What exactly was better about NASCAR back in the day, and why was that way better?

Revman said:
This was, is, and always will be wrong. 100% confident that the Forum will agree with me.
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I agree with you, but most R-F board members won't. What was great about Nascar decades ago was the racers and the competition they brought to the track. And the racers haven't changed. Real racers really race. The drivers, the crew chiefs, the teams... they bring it every week just like 50 years ago.

The Nascar Lifestyle has changed with the times. Motor homes instead of motels, jet planes, sponsors, etc, etc. There's a lot of nostalgia for the Early Nascar Lifestyle here, coupled with selective memory and rose tinted glasses. Everything was golden 40 years ago blah, blah, blah. Ha ha. It's no surprise that such a filtered, idealized view of the past would lead to utter disdain for today's racers.
 
LewTheShoe said:
..... There's a lot of nostalgia for the Early Nascar Lifestyle here, coupled with selective memory and rose tinted glasses. Everything was golden 40 years ago blah, blah, blah. Ha ha. It's no surprise that such a filtered, idealized view of the past would lead to utter disdain for today's racers.
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Seems like a broad brush too me, and none of us are immune, cynicism has many faces.
 
Greg said:
Seems like a broad brush too me, and none of us are immune, cynicism has many faces.
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Yeah, perhaps I should have written...

"Among *some* members here, there is powerful nostalgia for the Early Nascar Lifestyle, coupled with selective...."
 
LewTheShoe said:
I agree with you, but most R-F board members won't. What was great about Nascar decades ago was the racers and the competition they brought to the track. And the racers haven't changed. Real racers really race. The drivers, the crew chiefs, the teams... they bring it every week just like 50 years ago.

The Nascar Lifestyle has changed with the times. Motor homes instead of motels, jet planes, sponsors, etc, etc. There's a lot of nostalgia for the Early Nascar Lifestyle here, coupled with selective memory and rose tinted glasses. Everything was golden 40 years ago blah, blah, blah. Ha ha. It's no surprise that such a filtered, idealized view of the past would lead to utter disdain for today's racers.
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Few here are waxing nostalgic for "forty years ago." It's an exact point in time 14 years ago before Brian France took over and has done his best to destroy the sport. Sure, there were a few complaints then--North Wilkesboro comes to mind--but I guarantee you that the vast majority here would be far more content if BF hadn't happened. To say the complaints are a bunch of old people lamenting the "good ole days" suggests you don't read any of the substantive comments here.
 
29-4 said:
Few here are waxing nostalgic for "forty years ago." It's an exact point in time 14 years ago before Brian France took over and has done his best to destroy the sport. Sure, there were a few complaints then--North Wilkesboro comes to mind--but I guarantee you that the vast majority here would be far more content if BF hadn't happened. To say the complaints are a bunch of old people lamenting the "good ole days" suggests you don't read any of the substantive comments here.
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The late 80's / early 90's did not occur 14 years ago and that and earlier time periods make up the bulk of the nostalgic references here.

North Wilksboro became an economic failure for many reasons. It's unfortunate that it hasn't been flattened, loaded into demo trucks and hauled away.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I agree with you, but most R-F board members won't. What was great about Nascar decades ago was the racers and the competition they brought to the track. And the racers haven't changed. Real racers really race. The drivers, the crew chiefs, the teams... they bring it every week just like 50 years ago.

The Nascar Lifestyle has changed with the times. Motor homes instead of motels, jet planes, sponsors, etc, etc. There's a lot of nostalgia for the Early Nascar Lifestyle here, coupled with selective memory and rose tinted glasses. Everything was golden 40 years ago blah, blah, blah. Ha ha. It's no surprise that such a filtered, idealized view of the past would lead to utter disdain for today's racers.
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I agree with you. I am referring to the horror of Playboy without the pictures. :D
 
aunty dive said:
The late 80's / early 90's did not occur 14 years ago and that and earlier time periods make up the bulk of the nostalgic references here.

North Wilksboro became an economic failure for many reasons. It's unfortunate that it hasn't been flattened, loaded into demo trucks and hauled away.
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There is an easy, consistent path that extends in NASCAR from 1975 (first year of 'modern' points system) to 2003 (before Brian France took the reigns of power). A consistent points system. No/few fake cautions. Races on uniquely configured tracks. Sure, 80s and 90s might have been the "glory days," but early 2000s NASCAR wasn't an insult to everything the sport had been.
 
I think your point about some people missing the Nascar lifestyle rings true and is also applicable to a lot of other areas of life but with respect to Nascar I do think the dissatisfaction runs far deeper. Nascar has many problems whether real or perceived and in reality there is no distinction between the two as perception is reality for most.
 
29-4 said:
There is an easy, consistent path that extends in NASCAR from 1975 (first year of 'modern' points system) to 2003 (before Brian France took the reigns of power). A consistent points system. No/few fake cautions. Races on uniquely configured tracks. Sure, 80s and 90s might have been the "glory days," but early 2000s NASCAR wasn't an insult to everything the sport had been.
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Rinse, wash, repeat. I lived, raced and watched other people race through the whole thing ... beginning before 1975.

They're still racing and I'm still watching ... as you will be, your recent retirement and subsequent return to the fold notwithstanding.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Every year Nascar loses fans, viewers and race attenders and until that situation turns around there will be lots of squawking.
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I am not sure if I can explain this correctly but here it goes:

For us fans who can go to races - its never been better!
I have spent many , many a year crammed in stands like sardines.
A full backpack of equipment and a soft cooler filled with cold ones
under my seat and in my lap. Now , plenty of room to spread out
and really enjoy the freedom. I don't care about stands not
full, I quietly cheer for it. Tracks will get their money one way or the
other. Sooooo really, if you have ever'd wanted to go to a race,
now is the time. Bristol (sold out forever) and may others, now is the time.
Talladega last fall, I had my legs hung over the row in front of me!
Absolute luxury.
 
Hotrod said:
I am not sure if I can explain this correctly but here it goes:

For us fans who can go to races - its never been better!
I have spent many , many a year crammed in stands like sardines.
A full backpack of equipment and a soft cooler filled with cold ones
under my seat and in my lap. Now , plenty of room to spread out
and really enjoy the freedom. I don't care about stands not
full, I quietly cheer for it. Tracks will get their money one way or the
other. Sooooo really, if you have ever'd wanted to go to a race,
now is the time. Bristol (sold out forever) and may others, now is the time.
Talladega last fall, I had my legs hung over the row in front of me!
Absolute luxury.
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I understand your point. It does make it more comfortable for me, in a selfish way, that I can have an entire row (or even two!) to myself at Dover in Turn 1 and getting in and out of parking is a lot less time consuming but if the trend continues for too long, the sport's long term viability is threatened. More disturbing is the TV rating trend. The next TV contracts will be MUCH smaller which will mean less money for tracks, less sponsorship dollars for teams and NASCAR will return to being a niche sport. That may be fine for some but it will be the equivalent of going to see a AA or AAA baseball team instead of a MLB game and while I enjoy the former, more intimate atmosphere at times, it doesn't compare to the excitement of a full house in the big leagues with the elite talent level on display.
 
NJJammer said:
I understand your point. It does make it more comfortable for me, in a selfish way, that I can have an entire row (or even two!) to myself at Dover in Turn 1 and getting in and out of parking is a lot less time consuming but if the trend continues for too long, the sport's long term viability is threatened. More disturbing is the TV rating trend. The next TV contracts will be MUCH smaller which will mean less money for tracks, less sponsorship dollars for teams and NASCAR will return to being a niche sport. That may be fine for some but it will be the equivalent of going to see a AA or AAA baseball team instead of a MLB game and while I enjoy the former, more intimate atmosphere at times, it doesn't compare to the excitement of a full house in the big leagues with the elite talent level on display.
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Sounds like going back to 1980 to me. Great era of racing but with much safer cars, safer barriers, reliable equipment.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Sounds like going back to 1980 to me. Great era of racing but with much safer cars, safer barriers, reliable equipment.
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Be careful what you wish for. That road could eventually lead to a place where even manufacturers become indifferent to the series and pull their engine development programs and tracks could be sold off when the real estate development potential exceeds the value of running a track that draws half the crowds or less than it does now. Obviously, it would take a while before NASCAR comes to that fork in the road but that is the current direction it's heading.
 
As far as motorsports, NASCAR being a niche sport will not happen
in my life time or the next 20 years. I mean really, Nascar probably at or near the top now
down to a niche? Hmmmmm. Will it continue to right size itself, sure. Niche, no. IMHO.
 
Hotrod said:
As far as motorsports, NASCAR being a niche sport will not happen
in my life time or the next 20 years. I mean really, Nascar probably at or near the top now
down to a niche? Hmmmmm. Will it continue to right size itself, sure. Niche, no. IMHO.
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Depends on your definition of niche sport.

According to writer Jeff Gluck, NASCAR was already there 4-1/2 years ago when ratings and attendance were significantly better.

http://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2012/12/3/3724220/nascar-popularity-poll-football-baseball-2012

In my area of New Jersey, NASCAR is a niche sport. Not many people here know or care that it even exists.
 
I am an auto tech. In last 20 years of living in NC I have had ONE co-worker that was interested in racing. Period. Not specifically NASCAR but any type of racing. Amazed me that people in the automotive industry have zero interest in racing. Lots of complaints about how they don't have time to watch a race. But to be fair they also don't watch movies, TV or read. People need to let others do/feel whatever they want.
 
NJJammer said:
In my area of New Jersey, NASCAR is a niche sport. Not many people here know or care that it even exists.
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I stay away from comparing to the stick and ball sports but I get it for sake of discussion
but I don't want to veer too much off topic. Down here college football is king and probably
always will be

When you stay with in its industry segment (motorsports) you will find Nascar is at or close to the top in the US .
Being in Jersey and surrounding area , maybe the open wheel modifieds might be more popular.
We have virtually none of that here in the South. You guys have Watkins Glen 200 miles away.
I noticed they were getting some decent crowds hanging on the fence in recent years.
 
aunty dive said:
Rinse, wash, repeat. I lived, raced and watched other people race through the whole thing ... beginning before 1975.

They're still racing and I'm still watching ... as you will be, your recent retirement and subsequent return to the fold notwithstanding.
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I think different forms of racing will always be around but I think racing's footprint will continue to get smaller before leveling out.
 
Hotrod said:
I am not sure if I can explain this correctly but here it goes:

For us fans who can go to races - its never been better!
I have spent many , many a year crammed in stands like sardines.
A full backpack of equipment and a soft cooler filled with cold ones
under my seat and in my lap. Now , plenty of room to spread out
and really enjoy the freedom. I don't care about stands not
full, I quietly cheer for it. Tracks will get their money one way or the
other. Sooooo really, if you have ever'd wanted to go to a race,
now is the time. Bristol (sold out forever) and may others, now is the time.
Talladega last fall, I had my legs hung over the row in front of me!
Absolute luxury.
Click to expand...

Actually I don't think Nascar is a gate driven organization any longer thanks to the generous broadcasts rights so paid attendance is always helpful but not as critical as in years past. The problem is that as Nascar's interest continues to wane there is less money coming to the series in terms of sponsorship dollars to the teams and Nascar itself. This is a problem that will be exacerbated unless by some miracle Nascar can get things turned around.
 
I agree Skoal. Sponsorship dollars are tough especially in motorsports. I think that
we are still progressing through a tough financial stretch in the US that
hit rock bottom in 2008. Nascar is still standing with a full 40 car field every weekend.
I know it was 43. All things considered I hope it continues stabilized or upticking.
When there are only 35 entries and decreasing every year, then yes, activate
the alerts.
 
It's not, the product right now is as good as it's ever been. The big thing is now there's so much parity, NASCAR in the past and short track racing is pretty much dominated by the same 5-6 guys. IMO this is what makes Jimmie Johnson a legend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
29-4 said:
There is an easy, consistent path that extends in NASCAR from 1975 (first year of 'modern' points system) to 2003 (before Brian France took the reigns of power). A consistent points system. No/few fake cautions. Races on uniquely configured tracks. Sure, 80s and 90s might have been the "glory days," but early 2000s NASCAR wasn't an insult to everything the sport had been.
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I am not comfortable defending Brian France. I don't like the man. He is not a dynamic field general, which the sport needs in these trying times. I agree with those who say he doesn't appear to love stock car racing. He is a poor communicator and a questionable decision maker. He is nothing like Bill Jr. However, there is plenty of blame to go around...

As we discussed just a few days ago, there is no question who was in charge of Nascar 13 years ago, when the schedule "realignment" was completed and the chase was introduced. Hint: not BZF.
https://racing-forums.com/threads/time-machine-to-2003.57097/

The tracks Nascar races on today were all in place in the 1990s, following an orgy of ISC/SMI investment during that decade.

Your love for the Latford points scale seems bizarre, given your knowledge and training in quantitative analysis. It was never intended to crown the most deserving champion. Its purpose was to keep the points close until the end of the year. It under-rewarded winning and encouraged a coast-and-collect mentality toward points racing. And as a result, the most deserving driver/team was denied the Cup in multiple years.

I wonder if Jack Roush imposed the same championship regime on Matt Kenseth back in August or September 2003 that he employed with Chris Buescher in 2015... drive every lap of every race like you're in a bubble? Regardless of what they tweet, the majority of Nascar fans don't want that IMO.

I regret that Nascar doesn't have the gumption and the balls to take a clean sheet approach to the championship format. But I firmly believe it's better now than it was a year ago.
 
The brand isn't the same. Too many gimmicks, inconsistent points systems, fake debris, now planned cautions, crappy schedule, not expanding to new markets.

Also, one thing I noticed last year attending two weekends last year was the lack of vendor booths, simulators, and stuff like that. There used to be a lot more.
 
AuzGrams said:
The brand isn't the same. Too many gimmicks, inconsistent points systems, fake debris, now planned cautions, crappy schedule, not expanding to new markets.

Also, one thing I noticed last year attending two weekends last year was the lack of vendor booths, simulators, and stuff like that. There used to be a lot more.
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Less vendors, less things to see and do before the race and I miss the trucks as opposed to that stupid merchandise tent.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I am not comfortable defending Brian France. I don't like the man. He is not a dynamic field general, which the sport needs in these trying times. I agree with those who say he doesn't appear to love stock car racing. He is a poor communicator and a questionable decision maker. He is nothing like Bill Jr. However, there is plenty of blame to go around...

As we discussed just a few days ago, there is no question who was in charge of Nascar 13 years ago, when the schedule "realignment" was completed and the chase was introduced. Hint: not BZF.
https://racing-forums.com/threads/time-machine-to-2003.57097/

The tracks Nascar races on today were all in place in the 1990s, following an orgy of ISC/SMI investment during that decade.

Your love for the Latford points scale seems bizarre, given your knowledge and training in quantitative analysis. It was never intended to crown the most deserving champion. Its purpose was to keep the points close until the end of the year. It under-rewarded winning and encouraged a coast-and-collect mentality toward points racing. And as a result, the most deserving driver/team was denied the Cup in multiple years.

I wonder if Jack Roush imposed the same championship regime on Matt Kenseth back in August or September 2003 that he employed with Chris Buescher in 2015... drive every lap of every race like you're in a bubble? Regardless of what they tweet, the majority of Nascar fans don't want that IMO.

I regret that Nascar doesn't have the gumption and the balls to take a clean sheet approach to the championship format. But I firmly believe it's better now than it was a year ago.
Click to expand...

I agree completely that Brian France was not the individual that started the mess we are in today as decisions regarding scuttling tracks had already been made, tracks had been reconfigured and new ones built just to name a few things. The bloom was off the rose prior to Brian taking the helm but instead of reversing some errors he plunged headlong into more.
 
This still brings a chuckle.

"But make no mistake, France wants to figure out how to ensure NASCAR has the best racing in the world. He just doesn't think that track promoter Bruton Smith's idea of implementing mandatory cautions during races is the way to go.

'It's a very clear line to us -- what we're not going to do are gimmicky things,' he said Friday at Daytona International Speedway."

Wonder if Smith has mentioned how much he approves of the racing interruptions to France.
 
Back in the day drivers were just drivers. Drivers have had to become spokesmen, do commercials, be photogenic, and probably a bunch of sponsor stuff I'm not aware of. The job description has changed.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Back in the day drivers were just drivers. Drivers have had to become spokesmen, do commercials, be photogenic, and probably a bunch of sponsor stuff I'm not aware of. The job description has changed.
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Way back when some of the drivers had to also have a real vocation and were responsible for wrenching on cars so they still had a lot of things to do but I agree that things are different now that money has entered the series. When Ricky Rudd lost his Tide sponsorship one of the things he said was he probably needed to hang around Proctor and Gamble more so when a driver/team takes the big bucks from a sponsor they are owned in many respects.
 
NJJammer said:
Less vendors, less things to see and do before the race and I miss the trucks as opposed to that stupid merchandise tent.
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I wonder if the teams themselves are selling more merchandise as appose to the separate trailers.
Be interesting to find out. I might ask around this year at the races. Seeing the tent once was good for me.
I would rather walk up to a trailer.
 
My question is would NASCAR still be in the shape they are in today if they kept the old Winston Cup points system. I would think things would look a bit better, at least most fans would not question the authenticity of your champion. But I still think the same issues of attendance and lack of sponsors would be here.
 
Hotrod said:
I wonder if the teams themselves are selling more merchandise as appose to the separate trailers.
Be interesting to find out. I might ask around this year at the races. Seeing the tent once was good for me.
I would rather walk up to a trailer.
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I miss those trailers too, each trailer I felt had individual merchandise that pertained to that driver that was hard to find online. Now since the Fanatics store I kinda think that everything merchandise wise which pertains to drivers are more generic and streamlined. I mean Fanatics didnt even sell Chase Elliott's Under Armour hat he wore all last year, had to buy that at the online Hendrick Motorsports store.
 
The problem is Brian is a knee jerk reactionary. The Chase didn't need to be invented just because MK spanked the field in 2003. Does the 16th place man after 26 even deserve a chance at the title? No. Do we need stupid eliminations? No. Does Ky Busch deserve to be called a Cup Champion? Not until he wins one when he drives in all 36. And if I were Kurt I would hold that over his head every chance I had. I won mine in 36, you needed a rule change to get yours is what I would be telling him. If you really must have a post season, take the final five races and reset the points and go from there. Look, if it naturally comes down to the last race like it did in '79 or '92 that's fine. But I have a hard time saying the 48 was the better team over the 4 in 2016 but that's me.
 
You could use some new material.

Paragraph breaks would also help.
 
Snappy D said:
Sorry, I disagree. Many fans feel the same way he does and speaking for myself, I agree with many of the points mentioned. The Winston Cup Points System was great in my opinion.
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You are correct. Many feel that way ... with cause ... I understand that and I also agree with many of those points.

My issue is with the endless repetition of said grievances by the same people. I eagerly await the requested new material. I don't anticipate seeing any.
 
aunty dive said:
You are correct. Many feel that way ... with cause ... I understand that and I also agree with many of those points.

My issue is with the endless repetition of said grievances by the same people. I eagerly await the requested new material. I don't anticipate seeing any.
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Got ya. I won't try to repeat myself ha ha
 
KTMLew01 said:
I am an auto tech. In last 20 years of living in NC I have had ONE co-worker that was interested in racing. Period. Not specifically NASCAR but any type of racing. Amazed me that people in the automotive industry have zero interest in racing. Lots of complaints about how they don't have time to watch a race. But to be fair they also don't watch movies, TV or read. People need to let others do/feel whatever they want.
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Most of my generation in my family were mechanics or worked in some capacity in the automotive industry. Ford, GM, Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes Benz, etc.
When we were kids we had mini bikes, go karts, motorcycles, etc.
We raced 1/4 midgets and motorcycles. We built cars as soon as we were old enough to drive. As kids we fixed our own toys, we could OA weld, do minor fabrications, etc.
Some of us are no longer in the automotive industry but we build cars and motorcycles as a hobby, we have Snap On toolboxes in the garage at home.
Our kids cannot and have zero interest in checking their own oil. My kid wouldn't know a hammer from a screwdriver. I can build a special construction Harley from the frame up including paint. My kid has no desire to build anything mechanical but he did say, "Dad, you need to build me a Harley." I took my son to a NASCAR race and he slept through it. We ask the kids in the family if they want to go to the races and none of them are interested.
Times are changing. IMO, NASCAR isn't going to attract any new potential lifetime fans.
They need to keep the current fan base and I'm afraid they're going in the wrong direction.
JMO, of course.
 
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