the best option to win more championships.

They turned out to be a dissapointment in 87 and the chemistry or whatever didnt work to well, which supports your case.
 

Formerjackman

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You make a lot great points and I know we can agree to disagree with the greatest mutual respect. It is just a good conversation and something that neither can absolutely prove, but still a good discussion imo.

But I do believe the racing world believed that HMS was the best bet and place to be in Nascar entering 1987 season.
I think that is why DW left Junior Johnson to join HMS in 1987.
Stock Car Racing did a dream team magazine cover with DW and the Tide car and it at least felt like they would do some incredible stuff in the next few seasons.

DW the self proclaimed Mr October (referring to his ability to close out championship seasons) did command a lot respect for backing up his talk.
He definitely was one of the hottest drivers or considered to be one of the elites at that moment and I am convinced that he believed HMS was the best option to win more championships.

They turned out to be a dissapointment in 87 and the chemistry or whatever didnt work to well, which supports your case.

I agree 100% that in the late 80's the potential was there, but then they kind of regressed. I do think that by 1987, Darrell was not the driver he had been earlier in his career, although I think he was plenty capable of winning races and competing for a championship. At least to hear Darrell tell it, he didn't REALLY want to leave Jr. Johnson, BUT, the teams performance had fallen off some, Jr. seemed somewhat distracted, he didn't want to boost Darrell's salary, and Darrell was being pressured by his church friends to move away from the Budweiser sponsorship. Darrell and Rick already had a relationship, and Rick steps up with a lucrative contract offer and a family friendly sponsor. Supposedly when Darrell told Jr. what Rick wanted to pay him, Jr. told him he better just hit the road and then told the crew Darrell was leaving. Someone (maybe Tim Brewer, who has been publicly VERY CRITICAL of Jr. since his death) has even suggested that Jr. kind of help sabotage any chance Darrell had of catching Earnhardt late in the 1986 title run. I do agree with you that Darrell doesn't make THAT move unless he thought they could win a championship.
 

gone

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Not a famous car, nor associated with anybody who became famous, but this represents the grassroots. It's a typical local track hero car, from the "Super Street" class. It's one I worked on years ago, although maybe not so many years ago as one might assume...

The other side was not as "pretty", and yes we worked on it out in the yard. The wheels and tires were the best parts on the whole car - yeah, we knew where most of the performance came from. It was usually in the hunt, and did win a few times on dirt tracks.

My "shout out" to all the under-budgeted racers out there. They feed the upper levels.
 

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