23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Old Cup cars have been used in all sorts of series, most notable of course is ARCA.
The simple answer as I see it is that Nascar owns that series also and if in ANY series that Nascar owns, they can and will race any car that Nascar deems legal to run in that series. They run two different year OEM style cars in ARCA as it is. Who knows about Xfinity. They let the yotas run a 2 seater sports car, and probably will let the Chevy's continue to run the Camaros.
 
I doubt there’s any negotiating going on.

Jenkins, Jordan, Polk, Kessler et al will either take their boxes of documents to a judge or slink away with their tails between their legs.

These guys know what they’re doing. The second choice is not a good bet.
What boxes of documents lol.

Well … off the top of my head:

Printed and electronic PDF copies of the original Charter agreement, a legal list of all signatories, any and all subsequent amendments to the original agreement including, but not limited to, the charter earnings structure and any technical / assembly issues centered around the safety and performance aspects of the Nextgen car.

Copies of any and all correspondence between NASCAR, the RTA, the owner’ bargaining committee, individual teams and / or their bargaining representatives that has occurred since the inception of the charter system.

Copies of transcribed summaries of all meetings, telephone conversations and any other verbal communication that occurred between some or all of the parties having anything to do with the charter agreement renewal process.

Kessler and his squadron of coiffed, expensively dressed secondary attorneys and legal assistants will file into the courtroom carrying banker’s boxes filled with meticulously organized file folders filled with DOCUMENTS. lol
 
That's where they are at. If they make any special exceptions for the 2 teams that aren't signing, they have to start all over. It looks like it is too late to do that, the new deal starts next year.
There are two teams wanting something and trying to negotiate and none of us know what it is they want outside of wild guesses and prognostications bordering on everything from the inane to the impossible.
In the end those two teams might find they have nothing come the first of the year or they might have NASCAR in court. We don't know but I do not see 29XI or FRM in a tug of war with NASCAR if they did not feel they had some solid footing.
 
There are two teams wanting something and trying to negotiate and none of us know what it is they want outside of wild guesses and prognostications bordering on everything from the inane to the impossible.
In the end those two teams might find they have nothing come the first of the year or they might have NASCAR in court. We don't know but I do not see 29XI or FRM in a tug of war with NASCAR if they did not feel they had some solid footing.
Oh, it's pretty easy to see what they want in a general way. They want more control. They are trying to split up Nascar and gain more control for themselves.
 
Well … off the top of my head:

Printed and electronic PDF copies of the original Charter agreement, a legal list of all signatories, any and all subsequent amendments to the original agreement including, but not limited to, the charter earnings structure and any technical / assembly issues centered around the safety and performance aspects of the Nextgen car.

Copies of any and all correspondence between NASCAR, the RTA, the owner’ bargaining committee, individual teams and / or their bargaining representatives that has occurred since the inception of the charter system.

Copies of transcribed summaries of all meetings, telephone conversations and any other verbal communication that occurred between some or all of the parties having anything to do with the charter agreement renewal process.

Kessler and his squadron of coiffed, expensively dressed secondary attorneys and legal assistants will file into the courtroom carrying banker’s boxes filled with meticulously organized file folders filled with DOCUMENTS. lol
While I agree the lawyers will be loaded for bear, exactly what kind of suit would they be pursuing? NASCAR as a monopoly, or something else?

I'm no lawyer but I assume they rejected signing first AND then suing after securing access for next year.
 
While I agree the lawyers will be loaded for bear, exactly what kind of suit would they be pursuing? NASCAR as a monopoly, or something else?

I'm no lawyer but I assume they rejected signing first AND then suing after securing access for next year.
I don't believe they have sued yet. I think it is at the I'm going to call my lawyer stage.
 
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I don't believe they have sued yet. I think it is at the I'm going to call my lawyer stage.
If they're going to court, I don't know what they'd be waiting on. Cases involving sports sanctioning bodies move slower than John Hunter with a flat and seven cylinders. Sign or file but get a move on; I don't see how delaying is giving those two teams any advantage.
 
While I agree the lawyers will be loaded for bear, exactly what kind of suit would they be pursuing? NASCAR as a monopoly, or something else?

I'm no lawyer but I assume they rejected signing first AND then suing after securing access for next year.

Antitrust.

I think we’ll see some movement shortly after the playoffs are over.

Naturally, I could be wrong.
 
This isn't going to be any Indycar split. It ain't happening. The unity is there and appears to be strong. The legacy owners who built the series have moved on and are planning for next year, who knows what is going to happen to the outliers. They had better hurry up and file if they think they have a case, times are a wasting
I don't think anyone is suggesting a split, more like a strike, or at least the threat of one.
 
NASCAR would look pretty funny if no Cup teams showed up for Daytona.
That ship sank ten days ago. Right now it looks like at least 30 cars plan to be there, excluding 23XI, FRM, and the last two SHR charters. Those SHR tickets aren't going to sit unused, so 32. There's also usually a decent number of unchartered teams for Daytona, so they'll have a better chance to make the show. More than enough for a race.

MJ may be willing to commit to paying for an extended lawsuit. Will he pay the salaries of the team's employees and the shop's fixed costs too? And does FRM have deep enough pockets to stand with him? Neither will be receiving sponsor money.

Maybe Bubba and Tyler can run Xfinity in the meantime to bring in some dimes...
 
That ship sank ten days ago. Right now it looks like at least 30 cars plan to be there, excluding 23XI, FRM, and the last two SHR charters. Those SHR tickets aren't going to sit unused, so 32. There's also usually a decent number of unchartered teams for Daytona, so they'll have a better chance to make the show. More than enough for a race.

MJ may be willing to commit to paying for an extended lawsuit. Will he pay the salaries of the team's employees and the shop's fixed costs too? And does FRM have deep enough pockets to stand with him? Neither will be receiving sponsor money.

Maybe Bubba and Tyler can run Xfinity in the meantime to bring in some dimes...
And to go further will NASCAR refuse their entry as an open car if a pending lawsuit is in place?
 
This is all so entertaining that I wished it was going on during the off season. Funny thing is we all have known the outcome since the beginning. ALL teams will be signed and racing by Daytona. Never has been a question in my mind. FRM and 23XI is just providing a bit of additional entertainment.
 
This is all so entertaining that I wished it was going on during the off season. Funny thing is we all have known the outcome since the beginning. ALL teams will be signed and racing by Daytona. Never has been a question in my mind. FRM and 23XI is just providing a bit of additional entertainment.
23XI just signed Bubba Wallace to a multi year contract. That pretty much seals that deal.
 
I don't see everyone else putting their asses on the line for Dennis.
Probably not Dennis, but MJ and Polk? Not as far fetched.
That ship sank ten days ago. Right now it looks like at least 30 cars plan to be there, excluding 23XI, FRM, and the last two SHR charters. Those SHR tickets aren't going to sit unused, so 32. There's also usually a decent number of unchartered teams for Daytona, so they'll have a better chance to make the show. More than enough for a race.

MJ may be willing to commit to paying for an extended lawsuit. Will he pay the salaries of the team's employees and the shop's fixed costs too? And does FRM have deep enough pockets to stand with him? Neither will be receiving sponsor money.

Maybe Bubba and Tyler can run Xfinity in the meantime to bring in some dimes...
No, the ship sailed when the other 13 signed. The teams just have to accept that they are now and probably forever NASCAR's bitch. When the new contract expires, NASCAR will hold a gun to the owner's heads that much faster, knowing that owners don't have a spine.
 
Why would they do that? Non charter teams can race, they have a whole set of rules for non charter teams. Nascar could get the hell sued out of them if they did that.
You have difficulty to phrase "pending lawsuit"? I'm suggesting 23XI files a suit before the Daytona 500. Why would NASCAR allow them on their property? This will no doubt end up in court. No other reason for their reluctance in signing.
 
Like someone else mentioned that I'm sure Bubba's contract is contingent on them getting a charter for next year

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Like someone else mentioned that I'm sure Bubba's contract is contingent on them getting a charter for next year

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I'm not sure how much good that contingency does Bubba. If 2025 rolls around and 23XI still has no charter, where's he going?
 
Also regardless of opinions on Denny etc, it would suck as fans to lose SHR, 23 and FRM all at the same time if they don’t get it worked out.
 
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