23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Naitch said:
The owners have leverage over NASCAR, they provide the product. They could’ve joined 23XI and FRR in holding out and not signing the charter deal.

Every other team owner decided that the charter agreement was fine. If they had spoken up and banded together, maybe we would get real change and not this BS lawsuit. I don’t feel sorry for them one bit. The RTA is a useless husk of NASCAR asskissers.

The real victims of escalating costs are drivers like Corey Heim, who need to bring funding to find a ride. How many talented guys don’t even get to Heim’s level because they can’t cut a check. The days of blue collar racers is essentially dead.
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Not a good look to bring up the RTA. Only two out of the bunch thought they were getting a raw deal. Doesn't cost a thing for Childress to play victim. I wonder why nobody else has?

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StandOnIt said:
Not a good look to bring up the RTA. Only two out of the bunch thought they were getting a raw deal. Doesn't cost a thing for Childress to play victim. I wonder why nobody else has?

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They had a gun to their heads. NASCAR NEVER negotiated in good faith. Every time they got further apart.

My hunch is a lot of teams privately support the lawsuit because they all got a raw deal, and only signed the charter agreement because they knew MJ and Denny and Jenkins were gonna sue.
 
HoneyBadger said:
My hunch is a lot of teams privately support the lawsuit because they all got a raw deal, and only signed the charter agreement because they knew MJ and Denny and Jenkins were gonna sue.
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If the teams had that strategy that then “dumb” is an accurate description for those owners. Instead of doing things themselves, they want the courts to step in.

Imagine telling Junior Johnson to rely on a court to straighten out NASCAR.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Again, post #4499. NASCAR only created a new charter because didn't have time to stand up their own fully owned racing series. They already own the cars & tracks. Look at option #5.
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Option #5 is a bluff. There’s no way running a spec car series where you absorb all the costs is profitable at all.

Any good negotiator knows that you shouldn’t be afraid to call the other side’s bluff.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Again, post #4499. NASCAR only created a new charter because didn't have time to stand up their own fully owned racing series. They already own the cars & tracks. Look at option #5.
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This isn't the holy grail you think it is. This is in lieu of 23XI talking with teams to separate from the series, boycotting certain races. It's part of a contingency plan.
Quiet as it has been kept Front Row is in the suit in name only, none of the correspondence even mentions their name. This is all 23XI and he doesn't have the support of any of the rest of the group. They are footing the whole bill.
 
Naitch said:
If the teams had that strategy that then “dumb” is an accurate description for those owners. Instead of doing things themselves, they want the courts to step in.

Imagine telling Junior Johnson to rely on a court to straighten out NASCAR.
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But every time NASCAR and the teams met, they'd get farther apart and it was literally Zero Hour.
 
HoneyBadger said:
But every time NASCAR and the teams met, they'd get farther apart and it was literally Zero Hour.
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Not true according to the correspondence. The teams, 23XI, failed to negotiate. They had their demands and that was it. Hence Nascar sign the charter or not deadline. Everybody signed it but 23XI and Front Row.
 
StandOnIt said:
Not true according to the correspondence. The teams, 23XI, failed to negotiate. They had their demands and that was it. Hence Nascar sign the charter or not deadline. Everybody signed it but 23XI and Front Row.
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The teams kept saying in media reports and Denny Hamlin kept saying NASCAR and the teams kept getting further apart.
 
StandOnIt said:
This isn't the holy grail you think it is. This is in lieu of 23XI talking with teams to separate from the series, boycotting certain races. It's part of a contingency plan.
Quiet as it has been kept Front Row is in the suit in name only, none of the correspondence even mentions their name. This is all 23XI and he doesn't have the support of any of the rest of the group. They are footing the whole bill.
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NASCAR basically has a gag order on them. Criticize the deal, and you are in violation of the agreement. Guys like Rick, Roger and Joe are smart enough not to get into a public pissing match. Doesn't mean they like the deal they signed. Rick said it without saying it right after the signing deadline.
 
Naitch said:
Option #5 is a bluff. There’s no way running a spec car series where you absorb all the costs is profitable at all.

Any good negotiator knows that you shouldn’t be afraid to call the other side’s bluff.
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This is both the reality of Option #5 but also I have no doubt NASCAR brass thinks they are entitled to all the money and might do it.

As others pointed out, Steve Phelps didn't build anything. In fact, almost every single year since Phelps came on board ratings have gone down and when we had public financials we saw attendance dropped too. He's demolished much of what Bill Sr. and Jr. could have claimed to built.
 
Formerjackman said:
NASCAR basically has a gag order on them. Criticize the deal, and you are in violation of the agreement. Guys like Rick, Roger and Joe are smart enough not to get into a public pissing match. Doesn't mean they like the deal they signed. Rick said it without saying it right after the signing deadline.
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What are the big 3 saying now. Roger, Rick and Joe? How about Marks, or Spire? Any saying it without saying it from them?
 
StandOnIt said:
What are the big 3 saying now. Roger, Rick and Joe? How about Marks, or Spire? Any saying it without saying it from them?
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What would Roger need to say to make you rethink your position? I'd the answer is "There's nothing he could say," then what is the value of him saying anything additional? I mean, who would it convince at this stage?
 
HoneyBadger said:
But every time NASCAR and the teams met, they'd get farther apart and it was literally Zero Hour.
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Then that's not a real negotiation. The teams had leverage, but NASCAR waited them out. If you enter into a negotiation without at least the possibility of walking away, you're not negotiating, you're just wasting your time. I guarantee you that if the teams threatened to go on strike over the charter agreement, NASCAR would've taken them seriously.

I know NASCAR owners and drivers are allergic to any kind of real collective action, but you often don't get meaningful change without doing it. Right now, they're risking a judge deciding the fate of our sport, which is just an asinine approach to take.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
No 'if's. 'If' isn't permanent. Expiration dates aren't permanent.
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Well this is true but I don't see a single charter in the system being run by idiots. Losing a charter would be a loss of millions so I'm sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. This whole thing is bad for the sport. I haven't kept up with this like I should because I hate legal wrangling so how did Childress get drawn in to this? Wasn't he one of the owners to sign the Charter agreement?
 
Spotter22 said:
I haven't kept up with this like I should because I hate legal wrangling so how did Childress get drawn in to this? Wasn't he one of the owners to sign the Charter agreement?
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In some of the NASCAR internal e-mails and chat posts included in the pre-trial discovery process, Steve Phelps made derogatory remarks about Childress in particular and fans and other owners in general. The judge ruled during the pre-trial motions that personal remarks by either side will not be admissible as evidence, but the comments are in the public record and are being publicized.
 
Conover said:
That’s good. Here’s this one, and the Cars Tour. Where’s the monopoly again?

No mention of any TV deal, but I’d bet these would get televised by Flo Racing.
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The combined purses for every single event for the IHRA late models is probably less than a single Grand National (not even Cup) event. Yeah, serious competition.
 
Conover said:
That’s good. Here’s this one, and the Cars Tour. Where’s the monopoly again?

No mention of any TV deal, but I’d bet these would get televised by Flo Racing.
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Ya wonder about the car(s). Some of the cars are called Late Models with that package, CARS has a lighter higher H.P. Super late model. Maybe the IHRA's will be called super duper Late Models. Good for them.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Do you consider the CARS tour to be competitive with NASCAR? No broadcast or cable coverage. Races in only four southeastern states. I'm guessing zero recognition outside racing forums.
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No broadcast or cable...the races are streamed on FloRacing. TBH embracing streaming like they are, they may be in the future first.
 
virtualbalboa said:
The combined purses for every single event for the IHRA late models is probably less than a single Grand National (not even Cup) event. Yeah, serious competition.
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Gotta start somewhere. If anyone thinks there’s going to be a big dog teaming up with them or the Cars Tour and create an instant big time competitor, think again.

On the other hand….

Jordan wants to use his influence and connections to combine massive money and buy out NASCAR. Why not just leave, take their pretty shop, and glam on with one of those two?
 
Hawaii808 said:
I've pondered this happening. MJ can attract all the needed investment (OPM) if he decided to make a run for NASCAR. NASCAR and Jordan brand would make a helluva combination.
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Hey, some of them are starting to figure it out lol. Get the Saudi's and some other private equities involved and there ya go. If they can get the courts to force Nascar to let them run on Nascar's tracks why there you go. A split in the series, a split in talent and a split in the fans.
 
StandOnIt said:
A page or two back Justin Marks was talking with the Saudi's. Telling the gang how they could build cars etc. How much proof do you need?
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Justin Marks isn't Michael Jordan. Oman isn't in the US. So yeah, I'm going to need something quoting Jordan directly; without that, you're stating your assumptions as facts.
 
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