What Do you Think of the New Package?

StandOnIt said:
eh, well, I remember not too far back, you didn't have any problem stating your opinion about how bad this horrific package was going to be before they turned a wheel. If that is on the fence, it's a new one on me. And I was the dark Hun for even trying to explain the packages for the different sized tracks. Now is not the time to get all self righteous and blast both sides now. I said many times that I was for the playoffs when they first came out, but after seeing how they worked I changed my mind. I would do the same thing here if I didn't like the racing it produced. But so far at the first 1.5 track it has been tried on, I thought it was pretty good and I can see it's potential especially if a late race caution happens. I am not surprised that almost the same top 10 that finishes every race were in the top 10 at this race.
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Fair enough..... but after watching last night's race I also posted this in this same forum. " I’m adjusting to the new package, weird to me they don’t lift. The restarts have way more WHOA moments, and I like how the cars break apart after a few laps in the pack. Tire wear still matters still have to get educated about the handling it does seem clean air plays a role for those drivers stuck more in the back. Seems to be it still pays off to be in the front, I was wrong about these tracks being mini Daytona’s or Talladega. I’m going to wait some more races to decide how I feel about this package."
 
StandOnIt said:
... top four within 2.5 seconds of each other at the finish. ...
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Maybe some at the top wanted 5th place to be closer than 8 seconds behind those front four; that's just random speculation on my part. Looking at the deltas toward the end, at least three cars had some close racing going for 8th or 9th, within a half-sec of each other.

But yeah, those top 4 were pretty close at the end, considering how long that green run lasted.
 
Aweful.

Very disappointed. I hardly watched the race, and I was home.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
I will be interested to see how things play out over the next several races but I can’t help but think Nascar would like a little more sizzle. I’m not saying this for the seasoned fan but more for casuals or as an inducement to attract new fans.

IMO Nascar would like to see more of the Talladega/Daytona style racing with cars running nose to tail in either one big pack or separate smaller ones. IDK if they will be able to accomplish it or not.
 
LouieLouie said:
LOL, Don't think it can happen in a race with a restrictor plate at a track that isn't named Daytona or Talladega? Better check again!

https://www.racing-reference.info/race/2000_Dura_Lube_300_Sponsored_by_Kmart/W
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I didn't follow the link but that must be Jeff Burton at New Hampshire

I know about that.. I'm not laughing at you thinking it's possible (almost 20 years since its happened though).. I'm laughing that you think Harvick had the best car yesterday.

..and I definitely dont think it would happen at Daytona or Dega.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I didn't follow the link but that must be Jeff Burton at New Hampshire

I know about that.. I'm not laughing at you thinking it's possible (almost 20 years since its happened though).. I'm laughing that you think Harvick had the best car yesterday.

..and I definitely dont think it would happen at Daytona or Dega.
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Harvick did not have the best car yesterday. I'd say it was the 2,18, your guy and then Harvick. Your post made me lmao though, Harvick wasnt the best one at all.
 
They lost the handle, Harvick said they couldn't get the tight out of it. Nobody knew how the cars would do over a race. Considering, they put on a pretty good race for the first time out I thought.
 
Snappy D said:
Harvick did not have the best car yesterday. I'd say it was the 2,18, your guy and then Harvick. Your post made me lmao though, Harvick wasnt the best one at all.
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I'd have to put the 18 behind the 22 there.. not early but he had plenty of time to get up there and I wont accept that "cant pass people" crap he was spewing.. Joey and Brad could pass people fine all day because they had the best cars. Kyle was fast but he has to be able to pass people up front to be considered up there with the Penske guys. They were fast all day and could.pass cars when they caught them. I think that is the deciding factor
 
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I will say idk why people care so much about throttle control. I get it but when you go to a sprint car race at Eldora those dudes are wide open essentially the entire time, it’s just about handling and the drivers ability to get up on the wheel.

That’s what this package reminds me of, you’ve gotta be able to wheel it but not necessarily control it with your feet as much. Just think a little downforce needs to be removed but this was an improvement for longer tracks that can be very dull at times

But make no mistake, last season while fun was very very much in the engineers and crew chiefs hands. Whoever could get that little gain was going to be nearly unbeatable
 
Mispeedway15 said:
I will say idk why people care so much about throttle control. I get it but when you go to a sprint car race at Eldora those dudes are wide open essentially the entire time, it’s just about handling and the drivers ability to get up on the wheel.
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You've said this multiple times. Why do you believe this?

No, they absolutely are not. Not even close to wide open. When the track dries and slicks off, there are times when they are almost never at full throttle.

Sprint car racing is all about throttle control.
 
The thing I never hear from the haters is a viable alternative to what we got, only more whining. If you have a magic solution to make the 1.5ers race like the "good ol' days", whatever that means, I'm sure NASCAR is all ears. But realize that at the very least NASCAR has constantly been trying nearly everything over the last 5 years to find that package that will please everyone.

To recap everything that's been thrown at the wall:
High HP / high downforce / high drag = 2014 rules package
High HP / Low downforce / low drag = 2016-18 rules
High HP / Low Downforce / high drag = 2015 Indy and Michigan experiment
Low HP / high downforce / high drag = 2019 rules
Low HP/ low downforce / low drag = 2015-18 superspeedway package

So tell me, what's the winning combination here?
 
Acs said:
The thing I never hear from the haters is a viable alternative to what we got, only more whining. If you have a magic solution to make the 1.5ers race like the "good ol' days", whatever that means, I'm sure NASCAR is all ears. But realize that at the very least NASCAR has constantly been trying nearly everything over the last 5 years to find that package that will please everyone.

To recap everything that's been thrown at the wall:
High HP / high downforce / high drag = 2014 rules package
High HP / Low downforce / low drag = 2016-18 rules
High HP / Low Downforce / high drag = 2015 Indy and Michigan experiment
Low HP / high downforce / high drag = 2019 rules
Low HP/ low downforce / low drag = 2015-18 superspeedway package

So tell me, what's the winning combination here?
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I'm actually VERY curious about that as well.

Personally I have never had a problem with the racing that I can attribute to the way the cars are governed. Sure there have been some boring races and nobody likes seeing someone beat their driver by 10 seconds but that stuff happens.

..but as I've only really followed NASCAR for the past decade I never saw what the racing was like back then that makes people hate the racing so much now.

I've seen plenty of exciting races. It must have been crazy 3 wide every turn, lead changing every other lap, grit your teeth and floor it last man standing wins the race type of sh!t for so many of you guys to have such an issue with todays racing and actually be able to justify that to yourselves.

It had to have been like that every week or there's no way people would carry on like they do now.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
No. What we have here are race car drivers that cant drive the race car. Wide open throttle and hope your team has built the best handling car. Their frustrations are warranted.
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Why can't they drive the car?? Some on here are saying with no HP and the car glued to the track while riding on tires that don't out wear, anyone can drive them.
I might remind you that folks here are never wrong.
 
gnomesayin said:
You've said this multiple times. Why do you believe this?

No, they absolutely are not. Not even close to wide open. When the track dries and slicks off, there are times when they are almost never at full throttle.

Sprint car racing is all about throttle control.
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There's a reason dirt drivers are regarded as having the best throttle and car control. Because it's all about throttle and car control.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
.but as I've only really followed NASCAR for the past decade I never saw what the racing was like back then that makes people hate the racing so much now.
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The racing now has stages, more passing and the cars are grouped closer together. That brings a little excitement and really ruins some great power naps.
Back in the day when everything was so great, you would have maybe 3 cars on the lead lap and 20 cars loaded to go home because of mechanical failures. There was much less brain strain back then.
 
Acs said:
The thing I never hear from the haters is a viable alternative to what we got, only more whining. If you have a magic solution to make the 1.5ers race like the "good ol' days", whatever that means, I'm sure NASCAR is all ears. But realize that at the very least NASCAR has constantly been trying nearly everything over the last 5 years to find that package that will please everyone.

To recap everything that's been thrown at the wall:
High HP / high downforce / high drag = 2014 rules package
High HP / Low downforce / low drag = 2016-18 rules
High HP / Low Downforce / high drag = 2015 Indy and Michigan experiment
Low HP / high downforce / high drag = 2019 rules
Low HP/ low downforce / low drag = 2015-18 superspeedway package

So tell me, what's the winning combination here?
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real stock cars from the factory?
 
StandOnIt said:
They lost the handle, Harvick said they couldn't get the tight out of it. Nobody knew how the cars would do over a race. Considering, they put on a pretty good race for the first time out I thought.
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IMO, Harvick has been a 1 groove driver and likes to hook the bottom to turn his car.
His CC hasn't figured out this car yet so Harvick isn't happy right now.
The two Penske guys ( and Kyle ) can use many more groves and keep moving around to find speed. That helps to win races.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
There's a reason dirt drivers are regarded as having the best throttle and car control. Because it's all about throttle and car control.
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Yes. I'm fine with people who prefer the racing this way because it's more entertaining to them. I'm not fine with the basic denial of truths. It's an insult to what sprint car drivers do to claim that they are driving around with their right foot held to the floor, hoping for the "handling" to kick in. In sprint car racing, the driver's right foot is the foremost means of handling.
 
The slow cars weren't trimmed out properly, they had no book to go by the first race with the package. I heard plenty of off throttle from the faster cars..it wasn't hundreds of feet like the single file version, just a quick lift to get the car set. When the tires started to wear the off throttle was longer. The cars are much harder to drive. Any little mistake can cost numerous spots with the racing so close. I don't know how many pass, pass backs, and side by sides in that race. The guys that did well didn't seem insulted to me.
 
Acs said:
To recap everything that's been thrown at the wall:
High HP / high downforce / high drag = 2014 rules package
High HP / Low downforce / low drag = 2018 rules
High HP / Low Downforce / high drag = 2015 Indy and Michigan experiment
Low HP / high downforce / high drag = 2019 rules
Low HP/ low downforce / low drag = 2015-18 superspeedway package

So tell me, what's the winning combination here?
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I'm all about a meritocracy based on driver skill and team execution... that's what entertains me and makes me want to attend races and watch on TV. The big step toward lower downforce came in 2017, and the racing was excellent at intermediate tracks. For 2018, a further small reduction of downforce, and the racing was even better. NASCAR was almost there in 2018, and needed just two things to perfect its racing...
(1) Slash side force, which means a new Gen 7 car. This would further slow cornering speed, and eliminate the problem that side-by-side running gets the inside car loose so it spins out. This was the sole further step NASCAR needed to take.

(2) Hendrick and Penske lagged behind SHR and Gibbs in developing the car for 2018 rules. NASCAR needed to have a small measure of patience to permit Rick and Roger to get their sh!t together. In early/mid 2018, SHR and Gibbs dominated, especially the 18 and the 4... but oops, HMS has more fans than any other, and they weren't happy. By late summer 2018, HMS and Penske had pretty much recovered their competitiveness, and the racing was very, very favorably received. But the problem was... the decision had already been made to chuck it all out the window to aim for pack racing most every week... bleh.

I speak only for myself, but this new deal 2019 does not entertain me because it lacks the driving skill component that is the very essence of racing. Yes, it still requires skill to race in traffic head-to-head against others... that part remains, thankfully. But the car control skill test is dumbed down... and that's a buzzkill to me.
 
Team Penske said:
The racing now has stages, more passing and the cars are grouped closer together. That brings a little excitement and really ruins some great power naps.
Back in the day when everything was so great, you would have maybe 3 cars on the lead lap and 20 cars loaded to go home because of mechanical failures. There was much less brain strain back then.
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Oh man am I sorry I missed that! :rolleyes:

..and see.. I wish you were just kidding but I know you're not and that really bothers me for so many reasons.
 
Still a lot to see but I really haven't seen a difference in the racing aspect of the package other than straight away speed and maybe a bit more close racing after restarts. The top drivers and teams are still going to get more out of their cars and it's not anyone's race like was probably intended. Most noticable difference so far though is that the cars may be easier to drive which has resulted in less cautions.
 
I was at the race and thought there was just something off about the racing. Is the racing really that "close" when all these cars are just trying to get any little bit of momentum they can on the guy ahead or behind them? It was more of a momentum, clean air, aero battle all day and less about battling the tire wear, car, etc. It seemed like a glorified Truck race on an intermediate track. I don't mind those in Trucks, but these things should be man handled.

It wasn't awful, I can see why some people thought it was decent. But as a diehard who's sim raced for years I thought it was a little meh.
 
Team Penske said:
Why can't they drive the car?? Some on here are saying with no HP and the car glued to the track while riding on tires that don't out wear, anyone can drive them.
I might remind you that folks here are never wrong.
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Saying that “anyone can drive them” is dumb. It’s still a heavy stock car at high speeds and a ton of g-force over an extended period of time. Still takes a special skill to wheel them. Always will.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Saying that “anyone can drive them” is dumb. It’s still a heavy stock car at high speeds and a ton of g-force over an extended period of time. Still takes a special skill to wheel them. Always will.
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Sorry I forgot the :sarcasm: in my last post.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Well played, sir; well played. At least the same body contours that come out of the factory.
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stock cars would max out at about 150mph.
less aero dependence at that speed.
mustang and camero baseline stock v8s have 430-450hp
rebadge a lexus gs-f 465hp 5liter v8 to a toyota
they could at least try this in the infinti series.
 
NASCAR can go up and down on the spoiler and power all they want, it isn't helping.

Some mechanical changes to the suspension? Ride height maybe? NASCAR seems very reluctant to try anything like that. I don't think the racing will change much until they do.
 
ReturnTrip said:
NASCAR can go up and down on the spoiler and power all they want, it isn't helping.

Some mechanical changes to the suspension? Ride height maybe? NASCAR seems very reluctant to try anything like that. I don't think the racing will change much until they do.
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They havent adjusted ride height? Who knew?
 
ReturnTrip said:
NASCAR can go up and down on the spoiler and power all they want, it isn't helping.

Some mechanical changes to the suspension? Ride height maybe? NASCAR seems very reluctant to try anything like that. I don't think the racing will change much until they do.
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Its the shape of the sides of the cars. First step is to mandate that both sides be symmetrical and we’d be getting somewhere.
 
I gotta say, I liked what I saw in Vegas. Different pit strategy playing out, cars using different grooves in the track to find the fastest way around, good battles throughout the pack, a driver makes one mistake and the other drivers behind him have an opportunity to capitalize on it. The drivers are definitely more aggressive.

We'll see if this keeps going throughout the season.
 
StandOnIt said:
Bingo

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Larry Mac is the greatest.

Some good points in there, but also some obvious shill positive talk. I would love to see the list of driver's NASCAR talked to that were onboard or advocating for this package change. But anyway, if nothing else, I think this package has at least been pretty racy so far, completely aero and wide open but racy. 1 thing I do like watching, and it's already been said, is the "pass back", it looks tough to pass, and then when you finally do, it's possible you get "passed back" because of the increased draft effect.
 
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