How much longer for 7 Time?

Team Penske said:
I agree. His whole career was doing better than his car was capable. I think that is why RCR
was never a top team as far as equipment goes.
I wish he had lived long enough to do one season in his own DEI car.
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as we see now and I think we can all agree first Dale and then to a certain extent Harvick made RCR elite.
 
Turtle84 said:
Anything's possible, I respect those possibilities. I just don't see it likely. Him making a car change and hitting the lotto on a dominating ride like Mark did, that ride at least was able to go to work for Mark. I don't see them rebuilding to an elite ride on the 48 with him in it. This package is a real factor that kills his driving style worse than Harvick imo, he likes a loose race car not a glued tight race car with aero effects on passing, sure he could stay out on tires and hope to hold someone off, but that's not anywhere close to what he used to be. Kenseth binking Phoenix on his way out, I could see that happening as a parting gift for JJ somewhere, or even Jeff's Martinsville playoff swan song, Kenseth's top 2 dominant season long in the yellow dollar general car I don't think so though...

What are the odds set at for him getting a win in the next season and a half? +100 even money?....not that great...I'd snap accept a bet he doesn't win this season. And snap accept he doesn't get 2 wins from now till the end of 2020.

View attachment 41019
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So do you think the 48 team/HMS is the problem or do you think it’s Jimmie’s ability as to why he hasn’t won in a while? You say it’s the aero package but the statement I highlighted makes me wonder what your angle is on this.
 
Revman said:
I want him to stay until Chevy gets their sh!t together, win 8 races, and then walk out. He isn't done. Not close. Period.
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I think Jimmie is past prime as a driver, but good enough to win races. However, I don't think he "isn't close". JJ gets as excited about win #75 as he does win #1, so there's no doubt he's got that Tom Brady competitive fire in him. I think if the cars get competitive, we may see that.

That said, Jimmie's kids are getting older. He ran the Boston Marathon. That takes A LOT of training. I don't think his focus is on cup racing as much as it was. He probably wants to go out on top, but I think he's already looking forward to the next chapter of his life. Maybe when he retires, he'll get the unanimous respect he deserves

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BobbyFord said:
But he’s no longer a threat to win every week. I’d have figured he’d still be winning races at his age.
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That would imply that he WAS a threat to win... Which contradicts what you have previously said ;)

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BobbyFord said:
But he’s no longer a threat to win every week. I’d have figured he’d still be winning races at his age.
Click to expand...

Me too, but I never imagined HMS would give him and his teammates cars as bad as they have been lately.
 
jaqua19 said:
I think Jimmie is past prime as a driver, but good enough to win races. However, I don't think he "isn't close". JJ gets as excited about win #75 as he does win #1, so there's no doubt he's got that Tom Brady competitive fire in him. I think if the cars get competitive, we may see that.

That said, Jimmie's kids are getting older. He ran the Boston Marathon. That takes A LOT of training. I don't think his focus is on cup racing as much as it was. He probably wants to go out on top, but I think he's already looking forward to the next chapter of his life. Maybe when he retires, he'll get the unanimous respect he deserves

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Excellent post. The dude is dynamic, and pretty damn authentic. I think if he didn't have so much else in his life, physically and mentally he would have several years left, but given that he is about family, fitness, etc.....and that little detail that he has won so many times, you do have to ask the question about what keeps him motivated. I feel like if he rallies around the "me against everybody who thinks I'm done" thing, we could see #8, but to your point...the window is closing.
 
Poor Jimmy, he spent his whole career racing one man (JG) and he no longer can defete Jeff on the track. Sad but maybe he needs a new goal to focus his smarts and energies on.
 
Formerjackman said:
Me too, but I never imagined HMS would give him and his teammates cars as bad as they have been lately.
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I wonder if Chevy is set up to give support in the way Toyota and Ford does. They have dropped it all in Hendrick's lap, and those cars are bad IMO. I think that three failing pre-race tech suggests that they are getting very aggressive (desperate) set ups.....reminds me of some of the stuff MY Toyotas were trying in 2014.
 
Revman said:
I wonder if Chevy is set up to give support in the way Toyota and Ford does. They have dropped it all in Hendrick's lap, and those cars are bad IMO. I think that three failing pre-race tech suggests that they are getting very aggressive (desperate) set ups.....reminds me of some of the stuff MY Toyotas were trying in 2014.
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Chase"s right wheel had so much camber it reminded me of what poor teams did to make the car turn. Now I am starting to think Chad better get back to tuning up some new cheating tricks.
 
Team Penske said:
Chase"s right wheel had so much camber it reminded me of what poor teams did to make the car turn. Now I am starting to think Chad better get back to tuning up some new cheating tricks.
Click to expand...

Freaking exactly.....I remember thinking the same thing at times on MY Toyotas in 2014. I thought the damn thing was broken. In regard to Chad....William is running pretty well.....and he did fail pre-race.....:D
 
Revman said:
Excellent post. The dude is dynamic, and pretty damn authentic. I think if he didn't have so much else in his life, physically and mentally he would have several years left, but given that he is about family, fitness, etc.....and that little detail that he has won so many times, you do have to ask the question about what keeps him motivated. I feel like if he rallies around the "me against everybody who thinks I'm done" thing, we could see #8, but to your point...the window is closing.
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2 years out of championship form (cause 2017 started hot), and you gotta really question motivation, as you said.

I remember in 2016 when it was a big deal that he went 24 races without a win.. 70+ races later, after that kind of success, I'd imagine you really start reflecting. What else does he have to accomplish besides #8? If he isn't close, what is the incentive? He's accomplished what no active driver today ever will. I think he's accepted his place in history, accepted his dwindling interest and ability, and accepted the teams performance and is just kind of chilling.. like a declining NBA star playing pickup, or playing in the all star game. Jimmie sounds more calm than ever on the radio. I think he'll make his decision after this year. If he ends the season competitively, a retirement announcement may not happen until mid 2020, depending on the season. If 2019 is winless, I think he announces he's hanging it up in 2020.

Regardless, he and Chad are going to make one last run together and retire together.. I'd bet money on that.

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if I am jimmie I want at least 85 wins, that puts him ahead of some big names, number 4 on the win list.
 
Snappy D said:
So do you think the 48 team/HMS is the problem or do you think it’s Jimmie’s ability as to why he hasn’t won in a while? You say it’s the aero package but the statement I highlighted makes me wonder what your angle is on this.
Click to expand...

Combination of everything honestly. Started with HMS fall off, then driving style turned upside down and losing Knaus. What worked for him no longer works anymore. Not getting the cars he once did, resource loss on Lowe's leaving.

It's no knock on Jimmie, nobody stays on top forever. I long thought he would try to stick it out as long as he could to try for his 8th championship, but seeing what's happening now....I don't think it will be long. It reminds me of how cringey it was to watch Stewart mid-packing or worse when they pulled horsepower out of the car, it killed the edge he had on throttle control, and he never ran the same again, I think the same is happening here with JJ. Essentially being phased out. ...Just my thoughts.
 
jaqua19 said:
2 years out of championship form (cause 2017 started hot), and you gotta really question motivation, as you said.

I remember in 2016 when it was a big deal that he went 24 races without a win.. 70+ races later, after that kind of success, I'd imagine you really start reflecting. What else does he have to accomplish besides #8? If he isn't close, what is the incentive? He's accomplished what no active driver today ever will. I think he's accepted his place in history, accepted his dwindling interest and ability, and accepted the teams performance and is just kind of chilling.. like a declining NBA star playing pickup, or playing in the all star game. Jimmie sounds more calm than ever on the radio. I think he'll make his decision after this year. If he ends the season competitively, a retirement announcement may not happen until mid 2020, depending on the season. If 2019 is winless, I think he announces he's hanging it up in 2020.

Regardless, he and Chad are going to make one last run together and retire together.. I'd bet money on that.

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I agree with that assessment of where "he's at" in terms of being satisfied. Only JJ knows of course, but seems likely they will put all their eggs into the 2020 basket for 1 final run at it, and make an announcement. That's what I would do if I was him...

I don't think Chad will be allowed to leave Byron's side though.
 
Turtle84 said:
Combination of everything honestly. Started with HMS fall off, then driving style turned upside down and losing Knaus. What worked for him no longer works anymore. Not getting the cars he once did, resource loss on Lowe's leaving.

It's no knock on Jimmie, nobody stays on top forever. I long thought he would try to stick it out as long as he could to try for his 8th championship, but seeing what's happening now....I don't think it will be long. It reminds me of how cringey it was to watch Stewart mid-packing or worse when they pulled horsepower out of the car, it killed the edge he had on throttle control, and he never ran the same again, I think the same is happening here with JJ. Essentially being phased out. ...Just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
All good points, the combination of everything going against him right now can’t be ignored.
 
I’ve always thought Jimmie’s success was because of a combination of things throughout his career:
Team chemistry. Best driver/crew chief combination at the time.
Unlimited HMS resources.
NASCAR seemingly looking the other way when Chad was “experimenting.”

I’ve never thought of Jimmie as a wheelman. I believe for a long time that he often had the best car. Jimmie doesn’t seem to me to be a guy that would win in any other car.
Earnhardt was winning in mediocre RCR cars.
Kurt Busch wins with a new team in whatever you stick him in.
Kyle Busch gets the most out of his car every lap.

Jimmie never seemed to me to be that type of driver. JMO.
We’ll never know because JJ will never be in another car or drive for a different organization.
 
Jimmie can still win (imho) --

his pursuit of Crying Martin at the ROVAL was pure talent pushing his HMS ride to the limit before he Ole'd the final two corners and collected MTJ.

JJ may have diminished skills, cars, crew, team, whatever... but if Bowman can win, so can Jimmie.

Will he? Now that's a different story...
 
BobbyFord said:
I’ve always thought Jimmie’s success was because of a combination of things throughout his career:
Team chemistry. Best driver/crew chief combination at the time.
Unlimited HMS resources.
NASCAR seemingly looking the other way when Chad was “experimenting.”

I’ve never thought of Jimmie as a wheelman. I believe for a long time that he often had the best car. Jimmie doesn’t seem to me to be a guy that would win in any other car.
Earnhardt was winning in mediocre RCR cars.
Kurt Busch wins with a new team in whatever you stick him in.
Kyle Busch gets the most out of his car every lap.

Jimmie never seemed to me to be that type of driver. JMO.
We’ll never know because JJ will never be in another car or drive for a different organization.
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I’m surprised you’re not one of those fans who say Jimmie’s success was because of the Chase. What you say you can make a pretty compelling argument for. I don’t agree with it, but I’d be open for listening.
 
JMO the new inspection process...not in effect in JJ's glory years and the loss of Lowe's big $$$$ contributed to JJ's slump
 
BobbyFord said:
I’ve always thought Jimmie’s success was because of a combination of things throughout his career:
Team chemistry. Best driver/crew chief combination at the time. .
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with this statement, but was it not also true of Richard Petty and Dale Inman, David Pearson and Leonard Wood, Jeff Gordon and Ray Evernham? Does that fact diminish those driver's successes?


BobbyFord said:
Unlimited HMS resources.
Click to expand...

And those resources are somehow more powerful than TRD's, Roger Penske's or even Roush Fenway in their heyday?

BobbyFord said:
NASCAR seemingly looking the other way when Chad was “experimenting.”
Click to expand...

Judging by the fines and suspensions, they must not have been looking the other way too often, and I think there are SEVERAL organizations that could give Chad a run for his money on bending the rules.

BobbyFord said:
I’ve never thought of Jimmie as a wheelman. I believe for a long time that he often had the best car. Jimmie doesn’t seem to me to be a guy that would win in any other car.
Click to expand...

Evidently you missed the part where other drivers including Jeff Gordon said if they tried to run their car the way Jimmie did, they would crash every lap. And yes, pretty much EVERY driver that dominates has one of the VERY best cars. Jimmie is no anomaly in that respect.

BobbyFord said:
Earnhardt was winning in mediocre RCR cars.
Kurt Busch wins with a new team in whatever you stick him in.
Kyle Busch gets the most out of his car every lap..
Click to expand...

I think it is folly to call the RCR cars of Dale's era mediocre. They had some off years in the late 90's but I think other teams catching up, revolving crew chiefs and Dale's physical condition, especially after the big wreck at Talladega in 1996, held him back until he finally had some surgery and almost won the 2000 title. Remember too that Kevin Harvick got in those cars and was fast IMMEADIATLY too. The fall off only came later.

Kurt Busch IS an amazing talent, and if he had had 30% of Jimmie's common sense and self restraint, he might be a three or four time champion. The fact that he has gotten a chance to win so many places is because he can't keep a job.

Kyle Busch is ALSO an amazing talent, but until very recently, head to head Jimmie beat him like a drum year after year, including the time they were driving the same equipment. Jimmie was a legitimate title contender as a Cup rookie. How many years did it take Kyle to even get CLOSE to a title?
 
Formerjackman said:
-I can't disagree with this statement, but was it not also true of Richard Petty and Dale Inman, David Pearson and Leonard Wood, Jeff Gordon and Ray Evernham? Does that fact diminish those driver's successes?

Impossible to compare eras, nothing is the same.



-And those resources are somehow more powerful than TRD's, Roger Penske's or even Roush Fenway in their heyday?

I don’t believe anyone else was on par with HMS when Jimmie was dominating. Again, my opinion was NASCAR was more lenient with them at the time, or they were doing something that NASCAR couldn’t pinpoint.

-Judging by the fines and suspensions, they must not have been looking the other way too often, and I think there are SEVERAL organizations that could give Chad a run for his money on bending the rules.

This I disagree with.


-Evidently you missed the part where other drivers including Jeff Gordon said if they tried to run their car the way Jimmie did, they would crash every lap. And yes, pretty much EVERY driver that dominates has one of the VERY best cars. Jimmie is no anomaly in that respect.

Everyone likes a different setup based on their driving style.

-I think it is folly to call the RCR cars of Dale's era mediocre. They had some off years in the late 90's but I think other teams catching up, revolving crew chiefs and Dale's physical condition, especially after the big wreck at Talladega in 1996, held him back until he finally had some surgery and almost won the 2000 title. Remember too that Kevin Harvick got in those cars and was fast IMMEADIATLY too. The fall off only came later.

I’m never going to believe that Dale’s success was more about the car and not about his determination and ability.

-Kurt Busch IS an amazing talent, and if he had had 30% of Jimmie's common sense and self restraint, he might be a three or four time champion. The fact that he has gotten a chance to win so many places is because he can't keep a job.

Kurt is one of the best drivers currently in the Cup series.


-Kyle Busch is ALSO an amazing talent, but until very recently, head to head Jimmie beat him like a drum year after year, including the time they were driving the same equipment. Jimmie was a legitimate title contender as a Cup rookie. How many years did it take Kyle to even get CLOSE to a title?

Nobody at HMS had the same equipment or crew chemistry as JJ when he was dominating.
Click to expand...
 

I'm NOT comparing the eras, just pointing out that those drivers ALSO had the best driver/crew chief combination of their era, and I don't see anybody trying to deflect credit from them.
 
So if other drivers styles doesn't fit JJ's cars..and they would be less successful in his cars...and he went on to dominate for over a decade...doesn't that mean he has some talent?

I genuinely thought that from 2005-2016 it was a consensus (albeit unpopular) opinion that Jimmie was the most talented "race car driver" in NASCAR. The whole "not as rawly talented" argument is tired. The best driver in the best equipment is going to win a lot. And of course he has an advantage. 18 and 19 and 4 have been the most dominant drivers since 2015. Best cars relative to the field every week like the 48 sort of had. Jimmie performed better than any driver in the "best equipment did".

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Formerjackman said:
I'm NOT comparing the eras, just pointing out that those drivers ALSO had the best driver/crew chief combination of their era, and I don't see anybody trying to deflect credit from them.
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I think people don't like that 1. Jimmie is PC, and 2. Has the GOAT resume statistically.

History will show Petty, Earnhardt and Johnson. Dale was Dale. Petty has 200 wins. Johnson 5 strait titles. Then it will show Jeff Gordon who almost got there (Pearson should be there too) then there is everyone else.

For some reason, people don't want to accept that someone else has blown past Gordon, and joined the two holy grails of the sport

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Formerjackman said:
I'm NOT comparing the eras, just pointing out that those drivers ALSO had the best driver/crew chief combination of their era, and I don't see anybody trying to deflect credit from them.
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Petty’s record was padded with podunk fair wins. Pearson was the better driver.
 
jaqua19 said:
So if other drivers styles doesn't fit JJ's cars..and they would be less successful in his cars...and he went on to dominate for over a decade...doesn't that mean he has some talent?

I genuinely thought that from 2005-2016 it was a consensus (albeit unpopular) opinion that Jimmie was the most talented "race car driver" in NASCAR. The whole "not as rawly talented" argument is tired. The best driver in the best equipment is going to win a lot. And of course he has an advantage. 18 and 19 and 4 have been the most dominant drivers since 2015. Best cars relative to the field every week like the 48 sort of had. Jimmie performed better than any driver in the "best equipment did".

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I believe the current tech inspection is why JJ quit winning. There are drivers that are Jimmie’s age that are still competitive.
 
jaqua19 said:
I think people don't like that 1. Jimmie is PC, and 2. Has the GOAT resume statistically.

History will show Petty, Earnhardt and Johnson. Dale was Dale. Petty has 200 wins. Johnson 5 strait titles. Then it will show Jeff Gordon who almost got there (Pearson should be there too) then there is everyone else.

For some reason, people don't want to accept that someone else has blown past Gordon, and joined the two holy grails of the sport

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Jeff Gordon is my one of my childhood hero's, favorite race car driver ever and still my favorite driver. I was one of those people who hated JJ and made up excuses for his dominance. It's also weird I am cheering for him to make one more run of it before he retires. Saying that JJ did surpass Gordon, in fact after 07 Gordon just fell off and you could also say his career while great left a little to be desired since his last title came in 01. Like I remember reading Autoweek, newspapers and Sports Illustrated in 01....people were expecting Gordon to get 200 wins and like 10 Cups, video game numbers. I never expected those lofty numbers myself but I expected him to break most championships won... You can also say the Chase/Playoffs did him no favors and I will always think of him as an "uncrowned" 7 time champion, but the numbers are what they are. They say JJ surpassed Jeff. Hurts to say but its the truth.
 
BobbyFord said:
Petty’s record was padded with podunk fair wins. Pearson was the better driver.
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I'm a Pearson guy myself, but while David was sitting home on the porch, Richard and Dale out running every week and racking up championships. The Podunk win thing applies to Pearson too during his championship runs, and doesn't apply to ANYBODY after 1971, where Richard and Dale still won three championships and a crapload of races.
 
He's starting to get outrun by Byron and Bowman more regularly. Knaus and Byron have been progressing lately so maybe Chad wasn't the problem.
 
BobbyFord said:
I believe the current tech inspection is why JJ quit winning. There are drivers that are Jimmie’s age that are still competitive.
Click to expand...

Because Chad Knaus was the ONLY crew chief to figure out how to game the system with the old inspection process? Besides Harvick, who is Jimmie's age? Harvick has better cars.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm a Pearson guy myself, but while David was sitting home on the porch, Richard and Dale out running every week and racking up championships. The Podunk win thing applies to Pearson too during his championship runs, and doesn't apply to ANYBODY after 1971, where Richard and Dale still won three championships and a crapload of races.
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True but when Pearson did run he won more than anybody else. He had the best win percentage of all time.
 
Formerjackman said:
Because Chad Knaus was the ONLY crew chief to figure out how to game the system with the old inspection process? Besides Harvick, who is Jimmie's age? Harvick has better cars.
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Jimmie isn’t winning now because of the cars? Don’t the other HMS drivers have wins?
Kurt is what, two years younger than JJ?
 
BobbyFord said:
I believe the current tech inspection is why JJ quit winning. There are drivers that are Jimmie’s age that are still competitive.
Click to expand...

Because Chad Knaus was the ONLY crew chief to figure out how to game the system with the old inspection process? Besides Harvick, who is Jimmie's age? Harvick has better cars.
 
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