23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Talk about going nuclear here. I could see so many of the die hard fans turning hate on Dennis along with anything related to the 2 teams.

Could easily turn out that you lose more by winning this one....

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Part of me thinks that 23XI & FRM are the "proxies" for the other teams. Acting as the provocateurs for the sport, and with their silent support.

Let's not forget NASCAR dumping a 100+ page document for the teams to sign at 5pm on a Friday and telling the them to sign by midnight or risk losing their charters. I think this would legally qualify as "signing under duress" thus nullifying the document.

I also can't let go of the inequity of JRG & HMS (and Penske by proxy) being the only teams "allowed" to have 4 charters. That is an advantage a well funded team like say 23XI may want for themselves too.

It will be interesting to see this play out, but I'm certain it will be resolved by the time the flag drops at Daytona.

P.S. Imagine how awkward the banquet would be if Denny somehow wins the championship, backing up Reddick's regular season championship.
 
wi_racefan said:
Talk about going nuclear here. I could see so many of the die hard fans turning hate on Dennis along with anything related to the 2 teams.

Could easily turn out that you lose more by winning this one....

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He never had far to go in my world. His story is "I never knew how much things cost until I put my money into being an owner". Good business decision moron. :idunno:
 
Hawaii808 said:
Part of me thinks that 23XI & FRM are the "proxies" for the other teams. Acting as the provocateurs for the sport, and with their silent support.

Let's not forget NASCAR dumping a 100+ page document for the teams to sign at 5pm on a Friday and telling the them to sign by midnight or risk losing their charters. I think this would legally qualify as "signing under duress" thus nullifying the document.

I also can't let go of the inequity of JRG & HMS (and Penske by proxy) being the only teams "allowed" to have 4 charters. That is an advantage a well funded team like say 23XI may want for themselves too.

It will be interesting to see this play out, but I'm certain it will be resolved by the time the flag drops at Daytona.

P.S. Imagine how awkward the banquet would be if Denny somehow wins the championship, backing up Reddick's regular season championship.
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That's what I thought from the beginning, MJ vs Nascar. You would think Nascar would wake up and realize it's not 1969 anymore.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Let’s just hope it settles before it goes to court. Who knows that remedy a judge will order and how it could shake up the sport.
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I go back to my opinion that if NASCAR had agreed to make the charters permanent properties of each individual team, everyone would have signed the next day.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Those don't carry much weight in court either.

If we shouldn't put much credence in what the legal teams say in the media, we should put even less in what third parties say someone else said.
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If you are trying to justify what Larry Mac said wasn't valid. You may be right, than again I happen to think he is on a first name basis with most of the major owners and being on Nascar radio, I don't think he was talking out of turn.
I also would think that after two years of negotiation, it would be really strange if Nascar was drawing up contracts without consulting lawyers.
 
I really don’t think NASCAR wants it to even reach discovery. It was reported during charter negotiations that the teams opened up their books to NASCAR, and the sanctioning body never returned the favor. Kessler wants to see where the revenues go. A settlement seems like it makes the most sense.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I really don’t think NASCAR wants it to even reach discovery. It was reported during charter negotiations that the teams opened up their books to NASCAR, and the sanctioning body never returned the favor. Kessler wants to see where the revenues go. A settlement seems like it makes the most sense.
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I don't think they will lose their charters although they said they would race without one. Front Row I don't think would be happy to go without. If that even comes up in court. I think the charters will stay and both teams will continue to race. These Anti trusts can last forever.
 
Conover said:
Preach Larry Mac:

"We've got an organization that's been here not even four years that all of a sudden is saying 'we gotta change the way NASCAR's run'. I'm all about change. Change is what makes you better. But you know what? When I see Richard Childress, Jake Roush, Rick Hendrick, and Joe Gibbs that's been here longer than some of these guys have been pooping yellow ... and they signed off and said this is good ... we're okay. There's things we don't like about it but we're going to do what's best for the sport and best for our business. And they signed off on it and these people that have been A. either not competitive or only been here for four and a half years have been saying the way we've done business for 76 and a half years is wrong"
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23X1 is dismissed because they’ve only been on the scene for 4 1/2 years while the 1360 races entered by Bob Jenkins over the past 20 seasons are dismissed as the feeble efforts of a non-competitive team.

Neither of these facts is relevant to the matters at hand. Larry Mac is an ignorant shill.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The charters should be permanent. It was a pretty unforced error by NASCAR.
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Even though I know NASCAR didn’t want to do it, permanent charters MIGHT have avoided this. However, I suspect Jordan and company were likely contemplating bigger cuts of the pie than just charters. Call it fair or call it greedy, but this is a big game hunt designed to completely restructure ownership and $$$.
 
aunty dive said:
23X1 is dismissed because they’ve only been on the scene for 4 1/2 years while the 1360 races entered by Bob Jenkins over the past 20 seasons are dismissed as the feeble efforts of a non-competitive team.

Neither of these facts is relevant to the matters at hand. Larry Mac is an ignorant shill.
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He's a shill, but these lawyers running their mouths all day saying nothing but jerking the chain isn't lol. Sure.
 
Conover said:
Whatever this suit is or isn’t, understand that Kessler is going to frame this in the best possible light for his clients, and villainize NASCAR as part of that. How much is egregious or unlawful will be decided in the courts or via settlement.

BUT, make no mistake…these two teams went nuclear on NASCAR with this filing. How NASCAR plays it is going to be interesting. Think they want two teams full of owners/drivers bellowing weekly about mean old NASCAR in front of cameras? I guarantee you if there is any legal way to restrict them from participating further either this season or especially next season they will do it. Not saying they can…but who knows?
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Agree 100%. Charters get yanked Dec 31st at midnight. Teams are then nonperson grda. No NASCAR license/hard card, you ain't coming in the pits. If they can figure out a way to keep them off the property, will do so. From NASCAR's perspective, death sentence. You gone. No appeals available.

THEN the serious lawyering starts happening. I fully expect this is way it goes. As I also suggested earlier in this thread. Maybe not precisely same words but same idea.

Is ANY of the above passive aggressive? IDK. It's how I think. Maybe it is? Don't so much care what some think.
 
The Nature Boy said:
The underlying assumption is that any break up would be handled competently. If NASCAR has to sell tracks and/or spinoff a series, there are a million ways it could go wrong, depending on who buys either.
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Be whole lot simpler to bring all 36 teams together, in same room @ same time, and say UNCLE! What do you want to make this go away? Because no way in heil you can give two teams different deal. It's all or none.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I go back to my opinion that if NASCAR had agreed to make the charters permanent properties of each individual team, everyone would have signed the next day.
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StandOnIt said:
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Guy is bad to the bone! Judgement for the Plaintiff! All NASCAR assets hereby seized and will be auctioned off at the courthouse in Daytona Beach on June 14th 2025 @ 12:00PM. Be there or be square.


Ok...I might have gotten just a little carried away...
 

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Blaze said:
To be fair, that’s probably just because those players aren’t wise with their money.
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And players & teams are completely different things. Lot of NASCAR drivers AND team owners went broke. Because...? No charters. Team shut down? Next to worthless. For 50ish years.
 
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