What Do you Think of the New Package?

Speedbowl14 said:
So how do the rest of the teams catch up? They can't. I'm expecting the Penske/Gibbs show this year at the big tracks.
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They will have to invest in the one area that will help. Just like Chip Ganassi Racing did. D-O-W-N-F-O-R-C-E.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Yep...here's the problem...no such thing as braking anymore for the turns so no reason to invest in that. Can't make up time on pit road with common guns. The penalties for being caught cheating and pushing the "grey area" are absurd (and loved by the fans for some reason?) so you can't risk a penalty.

So how do the rest of the teams catch up? They can't. I'm expecting the Penske/Gibbs show this year at the big tracks.
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Be better engineers lol idk what to tell you I'm a process engineer not a mechanical one
 
Speedbowl14 said:
So how do the rest of the teams catch up? They can't. I'm expecting the Penske/Gibbs show this year at the big tracks.
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The same way those teams got ahead. They must have something the others don't, so it can be done.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Just a reminder this package is already the basis for the next gen car (not gonna find the url/article). They ain't changing nothing.

What a clusterf. Good thing we have Martinsville this week. The mid-summer stretch this year will be b-r-u-t-a-l if the racing is similar to what today produced.
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NASCAR seems pretty convinced that the only way they can get a new OEM to join - which may or may not be a pipe dream anyways - is by reducing the power output of the engine. Ok, fine, but the absurd amount of downforce and drag is totally unnecessary. Trying to turn the race into a drafting/slingshotting affair has flopped and honestly wasn't well-intentioned to begin. And the requisite amount of skill has declined, dirty air has increased, tire wear has decreased. If Gen-7 is going to be based upon lower-HP engines the current aero concepts HAVE to be dropped or an entire car generation is going to be brutal. They're not going to be able to tweak with the HP levels as they can now because the current engines have a much higher maximum power potential.
 
Just watched the 10 minute highlight video from the race after not being able to watch it. Racing looked pretty strung out, aero-dependent. Looked like the worst race of the year so far.

I don't think a wore out Fontana should be producing mediocre racing like that.
 
FLRacingFan said:
This just isn't it.
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For sure, this isn't it. I never would have expected a bad race at Fontana, short of a re-pave. To me, this race was incrementally worse than the previous 2019 races... they all have been lacking as a test of driver skills. We have retained some degree of head-to-head competition, but it's done from a platform of dumbed down driving skills that dampen my interest.

As noted above, the Gen 7 car is probably getting locked in, which will institutionalize this racing philosophy for a number of years.
 
This package should be thrown away and the garbage can that houses it should be put in another garbage can and THAT garbage can should be set ablaze. ****** destroyed the racing at Fontana.
 
Towmater said:
They will have to invest in the one area that will help. Just like Chip Ganassi Racing did. D-O-W-N-F-O-R-C-E.
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Actually they are only improving the #1 car IMO. Larson is worse off than last year.
They have an advantage in that they are doing what ever is needed to give Kurt what he wants and he is one of the best at helping with making changes and giving them accurate information.
HMS have 3 out of 4 rookies who have no idea what a cup car should feel like. They might be better off just working with JJ and let the rest follow. Of course this may be only true at some tracks.
 
I keep saying it, everyone that has left chip's cars has been worse where ever they have gone, maybe chip's cars are way better than people think they are. That could be why we are seeing kurt do so well. I also feel that each of these large teams have one or 2 drivers that are the most successful. I think what happens is those teams cater the R&D and resources to those drivers. Look at gibbs, kyle is pretty much the only one contending week to week there. Same with SHR, harvick is way faster. I don't think teams purposely only send the good stuff to those drivers, I just think R&D wise their driving style is catered too. the team that manages this the best IMO is penske. all their cars seem to run pretty equal.
 
Kurt compared to McMurray at this point in the year is doing excellent. Larson is a bit ahead in points and way ahead in laps led to Kurt, but they are the top GM team at 8th and 9th.
 
Kiante said:
The aero ducts... Are they truly necessary for the package to succeed?
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There isn't a single element of the package that is necessary or advisable. If the HP reduction is a business necessary evil to attract more OEM participation, then aero downforce should have been further reduced along with sideforce to account for for the lack of power.

As it is, anything they undo from the package will be a positive.
 
They have had pretty good results so far, they probably should have thrown a bogus caution at Auto Club towards the end of the race like they have for years to at least make the finish decent. Texas coming up will be another opportunity for a good test of the package. The race last week was marginally better that watching the Truex/Pearn show from a year ago with the diva taking all of the stages and winning with almost a 12 second lead and he could have probably made it much worse than it was. But yeah more help is needed at AutoClub, dynamite?
 
gnomesayin said:
There isn't a single element of the package that is necessary or advisable. If the HP reduction is a business necessary evil to attract more OEM participation, then aero downforce should have been further reduced along with sideforce to account for for the lack of power.

As it is, anything they undo from the package will be a positive.
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I think they will remove a lot of downforce. The whole idea seemed to think that drafting would occur everywhere so the cars needed to be more stable to prevent a wreckfest.

Since pack racing hasn’t occurred like many feared the need for stability has decreased therefore I expect massive downforce reductions going forward.

Yet as I said earlier the racing has not been terrible this season. The biggest thing right now is Gibbs and Penske are absolutely killing the field to start
 
Mispeedway15 said:
I think they will remove a lot of downforce. The whole idea seemed to think that drafting would occur everywhere so the cars needed to be more stable to prevent a wreckfest.

Since pack racing hasn’t occurred like many feared the need for stability has decreased therefore I expect massive downforce reductions going forward.

Yet as I said earlier the racing has not been terrible this season. The biggest thing right now is Gibbs and Penske are absolutely killing the field to start
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I have heard they are going to let the packages run this year without changes but I can't remember if it was a talking head or sombody in the know. Looking at the statistics for AutoClub I believe somebody in the booth said before the first stage that they have already set a record for passes. The doomsayers have completely forgotten their pre season "pack racing" cry already and are on to who knows what else in their hysteria of the week. After absolutely breathtaking restarts with this package, it seems the 1.5's so far have produced the best side by side racing, Phoenix (short) and AutoClub (large) haven't changed much, both turned out to be one laners after the tires went south. The one to watch with the package coming up will be Texas. It was a horrible race last year and the year before with the package they were using. Shouldn't take much to improve on that I wouldn't think. The 1.5's are the ones that need the most help and are the meat of the series.
 
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IDK how many fans use the number of passes a race produces as a litmus test for what constitutes good racing but it sure didn’t help yesterday’s snooze fest.

IDK how many people are enamored with the restarts but to me it looks like slot cars. Everyone has max adhesion and run around 3-4 wide for a short time before separating themselves.

IMO the people that like to see driver skill on display in a speed contest won’t like the current rules. However if you like more of a show and cars running a little closer together then 2019 is the ticket. Different strokes.
 
If they insist on keeping this aero package can we at least limit it to the 1.5 tracks? Those races are normally boring anyway, and having this high downforce package makes them slightly less boring on restarts.

Then, on the rest of the tracks, let's take the rear spoiler down to 1 inch.
Does every track need to use the same aero package?
 
I'll be honest, I'm kind of conflicted since Fontana was a snooze fest. I mean, the majority of the action took place on the restarts and then the field got strung out. I thought the package produced great racing at Vegas and at ISM, so maybe the 2 mile tracks package need some tweaking?
 
IMHO NASCAR has jumped the shark.I have been a fan since the 60s and am at the point where I really don’t care anymore. I agree with others on here that it seems the powers to be are just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Let’s try this no let’s try that. Do they even test this crap out before they make the change?The COT,the stages the tapered spacer,giant spoiler front ducts my gosh does it ever end?What the heck has happened to this series we all knew and loved?
No direction at all just flailing and flopping around. Then you have all the talking heads defending everything that goes on because toeing the company line is more important than the truth.
 
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rd45usa said:
Interesting read here about speed vs passing.
http://buildingspeed.org/blog/2019/02/08/nascar-cars-slower-2019/
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there was one who was in a panic about the races lasting longer with these slow crawling speeds, The race was a whole 5 minutes longer and average speed was 4 MPH slower. :D Some are convinced they can tell the difference in speed. I would suggest a career in radar gun testing. The fast line was right up against the wall and the amount of busted rear quarter panels doing so pretty much proved the hysteria of too much downforce easy to drive is a farce. A person would think that they should have been able to run all over the track for a fast line but that didn't prove to be so. They couldn't pass..1st single file track this year. Have the teams figured out how to screw it up, or was it the track?
 
rd45usa said:
Interesting read here about speed vs passing.
http://buildingspeed.org/blog/2019/02/08/nascar-cars-slower-2019/
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Interesting read. Unfortunately, his conclusions are incorrect, or he just ignores the amount of downforce is lost when the trailing car approaches the lead car.
More downforce isn't the answer, but less downforce is better for passing because the aerodynamic grip "curve" is flatter at lower speeds, while mechanical grip is constant.
This means that at high speeds with high downforce cars, a trailing car needs more aerodynamic grip to pass, but the lead car is "stealing" the clean air and thus making it more difficult to pass. At lower speeds, and lower downforce, the trailing car needs less aerodynamic grip to pass, thus making passing easier for the trailing car. i.e.less clean air for the lead car to "steal".
 
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SpeedPagan said:
I don't think the Penske and Gibbs drivers would be complaining too much.
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The best teams will always be the best teams. Would drivers like Kyle and Brad rather race a car with more power that requires a higher degree of driver skill or the current car under the current rules? I can’t answer that but when Clint Bowyer jokes around about not being able to tell if his car is down a cylinder I think it offers insight.
 
StandOnIt said:
I have heard they are going to let the packages run this year without changes but I can't remember if it was a talking head or sombody in the know. Looking at the statistics for AutoClub I believe somebody in the booth said before the first stage that they have already set a record for passes. The doomsayers have completely forgotten their pre season "pack racing" cry already and are on to who knows what else in their hysteria of the week. After absolutely breathtaking restarts with this package, it seems the 1.5's so far have produced the best side by side racing, Phoenix (short) and AutoClub (large) haven't changed much, both turned out to be one laners after the tires went south. The one to watch with the package coming up will be Texas. It was a horrible race last year and the year before with the package they were using. Shouldn't take much to improve on that I wouldn't think. The 1.5's are the ones that need the most help and are the meat of the series.
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The repave and reconfiguration has more to do with Texas the past two years than the package.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Since pack racing hasn’t occurred like many feared the need for stability has decreased therefore I expect massive downforce reductions going forward.
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You're right, it definitely hasn't produced pack racing. There is a contingent of fans who wanted pack racing on intermediates and are disappointed. There is my group that enjoyed the challenge of low downforce racing as it was in 2017 and 2018 and didn't want to see the competition dumbed down to serve short attention spans.

With regard to California, they've landed in a familiar place where they desperately tried to do this and that to please everyone, and instead landed in a no man's land middle ground where almost nobody walked away happy, except for Kyle Busch fans.

From my perspective, the package was terribly misguided from the outset. I wouldn't have judged yesterday's race to be any better if it had 'worked' as likely intended and produced a wild pack race show.
 
StandOnIt said:
Some are convinced they can tell the difference in speed. I would suggest a career in radar gun testing.
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Anyone who can't tell a visual difference in speed with this new package is fooling themselves. It's like night and day from last year's 1.5 milers.

After the first few laps yesterday, my wife asked me why all the cars looked so much slower than in the past. She had no idea there had been any changes to the rules.

For the first time in years, I actually fell asleep during a Cup race. That package turned California into the most boring race in recent memory. If that's what NASCAR was shooting for, they better go back to the drawing board.
 
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