Tired of seeing the same 3 cars capable of winning on speed.

[hidesert cowboy]

the cars flat out suck, its not a driver issue. When these cars are having trouble outrunning the front row cars something is way way and I mean way wrong. I looked at the practice sheets before the race and thought holy crap the HMS cars are awful. they are running with front row and BK cars in the upper 20's in practice. I find it some what surprising they even finished as well as they did considering the practice speeds were that slow, they did get the cars better through the weekend it looks like. If you are seeing a difference between practice and the race keep in mind there is a difference between speed with the cars running all by themselves and speed with the car in the race. it could point to an aero issue another thing I see is a lot of times the HMS cars seem to all run the same speed at practice and often times in the race they are clustered together in finishing order. That tells me the cars are only capable of that much speed and the drivers got what they could from the cars and it was pretty equal. that shows its not a driver issue. That gotta do something major. .

 

[hidesert cowboy]

the title says it all I am sick of seeing only 3 cars capable of winning the race because they were the fastest cars there. The sport talks about parity but right now we don't have it. YES other cars can and have won but its either been a plate race or luck that determined the outcome. We simply are not seeing anyone else that is capable of being as fast on any given normal track.

 

[StandOnIt]

I wonder how many of these threads there will be. waaaa

 

[aunty dive]

HMS fan frustration.

Understandable. Their performance is pathetic.

 

[BobbyFord]

Wimbledon is over, so that’s no longer an option.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

There's over half the IndyCar race left.

 

[BobbyFord]

There's over half the IndyCar race left.

Open wheel makes me sleepy.

 

[jws926]

The teams that are not winning need to step and figure out what they are doing that is stopping them from winning, the best of the best are winning, as it should be.

 

[ChexOrWrex]

Work harder, find the formula.

 

[Jorge De Guzman]

No problem with it. It’s racing and life. Work harder, spend more money find a way. Life and racing isn’t a participation trophy

 

[4tires17gals]

The Drivers matter too as all 3 are Nationwide champs

 

[ReturnTrip]

Don't worry about it. NASCAR won't be around in five years.

 

[HoneyBadger]

The Drivers matter too as all 3 are Nationwide champs

All three are Cup champions. In fact these are the three most recent champions not named Jimmie.

 

[Mispeedway15]

What’s interesting is they all are for different teams. It’s amazing what 18, 4 and 78 are doing with their own cars compared to the rest of their teammates. Bowyer won Martinsville, a shortened Michigan and Jones wins at a restrictor demo derby

 

[28car]

I guess back in the day when a driver won 10 races it was all over.....NOT
Ask Rusty Wallace

Or a driver not winning a race the entire season AND still had a shot at a championship going into final race
Ask Ryan Newman

In November we could be saying
How many championships can that Jones boy win
how did Jimmie pull out an 8th championship

 

[Team Penske]

only 4 cars capable

 

[sdj]

What’s interesting is they all are for different teams. It’s amazing what 18, 4 and 78 are doing with their own cars compared to the rest of their teammates. Bowyer won Martinsville, a shortened Michigan and Jones wins at a restrictor demo derby

Dare I inject this, why is Kyle Larson, in a Chevy, sooo good with his, has the potential to win any race he is in, but, the rest of the Chevy's are mostly backburners?

I say it is pure talent at the wheel. JMHO.

 

[OldTimer]

Dare I inject this, why is Kyle Larson, in a Chevy, sooo good with his, has the potential to win any race he is in, but, the rest of the Chevy's are mostly backburners?

I say it is pure talent at the wheel. JMHO.

Well...just my opinion, but...believe it is 80% car...the driver is 80% of the remaining 20%, and strategy is 80% of the remaining 4%...the rest is luck.

The best driver can make up a small portion of the car...but not consistently. Larson is a rare talent in that he finds away to make the car work, even if it is not at 100% of the 80% allocated to the car. Note the difference between him and McMurray.

 

[Jorge De Guzman]

Well...just my opinion, but...believe it is 80% car...the driver is 80% of the remaining 20%, and strategy is 80% of the remaining 4%...the rest is luck.

The best driver can make up a small portion of the car...but not consistently. Larson is a rare talent in that he finds away to make the car work, even if it is not at 100% of the 80% allocated to the car. Note the difference between him and McMurray.

Poor Jamie Mac is getting so outperformed this year by his own teammate. Stop the fight already!

 

[MRM]

Good thing some of these people didn't watch the sport in the mid 90's when it was Earnhardt, Wallace, and Gordon winning most of the races.

 

[2 Sweet]

Good thing some of these people didn't watch the sport in the mid 90's when it was Earnhardt, Wallace, and Gordon winning most of the races.

This is absolutely nothing like the mid 90's.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Aren't we already having this discussion over here? https://racing-forums.com/threads/is-hendrick-motorsports-no-longer-a-super-team.64511/

 

[Efisher131]

What year did the driver adjustable track bars get implemented? I think that is another thing that has hurt the racing. You no longer have as many cars fading as a run goes and certain guys being good at points in a run because the driver can adjust his car while racing. So about 5 laps after a restart, you're at where you're at.

 

[StandOnIt]

What year did the driver adjustable track bars get implemented? I think that is another thing that has hurt the racing. You no longer have as many cars fading as a run goes and certain guys being good at points in a run because the driver can adjust his car while racing. So about 5 laps after a restart, you're at where you're at.

yeah we are going to need a tired about the track bar thread. It's responsible for the attendance decline ya know

 

[Charlie Spencer]

yeah we are going to need a tired about the track bar thread. It's responsible for the attendance decline ya know

In-car track bar adjustments favor right-handed drivers. Like shift handles, it's another case of NASCAR discriminating against left-handed people. Sponsor boycotts would stop these socially irresponsible practices.

 

[Zerkfitting]

I'd say three guys learned how to adjust the track bar. I recall a crew chief saying it was a bad idea to let the driver adjust the car because they would only make it worse (he suggested giving the driver a knob that wasn't connected to anything)..

 

[Revman]

Three cars dominating is fascinating IMO. The Hall of Fame is filled with drivers, owners, etc. who beat parity. The rules are so tight, and I think this is the amazing part of this sport that a few guys can get it right and dominate. For the HMS fans.....This sucks for you, but what is so damn fun about this sport is being able to watch how they respond. This will turn around, and when it does, the victories that were once perhaps taken for granted will once again be appreciated. Trust me on this...I have been a Toyota fan forever in general, and when they came to NASCAR WE were struggling to make races. That struggle--no, agony--is what makes the current success so damn sweet. Chevy/HMS had 13 years of domination....hit reset, stay with your team/manufacturer, and watch the recovery.

 

[Biggreen695]

Dare I inject this, why is Kyle Larson, in a Chevy, sooo good with his, has the potential to win any race he is in, but, the rest of the Chevy's are mostly backburners?

I say it is pure talent at the wheel. JMHO.

I honestly believe Kyle is just that damn good, even with ****** cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Whiskyb]

I'm happier that three are dominating instead of just 1

 

[Fordracing7]

I'm happier that three are dominating instead of just 1

Good way to put it

 

[gnomesayin]

Can someone cite another form of racing or sport in which such an unrealistic expectation of 'parity' persists? I'm not aware of one. It gets talked about elsewhere, but never is the underlying expectation that more than a few individuals and teams will be executing at the highest level at any given time.

If you want more random results to be orchestrated, then admit that. Don't pretend you actually want 20 drivers and teams to be 'equal' in ability and performance, because they are not. That never happens.

The only way in which NASCAR is partially responsible for this unreasonable desire is its embrace of plate racing. Yes, a sizable portion of people who watch those races wish the other races were more like them. That's a problem for others who would rather see the best in the world excel and be rewarded for it.

 

[2 Sweet]

Can someone cite another form of racing or sport in which such an unrealistic expectation of 'parity' persists? I'm not aware of one. It gets talked about elsewhere, but never is the underlying expectation that more than a few individuals and teams will be executing at the highest level at any given time.

If you want more random results to be orchestrated, then admit that. Don't pretend you actually want 20 drivers and teams to be 'equal' in ability and performance, because they are not. That never happens.

The only way in which NASCAR is partially responsible for this unreasonable desire is its embrace of plate racing. Yes, a sizable portion of people who watch those races wish the other races were more like them. That's a problem for others who would rather see the best in the world excel and be rewarded for it.

Well said.

I've talked about my views on parity at length on this forum, so I'll save everyone from hearing the same spiel yet again. I just want the "possibility" of parity to exist like it once did. One of the reasons I like the four plate races is the parity factor. Cup races have become too predictable; you generally know how each team will perform before they even unload off the truck.

 

[Privateer]

Well said.

I've talked about my views on parity at length on this forum, so I'll save everyone from hearing the same spiel yet again. I just want the "possibility" of parity to exist like it once did. One of the reasons I like the four plate races is the parity factor. Cup races have become too predictable; you generally know how each team will perform before they even unload off the truck.

You can have the same kind of parity on restrictor plate tracks at Kentucky. All you have to do is have lap cars turn into one of Truex/Harvick/Busch when they come to lap them and put them in the wall.

I think field quality is down - teams and drivers. There's not much NASCAR can do to hide that.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Cup races have become too predictable; you generally know how each team will perform before they even unload off the truck.

Maybe once a season gets started, but certainly not year to year. Tell me three years ago that Furniture Row was going to be a dominant team, Hendrick would be struggling to compete with Childress and Roush, and SHR would be king of the hill.

 

[2 Sweet]

Maybe once a season gets started, but certainly not year to year. Tell me three years ago that Furniture Row was going to be a dominant team, Hendrick would be struggling to compete with Childress and Roush, and SHR would be king of the hill.

My statement was vague.

I would say that there's a 99.9% chance Ty Dillon won't qualify or finish anywhere near the top 5 this weekend.

20 years ago, you couldn't say that about anyone. Just substitute Ty Dillon for Steve Grissom or whoever the 1998 equivalent would be.

 

[LJ7201]

I think the rules are too tight, but I am enjoying this season a lot. I'm excited to see these 3 perform in the playoffs.

 

[gnomesayin]

Well said.

I've talked about my views on parity at length on this forum, so I'll save everyone from hearing the same spiel yet again. I just want the "possibility" of parity to exist like it once did. One of the reasons I like the four plate races is the parity factor. Cup races have become too predictable; you generally know how each team will perform before they even unload off the truck.

I get concerned about lack of parity on a structural level. That is say when a 'league' is structured so that an entrenched dominant team or player is favored in every way continually. Think of the incredible financial gaps among teams in F1, or historically the Yankees in baseball for instance. I don't tend to like this, and I think sanctioning groups should seek to encourage parity on a financial and resource level, so that more teams have the opportunity to excel.

If anything like this were the state of NASCAR, I highly doubt that FRR would be a dominant team, or that the sport's most prosperous and valuable team, HMS, would be struggling so badly. Instead both are performing relative to how well they are executing at this time.

My objection to complaints about parity in this context is that the 'fix' to the 'problem' is to make skill matter less. I don't necessarily dispute that the field is a bit top heavy and not as deep now as it was 10-12 years ago. These are cyclical changes and trends. I'm not interested in putting a band-aid quick fix on it.

 

[StandOnIt]

Can someone cite another form of racing or sport in which such an unrealistic expectation of 'parity' persists? I'm not aware of one. It gets talked about elsewhere, but never is the underlying expectation that more than a few individuals and teams will be executing at the highest level at any given time.

If you want more random results to be orchestrated, then admit that. Don't pretend you actually want 20 drivers and teams to be 'equal' in ability and performance, because they are not. That never happens.

The only way in which NASCAR is partially responsible for this unreasonable desire is its embrace of plate racing. Yes, a sizable portion of people who watch those races wish the other races were more like them. That's a problem for others who would rather see the best in the world excel and be rewarded for it.

this is nuts, as it stands right now, all three series are running a tapered spacer. But to the uninitiated, most of them don't know what it is or what is does. Instead of jabbing the peanut gallery with the P word which is a simpleton's way of looking at a small part of the whole package that Nascar was experimenting with, people should pay more attention to gear ratios, the tapered spacers and even the tranny ratios for the individual tracks. All of these are used to limit speed also. And make a note that there was not a person sitting in the audience coming down to the finish at Charlotte.

 

[gnomesayin]

Not nuts at all, nope. Rings quite true to me, but of course I would think so.

 

[LewTheShoe]

If you want more random results to be orchestrated, then admit that. Don't pretend you actually want 20 drivers and teams to be 'equal' in ability and performance, because they are not. That never happens.

My objection to complaints about parity in this context is that the 'fix' to the 'problem' is to make skill matter less.

Props to @gnomesayin for these two posts, which have boiled the issue down to its very essence. He speaks the truth.

Sadly, Mr. Gnome, I don't think there are enough guys like you and me to sustain Nascar. I am dispirited by the reactions here and elsewhere in social media to Saturday's race. Whether it is restrictor plates or something else, I suspect a randomizing agent to appear by 2019.