What did you think of the Martinsville call?

[MRM]

Was he 5th? That's my call toss them both and let in whoever was 5th

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Larson was 6th. Byron and Bell would have to be docked enough to allow Larson to get in.

 

[aunty dive]

Larson was 6th. Byron and Bell would have to be docked enough to allow Larson to get in.

Stroke of the pen.

 

[28car]

We know Chastain passed several cars with his move
Went from out to in

After Bell passed Wallace
Did his wall riding benefit him

Sure it was a no no to wall ride
But did it advance his position

If not what’s the big deal

 

[wi_racefan]

We know Chastain passed several cars with his move
Went from out to in

After Bell passed Wallace
Did his wall riding benefit him

Sure it was a no no to wall ride
But did it advance his position

If not what’s the big deal

Because there's a rule saying you can't ride the wall under power. Doesn't matter if he passed anyone or not

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[OldTimer]

Think the ruling is BS... for twenty laps three cars boxed Keselowski in, it affected his race too. The "deal" should have been handled by NASCAR as if it was a concerted collusion to change the outcome of a race. All three teams should be fined a million dollars each. Did not like what Bubba did, or maybe he didn't, but he was squirrely prior and the twenty did pass him prior to going to the wall. Multiple cars during the race ran the wall and they were not penalized, why Bell? He did not improve his position, and he certainly did not do it in any way that jeopardized anyone in the stands or on the track.

Then again, nothing against the driver of the 24, but cannot fathom the owner of that car, he is a felon.

 

[Clutch]

Think the ruling is BS... for twenty laps three cars boxed Keselowski in, it affected his race too. The "deal" should have been handled by NASCAR as if it was a concerted collusion to change the outcome of a race. All three teams should be fined a million dollars each. Did not like what Bubba did, or maybe he didn't, but he was squirrely prior and the twenty did pass him prior to going to the wall. Multiple cars during the race ran the wall and they were not penalized, why Bell? He did not improve his position, and he certainly did not do it in any way that jeopardized anyone in the stands or on the track.

Then again, nothing against the driver of the 24, but cannot fathom the owner of that car, he is a felon.

I doubt this is the end of it.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

and they don't suspend Bubba Wallace for his involvement in these shenanigans,

Has it been confirmed Bubba had a flat?

 

[Magicmiler]

NASCAR will remedy the situation with a restrictor plate race at Loudon next September...
Again...

 

[Charlie Spencer]

NASCAR will remedy the situation with a restrictor plate race at Loudon next September...
Again...

Roller derby style. Dillon and Ross jamming for Byron against Bell, Wallace, and Hambone.

 

[superchuck500]

Has it been confirmed Bubba had a flat?

They took the 23 for tear down. I think between that and the telemetry they will know if and when.

 

[StandOnIt]

Bubba was surrounded by a parade of Chevys blocking for the 24. Wallace pumps the brakes causing the 7 chevy to run into his rear as the procession of Chevy's pass. Bubba fades to the outside, does a convincing wiggle while he radios to the crew that something is wrong, could be a tire, sway bar, he doesn't know but he's running slow? I think at least one Oscar needs to go to Wallace and the team for their winning performances in: The driver laying down and acting like he is broken category.

 

[superchuck500]

Bubba was surrounded by a parade of Chevys blocking for the 24. Wallace pumps the brakes causing the 7 chevy to run into his rear as the procession of Chevy's pass. Bubba fades to the outside, does a convincing wiggle while he radios to the crew that something is wrong, could be a tire, sway bar, he doesn't know but he's running slow? I think at least one Oscar needs to go to Wallace and the team for their winning performances in: The driver laying down and acting like he is broken category.

I think he first said he had a tire issue with 3 to go. I think they’ll be able to figure all of that out (just like in 2022 at the Roval when Custer did it).

 

[StandOnIt]

I think he first said he had a tire issue with 3 to go. I think they’ll be able to figure all of that out (just like in 2022 at the Roval when Custer did it).

I'm sorry, you mistook me for somebody that was being serious.

 

[superchuck500]

I'm sorry, you mistook me for somebody that was being serious.

Apologies - I was putting kids to bed and very serious minded!

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Bubba was surrounded by a parade of Chevys blocking for the 24. Wallace pumps the brakes causing the 7 chevy to run into his rear as the procession of Chevy's pass. Bubba fades to the outside, does a convincing wiggle while he radios to the crew that something is wrong, could be a tire, sway bar, he doesn't know but he's running slow? I think at least one Oscar needs to go to Wallace and the team for their winning performances in: The driver laying down and acting like he is broken category.

Wednesday NASCAR will hand him a yellow card.

 

[Team Penske]

Regardless, no system is going to guarantee the 'best' drivers are also the ones with the most 'flavor'.

Top ten in points start the playoffs. ALL starts or restarts are single file.
In regards to stages, no yellows, last 5 cars in each stage are sent to the garage. This will stop most of the games being played.

 

[Formerjackman]

Then again, nothing against the driver of the 24, but cannot fathom the owner of that car, he is a felon.

Is there no amount of penance this man can deliver that will FINALLY put a stop to all this felon nonsense? He was one of many who participated in an illegal scheme to get some more cars for his dealerships, it's not like he killed somebody. He does more good for people in a DAY than most people would do in a lifetime, even if they had his bank account, and yet we have to have this crap. It just gets old. And for the hundredth time, why aren't Gene Haas and Junior Johnson ALSO referred to as "felons?

 

[Formerjackman]

We know Chastain passed several cars with his move
Went from out to in

After Bell passed Wallace
Did his wall riding benefit him

Sure it was a no no to wall ride
But did it advance his position

If not what’s the big deal

Because NASCAR presented the rule (BS or not) as a SAFETY issue. Intent plays no part in it being a penalty or not.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

And for the hundredth time, why aren't Gene Haas and Junior Johnson ALSO referred to as "felons?

Because Haas isn't regularly fielding championship-capable cars, and Tom Wolfe wrote a book portraying Johnson as a hero.

Also because Hendrick and Haas were guilty of white-collar crimes, but Johnson was a good ol' boy sticking it to the man and dodging the 'revnooers'.

 

[kkfan91]

After an investigation of the on-track data and team scanners from the final laps of Sunday‘s Round of 8 elimination race, NASCAR determined the actions of those involved violated sections 4.4.B&D: NASCAR Member Conduct of the Rule Book, which include race manipulation and actions detrimental to stock car racing.

Drivers Ross Chastain (Trackhouse Racing), Austin Dillon (Richard Childress Racing), and Bubba Wallace (23XI Racing) were each hit with a loss of 50 driver points and a $100,000 fine. In addition, NASCAR also fined the owners of each team $100,000 and deducted 50 owner points each.

Crew chiefs Phil Surgen, Justin Alexander and Bootie Barker, along with their respective spotters Brandon McReynolds, Brandon Benesch and Freddie Kraft, were all suspended for the 2024 season finale at Phoenix Raceway.

Additionally, team executives Tony Lunders, Keith Rodden and Dave Rogers were also suspended for the 2024 finale at Phoenix.

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2024/11/05/nascar-issues-major-penalties-to-three-cup-series-teams-after-martinsville/

 

[Jimbo Slice]

Sunday was a true indictment of the playoff format. Something must change systemically. Suspending crew chiefs and spotters isn't going to do the trick.

 

[superchuck500]

After an investigation of the on-track data and team scanners from the final laps of Sunday‘s Round of 8 elimination race, NASCAR determined the actions of those involved violated sections 4.4.B&D: NASCAR Member Conduct of the Rule Book, which include race manipulation and actions detrimental to stock car racing.

Drivers Ross Chastain (Trackhouse Racing), Austin Dillon (Richard Childress Racing), and Bubba Wallace (23XI Racing) were each hit with a loss of 50 driver points and a $100,000 fine. In addition, NASCAR also fined the owners of each team $100,000 and deducted 50 owner points each.

Crew chiefs Phil Surgen, Justin Alexander and Bootie Barker, along with their respective spotters Brandon McReynolds, Brandon Benesch and Freddie Kraft, were all suspended for the 2024 season finale at Phoenix Raceway.

Additionally, team executives Tony Lunders, Keith Rodden and Dave Rogers were also suspended for the 2024 finale at Phoenix.

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2024/11/05/nascar-issues-major-penalties-to-three-cup-series-teams-after-martinsville/

Same as Custer and the 41 in 2022.

 

[wi_racefan]

And I think they will all gladly take that little slap on the hand. "Don't do it again boys!" LOL!

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[wi_racefan]

Also, releasing this on election day pretty much guarantees that 95% of people will forget about it by the time they get done reading it.

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[MRM]

Sunday was a true indictment of the playoff format. Something must change systemically. Suspending crew chiefs and spotters isn't going to do the trick.

Suspending drivers would make the point.

 

[sdj]

Ain't nobody here a bigger fan of Chastain than I am but, he deserves this. I lost a little respect for him that is a fact.

Question? Do you think Chevy put pressure on them to do what they did?

 

[StandOnIt]

It's not roc

Ain't nobody here a bigger fan of Chastain than I am but, he deserves this. I lost a little respect for him that is a fact.

Question? Do you think Chevy put pressure on them to do what they did?

I sure do think so. Either directly or implied, it doesn't matter. Who knows, there could be under the table money or spiffs based on teams performances by the OEM's. You can't rule out that certain teams have alliances with each other also. I don't know what Nascar expected? The first priority should be is this point system cheatable? Instead it was built on Drama.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Ain't nobody here a bigger fan of Chastain than I am but, he deserves this. I lost a little respect for him that is a fact.

Question? Do you think Chevy put pressure on them to do what they did?

I can't think of any other reason three cars would remain behind a slower one, but I'm open to suggestion. I'm not sure which meeting I'd rather eavesdrop on. The excuses in the appeal will be entertaining but the meeting with the manufacturers will be the real meat and potatoes.

 

[StandOnIt]

Suspending drivers would make the point.

`I don't see how when the OEM's and the teams are involved. I guess it is the unga runs downhill principle, lowest guy on the totem pole.

 

[MRM]

Ain't nobody here a bigger fan of Chastain than I am but, he deserves this. I lost a little respect for him that is a fact.

Question? Do you think Chevy put pressure on them to do what they did?

Yes!

 

[LewTheShoe]

I don’t think you can worry about what happened yesterday as it’s just what NASCAR has become. One week they’ll throw a yellow for an incident and the next week ignore the same thing. Race control seems to be run by Montessori students & we’ve all seen how nonsensical Nascar has been for decades. One week an uncontrolled wheel on pit road can cause a caution and the next they’ll throw the green flag when a wheel is bouncing down the racing surface. You can’t trust Nascar as they lost their integrity a long time ago. It’s just how things are.

This rant by @AlTerego is a textbook example of "gaslighting." It deserves no response.

After an investigation of the on-track data and team scanners from the final laps of Sunday‘s Round of 8 elimination race, NASCAR determined the actions of those involved violated sections 4.4.B&D: NASCAR Member Conduct of the Rule Book, which include race manipulation and actions detrimental to stock car racing.

Drivers Ross Chastain (Trackhouse Racing), Austin Dillon (Richard Childress Racing), and Bubba Wallace (23XI Racing) were each hit with a loss of 50 driver points and a $100,000 fine. In addition, NASCAR also fined the owners of each team $100,000 and deducted 50 owner points each.

Crew chiefs Phil Surgen, Justin Alexander and Bootie Barker, along with their respective spotters Brandon McReynolds, Brandon Benesch and Freddie Kraft, were all suspended for the 2024 season finale at Phoenix Raceway.

Additionally, team executives Tony Lunders, Keith Rodden and Dave Rogers were also suspended for the 2024 finale at Phoenix.

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2024/11/05/nascar-issues-major-penalties-to-three-cup-series-teams-after-martinsville/

I suppose Nascar did the best they could, given a difficult situation. Bell's wall-riding incident wasn't a full "Hail Melon," but it was clearly a violation of the rule established after Ross Chastain's 2022 maneuver. Bell didn't need to be so aggressive after he tagged the wall getting by Bubba, but he was very aggressive on the throttle while against the wall. Perhaps he didn't know the 23 was *not* going to try to cross over and take back the spot. His penalty was justified IMO.

At Martinsville last Sunday, it would be awkward to penalize the 24 and/or the 20 for the race manipulations being perpetrated by others (i.e., by the 1, 3, and 23 drivers), so Nascar chose to ignore this... and that's doubly awkward. I think Nascar should publish a new rule... cars that benefit from race manipulation are subject to DQ and other penalties, same as the cars that actually perform the race manipulations. If they had such a rule, both the 24 and 20 would be DQ'd from Martinsville results. Finally, I agree with stiff penalties for the 1, 3. and 23. Maybe suspensions for a week? Send a very clear message... Don't f**k around with the integrity of the race results.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I think Nascar should publish a new rule... cars that benefit from race manipulation are subject to DQ and other penalties, same as the cars that actually perform the race manipulations.

So I'm driving along, minding my own business, and I'm going to be penalized for something I had no control over? What am I supposed to do, slow down even more, pull out of line, and get behind them? How far back am I supposed to drop? Maybe I should just go behind the wall?

How do you enforce this at a plate race, where riding behind someone is common practice?

 

[Whizzer]

Byron did nothing wrong. If other teams of same manufacture car knowingly helped him, they should be punished, not Byron. Bell clearly rode the wall. That penalty decision was made post Chastain episode.

 

[wi_racefan]

What I find interesting about this is that while they say they care nascar is softening their stance on race manipulation.

MWR got hammered and people got indefinitely suspended.

Custer does it in Xfinity and a guy gets suspended indefinitely.

This year we get some fines, some points and stay home next week.

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[AlTerego]

This rant by @AlTerego is a textbook example of "gaslighting." It deserves no response.


I suppose Nascar did the best they could, given a difficult situation. Bell's wall-riding incident wasn't a full "Hail Melon," but it was clearly a violation of the rule established after Ross Chastain's 2022 maneuver. Bell didn't need to be so aggressive after he tagged the wall getting by Bubba, but he was very aggressive on the throttle while against the wall. Perhaps he didn't know the 23 was *not* going to try to cross over and take back the spot. His penalty was justified IMO.

At Martinsville last Sunday, it would be awkward to penalize the 24 and/or the 20 for the race manipulations being perpetrated by others (i.e., by the 1, 3, and 23 drivers), so Nascar chose to ignore this... and that's doubly awkward. I think Nascar should publish a new rule... cars that benefit from race manipulation are subject to DQ and other penalties, same as the cars that actually perform the race manipulations. If they had such a rule, both the 24 and 20 would be DQ'd from Martinsville results. Finally, I agree with stiff penalties for the 1, 3. and 23. Maybe suspensions for a week? Send a very clear message... Don't f**k around with the integrity of the race results.

If you think that was a rant you should see it when I really get going

 

[AlTerego]

So I'm driving along, minding my own business, and I'm going to be penalized for something I had no control over? What am I supposed to do, slow down even more, pull out of line, and get behind them? How far back am I supposed to drop? Maybe I should just go behind the wall?

How do you enforce this at a plate race, where riding behind someone is common practice?

I agree. I think what @LewTheShoe proposed would lead to other types of manipulation so you would just be trading one set of problems for another.

 

[wi_racefan]

So I'm driving along, minding my own business, and I'm going to be penalized for something I had no control over? What am I supposed to do, slow down even more, pull out of line, and get behind them? How far back am I supposed to drop? Maybe I should just go behind the wall?

How do you enforce this at a plate race, where riding behind someone is common practice?

Well I can assure you in both situations the 20 and 24 knew exactly what was going on.

IMO you have to punish them. It's kind of like saying it's ok for a driver to win in a cheated up car as long as he didn't know it was cheated up.

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[Whizzer]

Well I can assure you in both situations the 20 and 24 knew exactly what was going on.

IMO you have to punish them. It's kind of like saying it's ok for a driver to win in a cheated up car as long as he didn't know it was cheated up.

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Okay. I'm confused. Byron drove as hard as he could to stay ahead of Bell. He had drivers in Chevrolets blocking others from passing him.
Is he guilty of knowing exactly what he was doing?
What did Byron do wrong?

 

[Big John Kordic]

I don’t think you can worry about what happened yesterday as it’s just what NASCAR has become. One week they’ll throw a yellow for an incident and the next week ignore the same thing. Race control seems to be run by Montessori students & we’ve all seen how nonsensical Nascar has been for decades. One week an uncontrolled wheel on pit road can cause a caution and the next they’ll throw the green flag when a wheel is bouncing down the racing surface. You can’t trust Nascar as they lost their integrity a long time ago. It’s just how things are.

If race control was, in fact, run by Montessori students, what transpired on Sunday would not have.

 

[LewTheShoe]

Okay. I'm confused. Byron drove as hard as he could to stay ahead of Bell. He had drivers in Chevrolets blocking others from passing him.
Is he guilty of knowing exactly what he was doing?
What did Byron do wrong?

Byron did nothing wrong, but he did benefit from the illegal race manipulations performed by others on his behalf. That cannot stand. He should be penalized for "receiving stolen goods," so to speak.