The New Racing Team Alliance

Revman said:
I am not trying to be an a**hole, but how in the hell is this different from CART? Take these high rollers, put them into a competitive environment.....Their model is to leave with one winner. Collaboration is not their gig. F1 works because there is a Czar. NASCAR works because of Mr. France's legacy. I agree with you that Brian is lost, but the alternative could be disaster. One of these big players gets pissed, and leaves the table, you have problems.
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Brian only wants one winner too, just look at the souvenir sales. Apart from Nascars greed and collections there is absolutely no reason the teams cannot make huge profits.
If Brian was just a trust fund baby it would be alright. Unfortunately he is an idiot that operates like a spiteful dictator, an insecure punisher of any naysayers. The drivers talk like programed yes men, and Brian loves it, he is a fool with a lot of power and he needs to be taken down.

Leaving him alone or allowing him to continue will only make matters worse .

But I am only dreaming. The France empire is not at risk, Nascars power has never been as splintered as open wheel, nor has it been built around a single concentric event like Indy. Brian is secure and his lackies will keep their knee pads on, and they will vote his sorry ass into the hall on the first ballet.

You have nothing to worry about, the France portfolio will continue to grow exponentialy more the declining quality. Be happy you won.
 
From the USA Today Q&A with Kaufman
Q: So this isn't about picking a fight but pursuing a better business model?
A: I think that would be a good tagline.

---
In my experience, the more you insist you aren't picking a fight, the more likely it is that's exactly what you're planning to do.

Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a big enough rock.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Thanks man

And I wonder if a split would cause Bruton to build tracks elsewhere. He owns Atlanta, Bristol, Charlotte, Kentucky, Las Vegas, New Hampshire, North Wilkesboro, Sonoma and Texas. Even if you give each track two races, you only get 18 races. Exclude North Wilkesboro and that number shrinks to 16. How do you fill the gap to get a decently long season?

They could possibly get Rockingham and Pocono onto the calendar, which gets you to 20 races. Road America would be a solid pickup too.
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They don't even need a full schedule. Most tracks shouldn't have two dates to begin with, and having an event almost every week from February through November has to be very costly itself. A revamped schedule with less intermediates and superspeedways could also be less costly by reducing the need for engine and aerodynamic R&D.
 
FLRacingFan said:
They don't even need a full schedule. Most tracks shouldn't have two dates to begin with, and having an event almost every week from February through November has to be very costly itself. A revamped schedule with less intermediates and superspeedways could also be less costly by reducing the need for engine and aerodynamic R&D.
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I would aim for at least 20 races. Anything less than that and you risk looking bush league. It would be interesting to see what happens if you start the season on Memorial Day weekend with the Coca Cola 600 though.
 
StoneTown said:
Seems like Kaufman is the driving force behind this. He's still angry at how Nascar threw MWR under the bus and almost killed his team. He wants to figure out how to get more leverage so Nascar can never do anything like that again.
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Last July Waltrip actually told FOXSports.com that their business model doesn't work without them making the Chase. I don't doubt that pissed them off.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Last July Waltrip actually told FOXSports.com that their business model doesn't work without them making the Chase. I don't doubt that pissed them off.
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Well theres even more proof to believe that MWR spingate was intentional.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Did I miss something? This thread started with the announcement that some of the big teams would start sharing expenses and work on R&D together. Now it's about the end of Brian France, a split of NASCAR, and...how did Burton Smith get into the mix???

Seriously, its been 8 hours, we know nothing, and y'all are predicting gloom & doom.
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When (not if) they get to discussions about splitting TV revenue and merchandise revenue I suspect things will get a little contentious. I was surprised to read the merchandise article last week and find out the teams get only 10% of that money.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The fact that Kaufmann got so many people on board shows that the garage wasn't too happy with how the MWR situation was handled either.
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I agree, every team knew it could have been them. MWR almost went out of business due to a panicked reaction by France and Nascar in the face of a media storm.
 
i still think that starting that chase crap is the root of all the problems in Nascar. hope this doesn't turn out to be just about money, and not better racing.
 
kauffman is last guy who'd try owner coup d'etat.....w/o them havin nascar board control as well.
w/ his ws experience .....he knows how that'd turn out.
whole ship would sink......w/ owners on it !
future buyout ??? who knows ?

bruton was makin tons of $$ ........buyin tracks......buildin new grandstands .....etc .....
...when he hatched new league crap long ago.
today......he can't fill frontstretch ! .....nor can france tracks either !
jeez.......together...they can't even operate profitable swag biz !

new owner org may gain a little leverage w/ nascar .....in baby steps .

but ain't nobody lookin ta kill $ 8.2 billion /10 yr tv golden goose at this point .
 
The Nature Boy said:
I would aim for at least 20 races. Anything less than that and you risk looking bush league.
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As far as I know, most major racing series have roughly that many events, sometimes less. NASCAR is pretty much the anomaly in that regard so I don't think that would be an issue. As long as they add races because they'll help the product that's cool, rather than just adding races to inflate and dilute the schedule.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The fact that Kaufmann got so many people on board shows that the garage wasn't too happy with how the MWR situation was handled either.
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Interesting. Hadn't thought about that angle. Seriously, why the hell would Penske et al. hook their wagon to a perceived shmuck who tried to bring the integrity of the series down. Wow. How stupid does NAPA look now? Better step carefully Mr. H.--you could be next!
 
Greg said:
Brian only wants one winner too, just look at the souvenir sales. Apart from Nascars greed and collections there is absolutely no reason the teams cannot make huge profits.
If Brian was just a trust fund baby it would be alright. Unfortunately he is an idiot that operates like a spiteful dictator, an insecure punisher of any naysayers. The drivers talk like programed yes men, and Brian loves it, he is a fool with a lot of power and he needs to be taken down.

Leaving him alone or allowing him to continue will only make matters worse .

But I am only dreaming. The France empire is not at risk, Nascars power has never been as splintered as open wheel, nor has it been built around a single concentric event like Indy. Brian is secure and his lackies will keep their knee pads on, and they will vote his sorry ass into the hall on the first ballet.

You have nothing to worry about, the France portfolio will continue to grow exponentialy more the declining quality. Be happy you won.
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Great post....but I'm not looking for France to win. I just don't think that the direction this could go would work, and leave us in worse shape than we are in. I freakin' loved CART in its heyday. When spending was completely out of control, it was like F1. Couldn't last.
 
Greg said:
Brian only wants one winner too, just look at the souvenir sales. Apart from Nascars greed and collections there is absolutely no reason the teams cannot make huge profits.
If Brian was just a trust fund baby it would be alright. Unfortunately he is an idiot that operates like a spiteful dictator, an insecure punisher of any naysayers. The drivers talk like programed yes men, and Brian loves it, he is a fool with a lot of power and he needs to be taken down.

Leaving him alone or allowing him to continue will only make matters worse .

But I am only dreaming. The France empire is not at risk, Nascars power has never been as splintered as open wheel, nor has it been built around a single concentric event like Indy. Brian is secure and his lackies will keep their knee pads on, and they will vote his sorry ass into the hall on the first ballet.

You have nothing to worry about, the France portfolio will continue to grow exponentialy more the declining quality. Be happy you won.
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Revman said:
Great post....but
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Sounds alot like this to me -

"Wait, we just spent all this money on a brand new car, and now you want us to build new engines? You're outta your mind Nascar." - Sincerely, The Team Owners.
 
Many good replies so far. I think by joining forces the alliance should be able to get a much better deal on insurance and hotels. Also on transportation by contracting with a airline instead of every team having their own jet(s).
I don't know how much input owners have when brain & co. decide to make a change to make racing better...
<choke> I can envision a big dispute over costly car changes brain & co, mandates.

We all know how nascar feels about unions. This alliance may not be named a union but it will function as one.
 
BenzTech99 said:
Sounds alot like this to me -

"Wait, we just spent all this money on a brand new car, and now you want us to build new engines? You're outta your mind Nascar." - Sincerely, The Team Owners.
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Thinking that you are absolutely correct here. Why won't Kauffman just say that?
 
Bobw said:
Many good replies so far. I think by joining forces the alliance should be able to get a much better deal on insurance and hotels. Also on transportation by contracting with a airline instead of every team having their own jet(s).
I don't know how much input owners have when brain & co. decide to make a change to make racing better...
<choke> I can envision a big dispute over costly car changes brain & co, mandates.

We all know how nascar feels about unions. This alliance may not be named a union but it will function as one.
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Guess which team had to give up its jets? Might be that one Kauffman runs. This isn't about buying power with hotels, insurance, etc.--that stuff is chump change to these players. This is about the one thing more important than money to these guys--POWER. This is ugly.
 
BenzTech99 said:
Probably wants to get everything finalized before NASCAR puts a stop to it.
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Then why run your mouth now? This is a shot across the bow. I do not like this. I cannot stress this enough.....The owner of the team accused of fixing the Chase is running the show here. How in the hell did he get the respect of the garage all of a sudden? Maybe the owners didn't feel the same way as NASCAR in regard to Richmond of last year?

You don't let a bunch of kids on a playground make up the rules? Why? Because the biggest badass gets his way. Why is that bad? Because all of the other kids go home, and the badass is left alone. Pretty soon, he won't play anymore.

If you really wanted to make a statement, why the hell isn't Mr. Hendrick running this?

Anybody know if this kind of thing has ever worked in racing?
 
I'm not ready to jump to the conclusion that there will be some kind of split in the future, but I don't believe for a second that this is just about hotel rates and cheaper parts. Once the teams get their discount at the Super 8 squared away, I think their next order of business will be getting a bigger share of the TV money. Especially with sponsorship dollars getting harder to come by, I think this will be a major sticking point for the teams involved.
 
ToyYoda said:
I'm not ready to jump to the conclusion that there will be some kind of split in the future, but I don't believe for a second that this is just about hotel rates and cheaper parts. Once the teams get their discount at the Super 8 squared away, I think their next order of business will be getting a bigger share of the TV money. Especially with sponsorship dollars getting harder to come by, I think this will be a major sticking point for the teams involved.
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Relationships begin to crumble over money, and are finished searching for the power to get it.
 
Matthew2470 said:
NASCAR asked for this 2 years ago. Why would they put a stop to it?
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I am aware that NASCAR asked the owners to get together on the bs that Kauffman spewed, but I don't think they asked the owners to get organized and challenge the sanctioning body.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
They can make suggestions but that's about it. They're all replaceable.
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I don't see them as replaceable. It's difficult enough to get a full year full sponsorship. I do not see a line out the door of buyers waving cash to buy a team.

brain & co come out with new rules mandating one thing or another and who pays? Not nascar.
Do owners get a say? Offer a better way?

Why hasn't nascar installed SAFER barriers at every track at every possible location a car can hit?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I don't see where this group of owners will ever be able to dictate anything when it comes to NASCAR and how it's run. They can make suggestions but that's about it. They're all replaceable.
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Who would replace them? It ain't gonna be anybody from Nationwide, as all the best teams there are owned by the RTA guys. The Truck Series teams maybe?
 
ToyYoda said:
Who would replace them? It ain't gonna be anybody from Nationwide, as all the best teams there are owned by the RTA guys. The Truck Series teams maybe?
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If they get traction, they will blow themselves up, and be replaced by whatever is left. Possibly Nationwide teams. Look what happened with the CART IRL split. CART had **** for teams after the big players left. It lasts for a little while, then fades.
 
Revman said:
If they get traction, they will blow themselves up, and be replaced by whatever is left. Possibly Nationwide teams. Look what happened with the CART IRL split. CART had **** for teams after the big players left. It lasts for a little while, then fades.
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"Ladies and gentlemen, give a warm welcome for your 2016 Sprint Cup Champion, John Wes Townley!" :D
 
Everyone is replaceable. Other owners would field teams if it ever came to that but to tell the truth we don't even know what the heck this is all about yet. There is a lot of speculation but no real answers. I was only commenting on the inferences that this group is going to start demanding something of the sanctioning body.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
What this alliance is, or isn't, we don't know. I'm not even going to speculate. I'm just going to wait --- it will all come to light sooner or later.
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You are correct, but there are some things operating here that are extremely interesting....1) This Alliance was created exclusive of NASCAR, 2) The Alliance was created to get leverage of some sort against something (NASCAR)---nobody cares about hotel/travel or insurance costs--small peanuts to big players, 3) Why is Rob Kauffman leading the charge--Wasn't he part of the team that "embarrassed" NASCAR?--or---Should we now see NASCAR as separate from The Alliance--Maybe the owners never felt the way NASCAR did?, 4) All of this shows up as the new TV contract is getting ready to come into play. I do not believe that you do press releases for discussion groups.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I guess I really don't understand why it matters who it is. It seems like all involved are in agreement. That's probably all that matters.
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Why would all of the parties involve trust the guy that was part of a team that allegedly tried to screw the Chase?
 
Revman said:
Why would all of the parties involve trust the guy that was part of a team that allegedly tried to screw the Chase?
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No way for me or anyone else here could give you that answer. They don't have any issues with it I guess. That's their call.
 
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