WOW, Eddie Gossage just went there!

Martin as the 1990 champion is one of the most if not the most ridiculous revisionist history claims ever...after Richmond there were 27 races remaining...if Martin couldn't make that it up, he was destined to just finish second again...like he did in 94 and 98 and 02 an 09...what's the excuse for him not winning those seasons? Maybe just not good enough? Facts are tough..

I generally agree with you. Earnhardt may have also raced differently if he had to make up more points on Mark. We know Earnhardt wasn't afraid to race aggressively so I don't see him rolling over if Mark goes into Atlanta with a narrow margin. Hell he may have used the chrome horn on Mark.

But we've gone over this with @AndyMarquisLive multiple times :p
 
With how everyone says “they would have raced different” under different formats etc, I bet Dale would have “points raced” a little bit more.
Mark was great. Any other year with he would have won with that season. The same could be said many times for Jeff Gordon for example vs JJ.

But to me Mark was going up against the GOAT, just as many others have said about Jeff.

It happens. I could very well be here in 20 more years saying the same thing about Kyle Larson trying to win #2 going up against Byron this weekend.

Who knows? It happens.
That’s why we watch.

Someday, today will be the good ol days we looks back on just like the 90s-00s now.

We are watching it unfold. The original unfiltered version of today.
 
He had an illegal carburetor spacer and was penalized according to the rules.
Agreed, except that the rule was absolutely non-sensical in the first place, and then there's the fact that the spacer was there in place for all to see and passed inspection pre race, and it took Richard Childress to point it out to NASCAR officials. This would have been a good time for NASCAR to to swallow the whistle and either change the rule or just say, don't bring it back.
 
This.

Dennis is a negative a**hole who panders to the most negative elements of the fanbase. But he’s neck and neck with Mark Martin as the best driver to have never won a championship.
As most know, I don't like Denny at all and smile with his every failure, but what some would call pandering might just be the truth sometimes, even if most are loathe to admit it. My experience has been that unpopular opinions are right about as often as popular ones.
 
Agreed, except that the rule was absolutely non-sensical in the first place, and then there's the fact that the spacer was there in place for all to see and passed inspection pre race, and it took Richard Childress to point it out to NASCAR officials. This would have been a good time for NASCAR to to swallow the whistle and either change the rule or just say, don't bring it back.
Nonsensical or not it was still broken. Also I've never seen a race car fail for something that makes a car slower, so likely they felt making it that way provided an advantage

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Nonsensical or not it was still broken. Also I've never seen a race car fail for something that makes a car slower, so likely they felt making it that way provided an advantage

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According to Steve Hmiel, it was bolted on because it was a last minute decision to get the air cleaner closer to the hood and match up with the cowl better. Hmiel claims Robin Pemberton requested the spacer, and Jack had the engine shop in Lavonia MI make it and Jack brought it to the track on the plane. Hmiel claims he had no idea it was even on the car. If they would have had time to weld it on instead of bolting it, it would not have been a penalty at all. I am certainly no fan of Jack Roush, but I have never seen any evidence of an intention to actively circumvent the rules, and I contend, as do many that the rule was stupid in the first place. The only issue with a bolt on spacer would be if it created an air leak below the throttle bores. Not normally an actual issue on a unrestricted engine. If it had happened at Daytona or Talladega, I would be far more skeptical. Hmiel claims that Jack had pissed off NASCAR during inspections at Daytona the previous week, and they (as they were known to do) wanted to make an example of him. Even at that, Hmiel claims that Richard Childress is actually the one that pointed it out to NASCAR officials post race.
 
Agreed, except that the rule was absolutely non-sensical in the first place, and then there's the fact that the spacer was there in place for all to see and passed inspection pre race, and it took Richard Childress to point it out to NASCAR officials. This would have been a good time for NASCAR to to swallow the whistle and either change the rule or just say, don't bring it back.
I remember there was some some conversation at the time that the spacer didn't provide any advantage. I will not claim to understand engines and building HP as well as some others but I have always believed a high rise intake was beneficial with the higher rpms. In any case I didnt see the big deal aside from it being a violation of the rules and I just accepted the reports at face value

I am not sure if I can articulate my thoughts well enough but I just naturally push back against the Mark Martin victim or 2nd place guy narrative. My cringe is not directed at you it is just a needed part of the conversation in my opinion.

Martin has always been iconic to me going back to when I first read about him as a 16 year or 17 year old kid doing well in the ASA series and winning the championship at 19 years old. I believe the ASA regulars in those days were some of the best in the world.

I also believe he was the foundation for Jack Roush's sucessful entry and original sucess into the then Winston Cup Series.

A cup championship would have been good for the resume but I still couldn't imagine respecting him or believing he would be any more accomplished than I already do.
 
I remember there was some some conversation at the time that the spacer didn't provide any advantage. I will not claim to understand engines and building HP as well as some others but I have always believed a high rise intake was beneficial with the higher rpms. In any case I didnt see the big deal aside from it being a violation of the rules and I just accepted the reports at face value

You are correct that a high rise intake can make more top end power, but from a practical standpoint, it makes not one bit of difference whether the spacer was welded on (legal) or bolted on (illegal).
 
You betcha, ain't it wonderful !! Made my day for sure, best part of the whole race. :punkrocke
I know I couldn't quit laughing. He said mechanical failure. MRN reported he hit the wall pretty hard earlier before he finished it off the second time. I'll go with the MRN story. Watching him fade at Martinsville wasn't as fun, but when he fell back away from potentialy screwing up the 12's day it wasn't bad.
 
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Came across this. Seems like this thread is a fitting place
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I want to say I am surprised but I should know better that we got a whole page of this thread with discussion of something that happened 33 years ago. Color me impressed
 
I want to say I am surprised but I should know better that we got a whole page of this thread with discussion of something that happened 33 years ago. Color me impressed
I thank Eddie Gossage has had the Verbal Diarrhea for longer than 33 years (probably born with it).Worse than any of the gerbils, he just does not have the constant hot mic amplifying his sickness.
 
I value Eddie's opinion at the same level that I value Kyle Petty's. Which is none at all. Just a bunch of never-has-been just jawing to hear themselves talk.
 
Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it....
eh, I'll borrow a quote from former Chicago Bears coach, Mike Ditka: " I don't believe in living in the past. Living in the past is for cowards. If you live in the past, you die in the past."
 
I was with you until the Kyle Petty part.....

c'est la vie

I bet Kyle has more cup wins than you?

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Yes, he has 8 wins, highest he finished in points was 5th in 1992, 1993, and his career average finish is 23.3. I'm sure his "hot takes" are super relevant and valuable as a mid-pack driver. 😆
:rolleyes:
 
c'est la vie



Yes, he has 8 wins, highest he finished in points was 5th in 1992, 1993, and his career average finish is 23.3. I'm sure his "hot takes" are super relevant and valuable as a mid-pack driver. 😆
:rolleyes:
I dont equate great driving to great gerbiling. One doesnt have to be a great driver to be great in the booth
 
c'est la vie



Yes, he has 8 wins, highest he finished in points was 5th in 1992, 1993, and his career average finish is 23.3. I'm sure his "hot takes" are super relevant and valuable as a mid-pack driver.
:rolleyes:
Well he did grow up in and was involved in one of the most iconic racing families in stock car history.

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c'est la vie



Yes, he has 8 wins, highest he finished in points was 5th in 1992, 1993, and his career average finish is 23.3. I'm sure his "hot takes" are super relevant and valuable as a mid-pack driver. 😆
:rolleyes:
Petty and Gossage both have forgotten more than you know about the racing business. I don't agree with everything they say, but I pay more attention to what they say than a whole lot of stuff posted here.
 
It doesn't matter as you are incorrect either way...
The second screw job was in the fall Charlotte race when the greatest driver ever stupedly left the pits with no lugnuts on the left side tires. Nascar blantantly let the 3 crew take tires, jack and a 4 way lug wrench down to turn 1 and fix their screwup. Anyone else and it would have been put on a rollback.
 
The second screw job was in the fall Charlotte race when the greatest driver ever stupedly left the pits with no lugnuts on the left side tires. Nascar blantantly let the 3 crew take tires, jack and a 4 way lug wrench down to turn 1 and fix their screwup. Anyone else and it would have been put on a rollback.
Or the end of pit road...

  • During a caution, Dale Earnhardt, who was not running well, lost all four tires at the end of pit road after a pit stop (communication mix-up, lug nuts). His crew ran down pit lane with jacks and got him back on all fours but he lost a few laps. Mark Martin had a chance to capitalize on the misfortune but ended up losing a cylinder and finished 14th, 3 laps down.
The Martin excuse makers sure try hard...
 
Or the end of pit road...

  • During a caution, Dale Earnhardt, who was not running well, lost all four tires at the end of pit road after a pit stop (communication mix-up, lug nuts). His crew ran down pit lane with jacks and got him back on all fours but he lost a few laps. Mark Martin had a chance to capitalize on the misfortune but ended up losing a cylinder and finished 14th, 3 laps down.
The Martin excuse makers sure try hard...
Actually, I found the video...it was on the apron of turn 1
 
Or the end of pit road...

  • During a caution, Dale Earnhardt, who was not running well, lost all four tires at the end of pit road after a pit stop (communication mix-up, lug nuts). His crew ran down pit lane with jacks and got him back on all fours but he lost a few laps. Mark Martin had a chance to capitalize on the misfortune but ended up losing a cylinder and finished 14th, 3 laps down.
The Martin excuse makers sure try hard...
Earnhardt finished 25th as well and 17 laps ahead of the next car. I doubt that any gained any positions by due to the crew changing his tires.
I also think some assumptions are in play. The officiating was not as tight and probably less consistent a lot of things were allowed or missed back on the day.
 
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