William Byron is the best driver in NASCAR

Nitro Dude said:
That was before Bowman ended up with a crew chief with little experience. I think Byron and Rudy are really working well together and the great results are showing it. I don't know what's going on in the 48 camp. I don't know how much is the car or did Bowman's sprint car crash get in his head a little. But I hope they figure it out pretty soon because the 48 team is definitely struggling.
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Bowman has finished 4th, 4th, and 8th in three of the past four weeks now. He’s probably always going to be the clear #4 at HMS with the current lineup, but I think he’s starting to get over the hump and reasserting himself as someone who can run top 10 on a regular basis and compete for wins on occasion.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Bowman has finished 4th, 4th, and 8th in three of the past four weeks now. He’s probably always going to be the clear #4 at HMS with the current lineup, but I think he’s starting to get over the hump and reasserting himself as someone who can run top 10 on a regular basis and compete for wins on occasion.
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Bowman gained a spot and moved into the top ten in rankings, I agree, running in the top 10 isn't bad.
 
StandOnIt said:
Bowman gained a spot and moved into the top ten in rankings, I agree, running in the top 10 isn't bad.
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To me, everyone freaks out about a win and wants to put a driver in the HOF the week they win and bury them when they are not. However, in this discussion of who the "best" driver is my money is on top 5 percentage. Wins don't tell me much other than they had a fast car and things went their way. However, showing that you can consistently run in the top 5-10 is what tells me a driver is good over the long haul. Let's take a look shall we?

Byron - Career top 5% 19.64%

This does not compare favorably to other top drivers in the sport such as:

Hamlin 34.04%
Larson: 31.85%
Elliott : 31.97%
Busch : 36.00%
Logano: 29.21%

Granted, since Byron figured it out which I think started in 2021 his top 5 rate is right in line with those drivers at 30.17% and that's a large enough sample size to mean something to me. I did not pull 10 top data but I am sure it's right in line or close to this for comparison purposes. So, overall, I think saying Byron is the best "right now" is not a completely ridiculous statement but man I hate this "best" argument. To me the best driver right now is Denny Hamlin and I am not saying that just because he won a race last week like so many jump to do. I am saying it because not only is his top-5 rate among the best in the sport over a long career but he's STILL doing it 20 season in as last year and this year combined he is at 36.36%

Compare this to the all time greats:

Petty: 46.87%
Earnhardt 41.56%
Gordon: 40.37%
Johnson: 33.62%

That's correct folks - Hamlin has a better career top-5 rate than 7-time champion Jimmie Johnson and while he is not as close to the others I think top5's were much easier to come by in those days pf Petty, Earnhardt and even early on for Jeff Gordon. It's no coincidence that the top-5 percentages for the greats are coming down over time because the competition is better. I really don't care that he has not won a title. Winning a title today means you got hot at the right time and nothing else. I say that as a fan of Chase that his title means little to me. Look at the top-5 rate. That's good driving over the long haul. Need further proof? You know who's NOT on this list? Current champ Ryan Blaney. His top-5 rate is only 22.6%. Not bad but not among the best of the best and this is a guy who won a title. Is he better than everyone else because he won a title? Nope. I also say this as a person who does not like Denny but I love stats because over the long haul they do not lie. Wille B is doing great but he also typically starts hot and cools off so let's not put him the HOF just yet people. I always give credit where due though and he has come a long way and done much better than I thought he was going to do after his first 2-3 years.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
To me, everyone freaks out about a win and wants to put a driver in the HOF the week they win and bury them when they are not. However, in this discussion of who the "best" driver is my money is on top 5 percentage. Wins don't tell me much other than they had a fast car and things went their way. However, showing that you can consistently run in the top 5-10 is what tells me a driver is good over the long haul. Let's take a look shall we?

Byron - Career top 5% 19.64%

This does not compare favorably to other top drivers in the sport such as:

Hamlin 34.04%
Larson: 31.85%
Elliott : 31.97%
Busch : 36.00%
Logano: 29.21%

Granted, since Byron figured it out which I think started in 2021 his top 5 rate is right in line with those drivers at 30.17% and that's a large enough sample size to mean something to me. I did not pull 10 top data but I am sure it's right in line or close to this for comparison purposes. So, overall, I think saying Byron is the best "right now" is not a completely ridiculous statement but man I hate this "best" argument. To me the best driver right now is Denny Hamlin and I am not saying that just because he won a race last week like so many jump to do. I am saying it because not only is his top-5 rate among the best in the sport over a long career but he's STILL doing it 20 season in as last year and this year combined he is at 36.36%

Compare this to the all time greats:

Petty: 46.87%
Earnhardt 41.56%
Gordon: 40.37%
Johnson: 33.62%

That's correct folks - Hamlin has a better career top-5 rate than 7-time champion Jimmie Johnson and while he is not as close to the others I think top5's were much easier to come by in those days pf Petty, Earnhardt and even early on for Jeff Gordon. It's no coincidence that the top-5 percentages for the greats are coming down over time because the competition is better. I really don't care that he has not won a title. Winning a title today means you got hot at the right time and nothing else. I say that as a fan of Chase that his title means little to me. Look at the top-5 rate. That's good driving over the long haul. Need further proof? You know who's NOT on this list? Current champ Ryan Blaney. His top-5 rate is only 22.6%. Not bad but not among the best of the best and this is a guy who won a title. Is he better than everyone else because he won a title? Nope. I also say this as a person who does not like Denny but I love stats because over the long haul they do not lie. Wille B is doing great but he also typically starts hot and cools off so let's not put him the HOF just yet people. I always give credit where due though and he has come a long way and done much better than I thought he was going to do after his first 2-3 years.
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Love me some cold hard factual data.
Unfortunately the hot air blowers will continue no matter how much you slap them in the face with this kind of stuff.

Byron is good, but there is a very clear and direct correlation to his success with when Fugle was hired (who he had crazy success with prior). His first 3 seasons were extremely "meh", 9 top 5's combined, and then his performance suddenly sky rocketed. That isn't just a guy "figuring it out", that isn't how it works in any sport for that matter. Ty Gibbs is already at 7 top 5's in just barely over a season, Elliott had 33 top 5s in his first 3 seasons and that was when HMS was not at the top in performance, but he's an overrated bum around these parts cause he hasn't won in a year. This place is hilarious.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Love me some cold hard factual data.
Unfortunately the hot air blowers will continue no matter how much you slap them in the face with this kind of stuff.

Byron is good, but there is a very clear and direct correlation to his success with when Fugle was hired (who he had crazy success with prior). His first 3 seasons were extremely "meh", 9 top 5's combined, and then his performance suddenly sky rocketed. That isn't just a guy "figuring it out", that isn't how it works in any sport for that matter. Ty Gibbs is already at 7 top 5's in just barely over a season, Elliott had 33 top 5s in his first 3 seasons and that was when HMS was not at the top in performance, but he's an overrated bum around these parts cause he hasn't won in a year. This place is hilarious.
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Eh Byron wasn't born with a steering wheel in his hand like the other two and he got a late start. I've never said he was a goat, but he has been a force the last couple years and that is all that counts with me. I will continue to brag on him as he continues to improve.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Love me some cold hard factual data.
Unfortunately the hot air blowers will continue no matter how much you slap them in the face with this kind of stuff.

Byron is good, but there is a very clear and direct correlation to his success with when Fugle was hired (who he had crazy success with prior). His first 3 seasons were extremely "meh", 9 top 5's combined, and then his performance suddenly sky rocketed. That isn't just a guy "figuring it out", that isn't how it works in any sport for that matter. Ty Gibbs is already at 7 top 5's in just barely over a season, Elliott had 33 top 5s in his first 3 seasons and that was when HMS was not at the top in performance, but he's an overrated bum around these parts cause he hasn't won in a year. This place is hilarious.
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No doubt Byron is a good driver but a really good crew chief that they work well with is needed to fully unlock them. Evidence shows Fugle is Byron’s Knaus or Evernham. That chemistry between driver and team is so important.
 
Efisher131 said:
No doubt Byron is a good driver but a really good crew chief that they work well with is needed to fully unlock them. Evidence shows Fugle is Byron’s Knaus or Evernham. That chemistry between driver and team is so important.
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It took Rudy a little while to get his bearings at Hendrick, but his second year with Byron things started clicking better. They say Byron is a real hard worker. I think that is the whip ass he has. Hard work and determination. I think Rudy isn't far behind.
 
I denied it for a while. But William Byron is the real deal.

Keep in mind, Byron had like 5 years of actual stock car experience before being going Cup racing as a teenager. One year a piece in Trucks and Xfinity. He worked his butt off and improved every year in Cup. Finally came into his own with the right CC. He’s now at that age where Larson, Elliott and Logano all started winning and winning a lot.

To me, he’s Joey Logano if he never left JGR. He might even be more naturally talented than Joey. Rick Hendrick is being rewarded by the patience Coach and TRD never had.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
Love me some cold hard factual data.
Unfortunately the hot air blowers will continue no matter how much you slap them in the face with this kind of stuff.

Byron is good, but there is a very clear and direct correlation to his success with when Fugle was hired (who he had crazy success with prior). His first 3 seasons were extremely "meh", 9 top 5's combined, and then his performance suddenly sky rocketed. That isn't just a guy "figuring it out", that isn't how it works in any sport for that matter. Ty Gibbs is already at 7 top 5's in just barely over a season, Elliott had 33 top 5s in his first 3 seasons and that was when HMS was not at the top in performance, but he's an overrated bum around these parts cause he hasn't won in a year. This place is hilarious.
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Now that there is an interesting point. I did not realize his success coincided with Fugle coming abord. Now the question to me is this really because if how good Byron is or is it because Fugle has the magic touch? The reality is that it's probably a combination of both. When the driver and the crew chief have good chemistry that equals race winning speed most weeks. I feel like the best in the sport right now is Larson and Daniels. They have good chemistry and usually the strategy is on point. It's rare they lay an egg like Phoenix this year. For Chase's top-5 rate that he has achieved (even I was surprised it's slightly better than Larson's) I don't feel like he's ever had that with AG. I also feel AG's strategies are out to lunch and all he ever wants to do is take 4 tires all the time - even when track position is king and tires mean little. Who can forget the win he cost Chase in the 600 in 2020? I don't see other CC's doing that.
 
Efisher131 said:
No doubt Byron is a good driver but a really good crew chief that they work well with is needed to fully unlock them. Evidence shows Fugle is Byron’s Knaus or Evernham. That chemistry between driver and team is so important.
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For sure. I think the nextgen suits both of them really well for whatever reason. Byron said something on the Dale Jr download recently attributing some of it to the super late models that he runs. I think Chase even said something similar too, there's something about those cars that feels similar to this new car. Could be why Chase really started running those more last year. Byron has been running them on the side somewhat heavy for a couple years now.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
For sure. I think the nextgen suits both of them really well for whatever reason. Byron said something on the Dale Jr download recently attributing some of it to the super late models that he runs. I think Chase even said something similar too, there's something about those cars that feels similar to this new car. Could be why Chase really started running those more last year. Byron has been running them on the side somewhat heavy for a couple years now.
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That's an interesting thought...I thought most of Chase's experience coming up was with super late models so you'd think he would have adapted to this new car better. All about that right feel I guess.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
That's an interesting thought...I thought most of Chase's experience coming up was with super late models so you'd think he would have adapted to this new car better. All about that right feel I guess.
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Yeah it was, but I think really ever since he came onto the NASCAR scene he began running them less and less aside from the big events like the Snowball Derby and Winchester a few times so it probably became foreign to him over time. Last year he really increased his time in those cars again on the side and even this year I believe he ran one down in Daytona just before the 500.
 
Byron is a product of the current rule structure with regard to this neutered “race car.” He’s good with this set up.
If NASGREED would give a solid share of the broadcast $$ to the race teams, give them adequate practice to test and adjust setups then William Byron would be just another Dale Jr.
This new car was implemented with relatively very little input from the drivers. This car still has a lot of bugs. The horsepower is schit. The transaxle is schit. The aero is schit.
Give these guys some money and let them test and develop this crap car.
 
BobbyFord said:
Byron is a product of the current rule structure with regard to this neutered “race car.” He’s good with this set up.
If NASGREED would give a solid share of the broadcast $$ to the race teams, give them adequate practice to test and adjust setups then William Byron would be just another Dale Jr.
This new car was implemented with relatively very little input from the drivers. This car still has a lot of bugs. The horsepower is schit. The transaxle is schit. The aero is schit.
Give these guys some money and let them test and develop this crap car.
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The vast majority of drivers would kill for Dale Jr’s career.
 
BobbyFord said:
Byron is a product of the current rule structure with regard to this neutered “race car.” He’s good with this set up.
If NASGREED would give a solid share of the broadcast $$ to the race teams, give them adequate practice to test and adjust setups then William Byron would be just another Dale Jr.
This new car was implemented with relatively very little input from the drivers. This car still has a lot of bugs. The horsepower is schit. The transaxle is schit. The aero is schit.
Give these guys some money and let them test and develop this crap car.
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Probably should have used IMO in there somewhere. There isn't any way of knowing comparing the two drivers. They are definitely two different personalities and they approach racing completely differently. The sport is similar but many changes have occurred since Jr was in Cup.
 
BobbyFord said:
Byron is a product of the current rule structure with regard to this neutered “race car.” He’s good with this set up.
If NASGREED would give a solid share of the broadcast $$ to the race teams, give them adequate practice to test and adjust setups then William Byron would be just another Dale Jr.
This new car was implemented with relatively very little input from the drivers. This car still has a lot of bugs. The horsepower is schit. The transaxle is schit. The aero is schit.
Give these guys some money and let them test and develop this crap car.
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I can't say Byron's success is all about the car since he ran very well in 2021 in the old car.
 
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