Win and You're In; I'm Sold

ChexOrWrex said:
Sohardcore.jpg



We all know how it works. :confused: The ones who have seen the changes nascar has made over the past 15 years are just pointing out how this system may fail to crown a champion who did not have the best overall season.
Click to expand...
EXACTLY!!! You guys don't seem to understand that its not the driver who has the best overall season that wins the championship. Is it really that hard to get? Like it or not that's how it is..

Right now "the best overall season" includes:

A regular season win.
Remain in the top 30.
Do better than at least 4 drivers 3 races at a time in the chase.
Finish ahead of the other final 3 at Homestead.

OR

Lead the points at any of those junctures.



Whatever your idea of what the overall best season is.. is no longer accurate. Is that really that hard to understand?



Seriously though... Am I the only one that can see that? Like it or not... your opinions really don't matter.

You either need to be the most consistent driver NASCAR has ever seen or you have to win. Period. Don't like it? Watch soccer .. apparently their scoreless games are the best ones :p
 
SlicedBread22 said:
EXACTLY!!! You guys don't seem to understand that its not the driver who has the best overall season that wins the championship. Is it really that hard to get? Like it or not that's how it is..

Right now "the best overall season" includes:

A regular season win.
Remain in the top 30.
Do better than at least 4 drivers 3 races at a time in the chase.
Finish ahead of the other final 3 at Homestead.

OR

Lead the points at any of those junctures.



Whatever your idea of what the overall best season is.. is no longer accurate. Is that really that hard to understand?



Seriously though... Am I the only one that can see that? Like it or not... your opinions really don't matter.

You either need to be the most consistent driver NASCAR has ever seen or you have to win. Period. Don't like it? Watch soccer :p
Click to expand...
So long as it doesn't include another Joey-manlove-guycrush-shrine-thread I can deal with it. ;)
 
SlicedBread22 said:
EXACTLY!!! You guys don't seem to understand that its not the driver who has the best overall season that wins the championship. Is it really that hard to get? Like it or not that's how it is..

Right now "the best overall season" includes:

A regular season win.
Remain in the top 30.
Do better than at least 4 drivers 3 races at a time in the chase.
Finish ahead of the other final 3 at Homestead.

OR

Lead the points at any of those junctures.



Whatever your idea of what the overall best season is.. is no longer accurate. Is that really that hard to understand?



Seriously though... Am I the only one that can see that? Like it or not... your opinions really don't matter.

You either need to be the most consistent driver NASCAR has ever seen or you have to win. Period. Don't like it? Watch soccer .. apparently their scoreless games are the best ones :p
Click to expand...
Can some one else tackle this one for me? Study break is over
 
SlicedBread22 said:
EXACTLY!!! You guys don't seem to understand that its not the driver who has the best overall season that wins the championship. Is it really that hard to get? Like it or not that's how it is..

Right now "the best overall season" includes:

A regular season win.
Remain in the top 30.
Do better than at least 4 drivers 3 races at a time in the chase.
Finish ahead of the other final 3 at Homestead.

OR

Lead the points at any of those junctures.



Whatever your idea of what the overall best season is.. is no longer accurate. Is that really that hard to understand?



Seriously though... Am I the only one that can see that? Like it or not... your opinions really don't matter.

You either need to be the most consistent driver NASCAR has ever seen or you have to win. Period. Don't like it? Watch soccer .. apparently their scoreless games are the best ones :p
Click to expand...
"Best overall season" is still fairly easy to determine. The difference is that NASCAR no longer crowns the best driver and team champions. They just do as most other sports do now and crown a winner.
 
ted@economy said:
I'm not a Jimmie Johnson fan , but if Reed Sorenson or Trevor Bayne make the chase and Jimmie and Jeff don't make the chase , I will be severely pissed .
Click to expand...
You won't have to worry about that. They'll win or get in on points. It's very unlikely we'll have 16 or more winners. Bayne can't make the Chase anyways.
 
FLRacingFan said:
"Best overall season" is still fairly easy to determine. The difference is that NASCAR no longer crowns the best driver and team champions. They just do as most other sports do now and crown a winner.
Click to expand...
I think the best part of all this is were arguing like its already happened. Why? Lol For all we know this could end up being the best finale in the history of NASCAR but of course NASCAR fans have to be pessimistic and point out every flaw as if its already happened.. I mean come on we actually used Reed Sorenson lucking into not only one but TWO(2... yes... 2) wins as an example?! Give me a break... I know it wasn't you but that's stretching it a bit. We can say well this guy might do this and this could happen or bla bla bla all day but until November theres really nothing to even talk about.

With that I have once again exhausted my available resources for this argument without repeating myself. If any of you have a response or question of some sort read through my previous posts and pick an answer.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
With that I have once again exhausted my available resources for this argument without repeating myself. If any of you have a response or question of some sort read through my previous posts and pick an answer.
Click to expand...
I like you, Slice, but to be honest, that's basically all you've been doing in this thread. Your response to pretty much everyone that has said that they dislike the new points system has been "those are the rules and I like them, and your opinion doesn't matter. Deal with it." You may like the new rules, and that's fine, but that's not exactly the most convincing counter-argument for why the rules should be the way they are now, which is what those of us who disagree with you have been discussing.
 
FLRacingFan said:
You won't have to worry about that. They'll win or get in on points. It's very unlikely we'll have 16 or more winners. Bayne can't make the Chase anyways.
Click to expand...

I'm not worried in the least . They aren't my drivers . I just think it would be stupid if they don't get in and someone with far fewer points does . But . that's just me , ...not changing with the times ...that's what it takes to sell Nascar today.
 
The racing has been at its best for years in just what 8 races?, I'd hope it was the change in the cars versus the points system but win and in, with contingencies is interesting.
 
Wingnutcnc said:
The racing has been at its best for years in just what 8 races?, I'd hope it was the change in the cars versus the points system but win and in, with contingencies is interesting.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
I think its a bit of both.
 
Somebody somewhere will always have a problem with whatever points system NASCAR implements. There is little use in arguing over it, as none of us are members of the sanctioning body that comes up with the various rules. Just be happy that the racing is really good this year, and allow the points deal to fully shake out before losing your heads over it :)
 
mreed said:
Can anyone show me where any driver that ever said "it was a good points day" after a race, didn't try to get the best finish he possibly could in that race?
Click to expand...


Answer NO . All the drivers who race for a living are responsible to their owners and sponsors to get the very best finish they can , or forfeit their job to some young gun . By definition a race car driver has to fight as hard for 25th as the second place driver is fighting for first . When a driver says that he had a good points day , he is simply stating the obvious . If he wrecked and had a bad points day , he usually says that too . Giving chase spots to one time winners is just like putting lipstick on a pig. Doesn't change the racing .
 
mreed said:
Can anyone show me where any driver that ever said "it was a good points day" after a race, didn't try to get the best finish he possibly could in that race?
Click to expand...
Any race where jimmie cruised to the championship at homestead in 15th or whatever place ;)
 
Mr. Gregory said:
I like you, Slice, but to be honest, that's basically all you've been doing in this thread. Your response to pretty much everyone that has said that they dislike the new points system has been "those are the rules and I like them, and your opinion doesn't matter. Deal with it." You may like the new rules, and that's fine, but that's not exactly the most convincing counter-argument for why the rules should be the way they are now, which is what those of us who disagree with you have been discussing.
Click to expand...
I can see that... but I just see no reason in going over this again and again... the fact is they all start with 0 points and the same rules in February. Whoever is the best will win with the rules. You cant throw out Harvick's finishes because its quite a big possibility that theyre experimenting right now to find what will be good and stable for when it matters. It may suck for some people when it comes down to it if they don't make it but they have the same opportunity to do something about it right now.
 
mreed said:
Can anyone show me where any driver that ever said "it was a good points day" after a race, didn't try to get the best finish he possibly could in that race?
Click to expand...
Agreed, and that was essentially the point that Kyle was making in that interview you posted earlier in this thread.

I like a good, exciting battle for the win as much as any other fan, but I'm not quite understanding the jubilation that some people feel now that most of the drivers don't talk about having good points days anymore. Obviously, the only reason they don't is because under the new rules, the points are essentially meaningless right now. It's not like they didn't care at all about winning in the past and now all of a sudden they do.

Race wins are great, but the biggest prize in our sport is the championship, which used to go to the driver and team that accumulated the most points throughout the season, or from 2004-2013, whoever earned the most points in the last ten races. What was so wrong with drivers being disappointed that they didn't win any given race but still managing to put a positive spin on their day by looking at the bigger picture, which was and always will be the championship?
 
Last edited:
Mr. Gregory said:
Agreed, and that was essentially the point that Kyle was making in that interview you posted earlier in this thread.

I like a good, exciting battle for the win as much as any other fan, but I'm not quite understanding the jubilation that some people feel now that most of the drivers don't talk about having good points days anymore. Obviously, the only reason they don't is because under the new rules, the points are essentially meaningless right now. Race wins are great, but the biggest prize in our sport is the championship, which used to go to the driver and team that accumulated the most points throughout the season, or from 2004-2013, whoever earned the most points in the last ten races. What was so wrong with drivers being disappointed that they didn't win any given race but still managing to put a positive spin on their day by looking at the bigger picture, which was and always will be the championship?
Click to expand...

'Win and you're in' has the potential to remove the incentive to get the best possible finish in every race more than the previous point systems. imo

If a driver has a couple wins and has locked his place in the chase, why push hard for the best possible finish each week?

He can run practice sessions for the rest of the year until the chase starts and the finishes actually count.

The idea that this new point system has somehow made drivers try to win more than they were before is BS.

#nascarhype
 
mreed said:
'Win and you're in' has the potential to remove the incentive to get the best possible finish in every race more than the previous point systems. imo

If a driver has a couple wins and has locked his place in the chase, why push hard for the best possible finish each week?

He can run practice sessions for the rest of the year until the chase starts and the finishes actually count.

The idea that this new point system has somehow made drivers try to win more than they were before is BS.

#nascarhype
Click to expand...
$'s and sponsors. These drivers salaries are based on their winnings in addition to a base pay. Also, I don't think these sponsors are paying these guys to phone it in.

A win and you're in rule is most definitely pushing these drivers to run harder for the win. How could it not? Getting the Championship has to mean everything to these guys and that's pretty much the only way to accomplish it.
 
Over drive the corner because you have a win.... if it sticks.. Nice..Another win!!.... If you wreck and finish 25th.... who cares?! You've got a win already. NEEEXT!!
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
$'s and sponsors. These drivers salaries are based on their winnings in addition to a base pay. Also, I don't think these sponsors are paying these guys to phone it in.

A win and you're in rule is most definitely pushing these drivers to run harder for the win. How could it not? Getting the Championship has to mean everything to these guys and that's pretty much the only way to accomplish it.
Click to expand...

Any driver that could win before the new system, would if possible. The thought that any driver would not try to do all he could possibly do to win a race if he was in contention for the win before this new system is just absurd to me.
 
mreed said:
Any driver that could win before the new system, would if possible. The thought that any driver would not try to do all he could possibly do to win a race if he was in contention for the win before this new system is just absurd to me.
Click to expand...
You see, that's just the thing. It is no longer just that guy close to the front. It's just about every team out there now ready to take whatever outside chance to get that race win. Take Jr's running out of gas example. He already had his win in the books. They took a gamble that they otherwise would not have taken to get the win that day and came up a half lap short. Both Jr and Steve Letarte said as much afterwards. They would have never taken that gamble under the last points system. We can agree to disagree on this but I see and hear a big difference listening to the scanner each and ever week.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Over drive the corner because you have a win.... if it sticks.. Nice..Another win!!.... If you wreck and finish 25th.... who cares?! You've got a win already. NEEEXT!!
Click to expand...
Who cares? The driver for missing victory lane. The guy who pays for these cars. The guys who work on the car who see their victory capable car get destroyed. The team can't use that fast car at another similar shaped track.

A lot of people care. Go ask Jr if he cared about losing Vegas or Darlington in the closing laps. Drivers want those trophies & their name in the record books.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Who cares? The driver for missing victory lane. The guy who pays for these cars. The guys who work on the car who see their victory capable car get destroyed. The team can't use that fast car at another similar shaped track.

A lot of people care. Go ask Jr if he cared about losing Vegas or Darlington in the closing laps. Drivers want those trophies & their name in the record books.
Click to expand...
Okay but long term that 25th is not as big of a detriment as it would have been before or if said driver didn't already have a win on the season.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Okay but long term that 25th is not as big of a detriment as it would have been before or if said driver didn't already have a win on the season.
Click to expand...
We'll see how the rest of Harvick's season goes. He's been feast or famine so far. If he racks up enough DNFs I wonder if he'll be in the top 30. Hell, look at Clint Bowyer's season. If he wins a race & then falls back into bad luck he might not make it
 
ChexOrWrex said:
We'll see how the rest of Harvick's season goes. He's been feast or famine so far. If he racks up enough DNFs I wonder if he'll be in the top 30. Hell, look at Clint Bowyer's season. If he wins a race & then falls back into bad luck he might not make it
Click to expand...
Yup.. I pretty much agree with that. Im curious if they're just experimenting or what because I think he's only finished 2 races he hasn't won. They have to dial it back a bit I think for a bit and worry about staying up in the points. Which adds another interesting dynamic to the season for many teams.
 
Imagine the NFL without a playoff, the best record (tie breakers) wins.

Last year the two drivers with the most wins competed for the Cup in the last race. I figure under any points/playoff system they would have been there in the end. Throw in a wild card and you have a playoff and an unknown factor for more excitement.

I recall a memorable last race when Alan Kulwicki won the Cup. Davey Allison was the points leader and was expected to win when he got caught up in a wreck. Bill Elliot was favored but Kulwicki's team kept better track of race and the dark horse won. That kind of finish is be pretty rare. The new chase will probably create more of those style finishes. Sports is entertainment.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Imagine the NFL without a playoff, the best record (tie breakers) wins.

Last year the two drivers with the most wins competed for the Cup in the last race. I figure under any points/playoff system they would have been there in the end. Throw in a wild card and you have a playoff and an unknown factor for more excitement.

I recall a memorable last race when Alan Kulwicki won the Cup. Davey Allison was the points leader and was expected to win when he got caught up in a wreck. Bill Elliot was favored but Kulwicki's team kept better track of race and the dark horse won. That kind of finish is be pretty rare. The new chase will probably create more of those style finishes. Sports is entertainment.
Click to expand...
I think those moments are much more memorable when they happen, not when they have to be created.

The NFL needs a playoff because of scheduling inequities.
 
Zerkfitting said:
Imagine the NFL without a playoff, the best record (tie breakers) wins.

Last year the two drivers with the most wins competed for the Cup in the last race. I figure under any points/playoff system they would have been there in the end. Throw in a wild card and you have a playoff and an unknown factor for more excitement.

I recall a memorable last race when Alan Kulwicki won the Cup. Davey Allison was the points leader and was expected to win when he got caught up in a wreck. Bill Elliot was favored but Kulwicki's team kept better track of race and the dark horse won. That kind of finish is be pretty rare. The new chase will probably create more of those style finishes. Sports is entertainment.
Click to expand...

In the NFL one team plays another team each week. At the end of the year they have a play off to make sure the best teams from the year are matched up against each other to determine the very best team.
In nascar one team plays(races) every team each race. The best teams are matched up against each other every time they race, so there is no need for a play off in nascar.

If it's created drama you want, how about if nascar throws a caution with 25 laps to go at Homestead, lets all the teams pit for 10 minutes, and place the 4 championship contenders in the first 2 rows for the restart.
They can even turn the lap clock back and restart with 25 laps to go.


Wouldn't that be exciting?!!
 
mreed said:
In the NFL one team plays another team each week. At the end of the year they have a play off to make sure the best teams from the year are matched up against each other to determine the very best team.
In nascar one team plays(races) every team each race. The best teams are matched up against each other every time they race, so there is no need for a play off in nascar.

If it's created drama you want, how about if nascar throws a caution with 25 laps to go at Homestead, lets all the teams pit for 10 minutes, and place the 4 championship contenders in the first 2 rows for the restart.
They can even turn the lap clock back and restart with 25 laps to go.


Wouldn't that be exciting?!!
Click to expand...

Don't give them any ideas.

As far as win and your in, I like it, i just hate all the restart with points, and coming down to the last race.
 
Blaze88 said:
Don't give them any ideas.

As far as win and your in, I like it, i just hate all the restart with points, and coming down to the last race.
Click to expand...

Can't stand the chase, but if there must be one it should include all the race winners from the season.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom