Final Four

Truex already got his damn trophy for having the best car for the regular season. Just because he acted like a spoiled brat and didn't celebrate that is his problem. Now he is in the playoffs, so are three others. Turn the damn page. The final four ran hard to get there. Who ever shows up with the best car thru whatever happens gets the cup. Bingo.
 
Simple Fan said:
It's not fake excitement, Chase/Denny was real and a natural result of this format that you probably wouldn't have got under the old system. Truex would already have it locked up and the last couple of races would be meaningless.
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Yeh Truex should be the champion already, he is deserving of it now he could lose it very easily, but yeh I get it....create a little drama where normally there wouldn't be, heaven forbid he locked up the championship with 3 races to go! You really think this has improved the quality of Nascar, because i have news for you it hasn't. Just look at all the empty seats on sunday and that will give your answer.
 
StandOnIt said:
Truex already got his damn trophy for having the best car for the regular season. Just because he acted like a spoiled brat and didn't celebrate that is his problem. Now he is in the playoffs, so are three others. Turn the damn page. The final four ran hard to get there. Who ever shows up with the best car thru whatever happens gets the cup. Bingo.
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It's not difficult to see how some fans can find the current made for television format favorable over the pre-Chase Era. All elimination style formats are exciting by design. At the same time, you've got to somewhat understand how many of us can look at the same format finding fault. In this fans eyes, the predictable game #7 moment in lieu of crowning the best driver over the entire course of the season is a bad trade-off. Try as I might, I can't look at today's champion in the same light as pre-2004. They are completely incomparable. I hate that that part of the sport is lost. That's my biggest problem with this format.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
It's not difficult to see how some fans can find the current made for television format favorable over the pre-Chase Era. All elimination style formats are exciting by design. At the same time, you've got to somewhat understand how many of us can look at the same format finding fault. In this fans eyes, the predictable game #7 moment in lieu of crowning the best driver over the entire course of the season is a bad trade-off. Try as I might, I can't look at today's champion in the same light as pre-2004. They are completely incomparable. I hate that that part of the sport is lost. That's my biggest problem with this format.
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Bingo...very well said...thank you, great post.
 
My memory is getting feeble, but this whole debate about "The Old Way" versus "The New Way" sounds vaguely familiar. I could swear we discussed this topic before in another thread somewhere. I will try to do a search to find it... :oops:
 
LewTheShoe said:
My memory is getting feeble, but this whole debate about "The Old Way" versus "The New Way" sounds vaguely familiar. I could swear we discussed this topic before in another thread somewhere. I will try to do a search to find it... :oops:
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About 10 times
 
I'm pretty sure the history books will say regular season champion and cup champion. Of course that isn't going to change anything for some.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
You have some good points buddy. But I don’t want a champion crowned 2-3 weeks before the year is over
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It all depends on what criteria you want to use to determine a champion:
  • Who consistently performs strong over the course of the season, regardless of how few / no wins he or she has?
  • Who has the most wins, regardless of other criteria?
  • Who gets hot at the end of the year / playoff period, regardless of how they made it to the playoffs?
  • Who gets ranked highest by a bunch of sports writers (the absolute worst method)?
I find each individual race exciting on its own, with no regard to championship implications. There are some events that I can watch and enjoy without knowing anything about either teams' standings, history, or league playoff contenders. A good race / game / match is a good one regardless. A championship final that's a blowout will still suck, even it it's the underdog demolishing the favored team. Look at the number of Super Bowls that are effectively over at the half, or multi-game series that include only the minimum number of games.
 
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LewTheShoe said:
My memory is getting feeble, but this whole debate about "The Old Way" versus "The New Way" sounds vaguely familiar. I could swear we discussed this topic before in another thread somewhere. I will try to do a search to find it... :oops:
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Don't overload your search engine.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Yeh Truex should be the champion already, he is deserving of it now he could lose it very easily, but yeh I get it....create a little drama where normally there wouldn't be, heaven forbid he locked up the championship with 3 races to go! You really think this has improved the quality of Nascar, because i have news for you it hasn't. Just look at all the empty seats on sunday and that will give your answer.
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Just deal with change bruh!!! Things will not always be the same. Whining and complaining is not gonna do a thing. I have type 1 diabetes and I never whine and complain about. Deal with it!
 
Musrat#2 said:
Just deal with change bruh!!! Things will not always be the same. Whining and complaining is not gonna do a thing. I have type 1 diabetes and I never whine and complain about. Deal with it!
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This is sports, not a physical condition that requires constant management. Disagreeing is part of the enjoyment. Deal with that.
 
Musrat#2 said:
Just deal with change bruh!!! Things will not always be the same. Whining and complaining is not gonna do a thing. I have type 1 diabetes and I never whine and complain about. Deal with it!
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I myself don't want to shield the whining type individual from having the most chances possible to whine. I want to help them be a miserable as possible to achieve their goal. Keep being positive, it helps them. ;)
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I've made these points before, but I'll try again.

Teams in stick and ball sports don't play every single other team every single week. Stick and ball sports need playoffs because their schedules don't permit everyone to play everyone even a single time. For example, the Super Bowl champion will face at most only 16 of the 31 other teams in the NFL, likely less depending on how the playoff pairings shake out. It has to be assumed that the teams with the best records are capable of beating everyone in their conferences because the schedule doesn't permit it to be actually proven. Even then, the division champions get in regardless of their records, occasionally resulting in teams with .500 records or worse advancing to the playoffs while teams with better records may be done for the year.

In NASCAR, everyone plays everyone else every single week. You don't need a playoff because the drivers with the highest points have already demonstrated they're consistently better than the rest.
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I get your point but there is still a need for a playoff when you have to possibility of the Championship being won before Homestead. No reason to have a meaningless race. That's the flaw of the old system.
 
Simple Fan said:
I get your point but there is still a need for a playoff when you have to possibility of the Championship being won before Homestead. No reason to have a meaningless race. That's the flaw of the old system.
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I guess that depends on how you define 'meaningless'. Drivers are going to race. Somebody's going to win and take home a check and a trophy. Final points standings are going to change throughout the field, even if the top position isn't. I'm going to be entertained by the action, more than I would most other televised options that afternoon.

There are two races on the schedule that don't award any points and don't factor into the championship, but people still enjoy watching them. (Disclosure: I don't personally like the All-Star race but that's because of the format, not because it's 'meaningless'.)

EDIT: 'Meaningless' are those late-season games in sports with playoffs, where a team has a playoff berth locked up, nothing left to gain, and decides to trade resting its regular starting players for a loss. Unlike drivers in a race after the title is decided, those guys aren't even trying; they've actively decided to accept losing.
 
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zevious said:
With the dominance that Truex's team has had this year, they should be the champions. That said, the format is what it is and if they don't win, then they didn't put the whole season together to make it happen. That's all.
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So a driver with no wins and points himself to Homestead then comes in 5th ahead of the other finalists has the whole season put together??
I can't figure that one out.
 
StandOnIt said:
Truex already got his damn trophy for having the best car for the regular season. Just because he acted like a spoiled brat and didn't celebrate that is his problem. Now he is in the playoffs, so are three others. Turn the damn page. The final four ran hard to get there. Who ever shows up with the best car thru whatever happens gets the cup. Bingo.
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Team Penske said:
So a driver with no wins and points himself to Homestead then comes in 5th ahead of the other finalists has the whole season put together??
I can't figure that one out.
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hope this helps you grasp it. I know there are some that will do their best to chew the corners off of it, but it is what it is.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I guess that depends on how you define 'meaningless'. Drivers are going to race. Somebody's going to win and take home a check and a trophy. Final points standings are going to change throughout the field, even if the top position isn't. I'm going to be entertained by the action, more than I would most other televised options that afternoon.

There are two races on the schedule that don't award any points and don't factor into the championship, but people still enjoy watching them. (Disclosure: I don't personally like the All-Star race but that's because of the format, not because it's 'meaningless'.)

EDIT: 'Meaningless' are those late-season games in sports with playoffs, where a team has a playoff berth locked up, nothing left to gain, and decides to trade resting its regular starting players for a loss. Unlike drivers in a race after the title is decided, those guys aren't even trying; they've actively decided to accept losing.
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Here's the thing, I could care less who finished 2nd to 40th in the final points standings. It's all about winning and this system rewards that. Which is the way it should be. I'm sure people would enjoy the race had Truex already wraped it up but its still meaningless. It'd be like Alabama playing another game after winning a national championship, which would just be weird.
 
Mopardh9 said:
You really think this has improved the quality of Nascar, because i have news for you it hasn't. Just look at all the empty seats on sunday and that will give your answer.
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For me it has, enjoy this format way better than the old system and even the Chase format. I've watched alot more of the Trucks and Xfinity since they adopted the playoff format as well.
 
Betting odds for the championship according to VegasInsider...

Martin Truex Jr. 7/4
Kyle Busch 2/1
Kevin Harvick 5/2
Brad Keselowski 4/1

After adjusting out the 18.3% vig, the implied win probabilities are...

Martin Truex Jr. 30.7% probability to win.
Kyle Busch 28.2% probability.
Kevin Harvick 24.2% probability.
Brad Keselowski 16.9% probability.

I'm not a betting man, but if I were, I'd want longer odds than shown to place a bet on Kez. I might be enticed by 8/1, but would pass at 4/1.
 
Simple Fan said:
I get your point but there is still a need for a playoff when you have to possibility of the Championship being won before Homestead. No reason to have a meaningless race. That's the flaw of the old system.
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Why? Really it's if the championship is settled before Homestead, the world isn't going to end.
 
2 Sweet said:
Because it's racing and the championship isn't the only thing that matters. This isn't football
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What else matters? If a guy isn't trying to win a championship then I'd have to question why they are racing. Not football but still a competition and all that matters is winning. Moral victories are cool and all but in the end they still lost.
 
Simple Fan said:
What else matters? If a guy isn't trying to win a championship then I'd have to question why they are racing. Not football but still a competition and all that matters is winning. Moral victories are cool and all but in the end they still lost.
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If that's the case, how come the rest of the field doesn't quit once the playoffs start? Riddle me that
 
2 Sweet said:
If that's the case, how come the rest of the field doesn't quit once the playoffs start? Riddle me that
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Do I really have to explain that? There are multiple reasons why. I'll say this, a race a run with 40 drivers same as a football game is played by 22 players. Racing is different than other sports in its an individual sport but in the end it's still a competition and everyone wants to win.
 
Simple Fan said:
Do I really have to explain that? There are multiple reasons why. I'll say this, a race a run with 40 drivers same as a football game is played by 22 players. Racing is different than other sports in its an individual sport but in the end it's still a competition and everyone wants to win.
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Huh?

There are 6-8 teams that have a realistic shot of winning a championship, and maybe 16 that have a shot at winning a race in a given season, yet 40 still show up to race every Sunday. Each lone race is an event worth celebrating. Why does your boy Kyle Busch bother racing in Xfinity and Trucks part time? He can't win a championship, yet he does it anyway. Imagine that!

Look, you have only been a fan for a couple years, I get it. You don't understand/appreciate the history of motorsports and that's fine. Just try and keep an open mind when 95% of the long time fans are telling you that the "old way" was pretty damn good. I'm 31 years old, I'm not some old timer stuck in the past, and I'm telling you that the success of NASCAR doesn't absolutely depend on a close championship battle every year in order to survive. Sometimes a race can be enjoyable simply because it's a race, nothing more. These stick and ball comparisons are ridiculous.
 
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