2021 Silly Season

Charlie Spencer said:
Rightly or wrongly, the charter system has an effect. Sponsorship too.
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36 car system, but a team like Gaunt Brothers Racing NEED a charter next season. I can only imagine what the financial situation is for them without it. I wonder of the RTA would be willing to create new charters if the demand is there?
 
Need to get back to 43 car fields. Costs need to come down to promote easier entry for new owners. Nascar and the tracks needs to distribute more of the tv and ticket revenue to the teams, thats the biggest problem! Owners shouldnt be losing money just to field competitive teams. It doesnt work that way in any sport. Bad teams make money and good teams make more money
 
Drivers make money. Nascar tracks make money. Nascar sanctioning body makes a ton of money especially from tv. Owners lose money. Does nobody see whats wrong with this picture
Owners keep this sport alive so they deserve a bigger piece of the pie and we need more of them so we need to take steps to get more owners involved for the health of nascars future. As far as how to do that idk. Not my job to figure that out. Look at the past success of the 80s 90s what you did right back then and what you done wrong ever since. With the salary these guys earn they need to be better at this. No reason why nascar cant be successful like it was in the past
No excuses
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm afraid Matt be at least on the hot seat in the 21. With Briscoe and Cindric both appearing to be at the point that more time in the Xfinity series really won't be beneficial to their development Ford needs to put them somewhere.

Maybe one spot open at RFR depending on what happens with Ryan? Maybe the 34 or the 38? But I can't say I'd be getting rid of JHN
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I mean is anyone that attached to Michael McDowell?
 
kkfan91 said:
I mean is anyone that attached to Michael McDowell?
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McDowell has taken a major step forward though this season. He and JHN have been a solid duo and McDowell I think has been a solid benchmark for the two.

I really would like to have seen Tifft in a second season with FRM, too.
 
Kiante said:
McDowell has taken a major step forward though this season. He and JHN have been a solid duo and McDowell I think has been a solid benchmark for the two.

I really would like to have seen Tifft in a second season with FRM, too.
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I'm just saying if we are looking at Ford rides I think McDowell would be expendable unless Loves is giving then that much money tied to him.

Unfortunately I think Tiffts career may be over he was still trying to get to the bottom of his health issues last I saw.
 
kkfan91 said:
I'm just saying if we are looking at Ford rides I think McDowell would be expendable unless Loves is giving then that much money tied to him.

Unfortunately I think Tiffts career may be over he was still trying to get to the bottom of his health issues last I saw.
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Love's a long-time sponsor of Front Row. I think Love's one of the first long-term sponsors to sign with FRM years ago, I'm guessing they really like McDowell and wanted him to stay on I'm guessing.

McDowell probably is the most expendable Ford driver out of the bunch, but depending if guys like Cindric and Briscoe have the money necessary to replace McDowell, I don't see him going anywhere as of right now without it.
 
12 owners with 3 teams each and a 36 race season. The driver that doesn't win a race in any given year is replaced. :biggrin:
 
kyle busch 18 said:
Need to get back to 43 car fields. Costs need to come down to promote easier entry for new owners. Nascar and the tracks needs to distribute more of the tv and ticket revenue to the teams, thats the biggest problem! Owners shouldnt be losing money just to field competitive teams. It doesnt work that way in any sport. Bad teams make money and good teams make more money
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This. Every major revenue sport shares/splits tv money with the teams and players. Well, everyone but NASCAR. Especially when teams are desperate for sponsors and NASCAR would actively come in and say “why would you sponsor X when you could be the ‘Official widget of NASCAR?’”
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
This. Every major revenue sport shares/splits tv money with the teams and players. Well, everyone but NASCAR. Especially when teams are desperate for sponsors and NASCAR would actively come in and say “why would you sponsor X when you could be the ‘Official widget of NASCAR?’”
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You do make a good point I think NASCAR is hurting the teams by pimping themselves out to so many sponsors. Why put my name on a car when I can be the official whatever of NASCAR and that guarantees I'll be mentioned however many times per race.

I just looked at the NASCAR website and they have 41 official partners. Official weather company? They have an official moonshine and vodka? Seriously
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
This. Every major revenue sport shares/splits tv money with the teams and players. Well, everyone but NASCAR. Especially when teams are desperate for sponsors and NASCAR would actively come in and say “why would you sponsor X when you could be the ‘Official widget of NASCAR?’”
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NASCAR changed their marketing stance to give more visibility to brands heavily involved with the sport.

Comcast, Coca-Cola brands, GEICO, and Busch all do it. They not only have brand visibility as the Premier sponsors, but they also sponsor teams directly to further the footprint into the sport. They spend a lot, but fans alike back the brands and that's what sponsors want is visibility and ROI.

Mars Incorportated sponsors JGR and is a tier-partner with NASCAR, it all depends on the company. We see sponsorship is completely different from what we used to see, but NASCAR has to make money themselves to stay in business.

The new system looks like it has been pretty solid for the most part and NASCAR is still trying to find more brands, but it all depends on what the company wants to do in terms of marketing and what they are willing to spend. Some are just doing more than others and its the way of business, I don't see it as pimping as some see. Teams ask for a lot of money, but if a company is willing to spend as a "Official XXX of NASCAR" and they get the necessary support it could lead to them marketing for teams or vice versa. It's also why NASCAR started this system, if a brand is getting all of this attention it could bring similar brands along.

It's all craziness though, we see it with Advance Auto Parts sponsoring the NASCAR weekly series and their increased footprint. NAPA is a long time partner in NASCAR, but guess who is going to get the priority in terms of advertisement? Certainly not NAPA, O'Reilly's, or any other parts store brand. Look at Kroger, Monster, and NOS energy. NASCAR was their springboard into the South for their brands. Kroger's are all over the Southeast now compared to five or six years ago, we need some in Florida. I work at Wal-Mart, but I'd run to Kroger's in a heartbeat because their heavy involvement with the sport.

At the same time, this is where fans come in when we see the ads... Go and support brands the best way you know how to.
 
kyle busch 18 said:
Need to get back to 43 car fields. Costs need to come down to promote easier entry for new owners. Nascar and the tracks needs to distribute more of the tv and ticket revenue to the teams, thats the biggest problem! Owners shouldnt be losing money just to field competitive teams. It doesnt work that way in any sport. Bad teams make money and good teams make more money
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Get rid of the 4 car rule.
 
kyle busch 18 said:
Costs need to come down to promote easier entry for new owners. Nascar and the tracks needs to distribute more of the tv and ticket revenue to the teams, thats the biggest problem! Owners shouldnt be losing money just to field competitive teams. It doesnt work that way in any sport. Bad teams make money and good teams make more money
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What I found amusing listening to the DJD was that Jeff Dickerson kept talking in circles when discussing the charters. He said that the Spire group basically purchased the charters from the 95 and the 78 because they shopped them around and couldn't find anyone willing to buy them. Then he goes on to say that the price of charters is increasing and that they could sell them right now because people both currently in the sport and looking to get into have shown lots of interest in the charters.

So which is it??? They going up in price and in demand or did you buy them because you couldn't find a buyer?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
wi_racefan said:
What I found amusing listening to the DJD was that Jeff Dickerson kept talking in circles when discussing the charters. He said that the Spire group basically purchased the charters from the 95 and the 78 because they shopped them around and couldn't find anyone willing to buy them. Then he goes on to say that the price of charters is increasing and that they could sell them right now because people both currently in the sport and looking to get into have shown lots of interest in the charters.

So which is it??? They going up in price and in demand or did you buy them because you couldn't find a buyer?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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that was my takeaway as well. He really came off bad listening to him ramble. I’ve never heard someone use so many words to absolutely say nothing at all.

sounds to me like they’re in this just hoping the charters are worth more sometime down the line... so they can make a profit
 
JGR_20 said:
that was my takeaway as well. He really came off bad listening to him ramble. I’ve never heard someone use so many words to absolutely say nothing at all.

sounds to me like they’re in this just hoping the charters are worth more sometime down the line... so they can make a profit
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To me it sounds like they're trying to prop up the value of the charters for the other teams they represent on the marketing side. Once a couple charters sell for next to nothing all the charters take a dramatic drop in value.

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one thing was clear... Dickerson is not in this 100% for the racing. Jeff DOESN'T wanna’ to say it though.
 
The Spire thing is really weird. It was bought at the highest price for a charter yet (~ $6M) and within a year and a half they hand over the operations to Rick Ware, and then go out and buy another charter that doesn’t include any cars. At least they have a shop, and I suppose that could be them punting to NexGen, but it does seem odd how much they say they believe in the business model given that they invest and don’t really do or have anything.
 
Team Penske said:
One thing I don't understand is If HMS was asking 30 million to sponsor Junior, you mean to say he couldn't run 2 cars from that money?
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Lets face it Leavine's eyes were bigger than his stomach. You can't be not making anything and buying it all unless you have really deep pockets.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It was bought at the highest price for a charter yet (~ $6M)
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I believe a big part of the value for that particular charter was the high guaranteed purse payouts due to that team in subsequent years, being a recent champion and perennial playoffs team.

Spire's gamble is that the common supplier framework of the Next Gen car radically reduces the barriers to entry and competitiveness. That much is obvious. Whether their plan is long term team ownership or to sell at a profit when the business model improves is less so.
 
gnomesayin said:
I believe a big part of the value for that particular charter was the high guaranteed purse payouts due to that team in subsequent years, being a recent champion and perennial playoffs team.

Spire's gamble is that the common supplier framework of the Next Gen car radically reduces the barriers to entry and competitiveness. That much is obvious. Whether their plan is long term team ownership or to sell at a profit when the business model improves is less so.
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@gnomesayin's analysis of Spire is exactly right. Spire paid up for the Visser #78 charter, and used borrowed money to do it. And over time, the value of that charter plummets because Spire is not maintaining the historical performance level that Furniture Row had done. (The charter-related cash flows shrink as the prior three-year history comprises less Visser performance and more Spire performance.) I for one will be surprised if the Next Gen cost structure alone is enough to make Spire viable. They are gonna need to sell some sponsorship, I suspect.
 
LewTheShoe said:
@gnomesayin's analysis of Spire is exactly right. Spire paid up for the Visser #78 charter, and used borrowed money to do it. And over time, the value of that charter plummets because Spire is not maintaining the historical performance level that Furniture Row had done. (The charter-related cash flows shrink as the prior three-year history comprises less Visser performance and more Spire performance.) I for one will be surprised if the Next Gen cost structure alone is enough to make Spire viable. They are gonna need to sell some sponsorship, I suspect.
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That's the primary issue and what Spire fails to realize. They have to be a bit more competitive to get that type of exposure, Spire is usually meddling in the 30s' from week to week. They are going to have to show some sort of improvement or lose value of the charter as time progresses.

This is why I wanted Gaunt Brother Racing to get that damn charter. They have a good system in place, shows improvement from last season, a least a top 25 team and actually has pace compared to the Spire team. They show promise in actually improving in shorter time as well.

The Next Gen is car is not going to be an instantaneous fix in performance and parity. That was the issue last year with the increased downforce, smaller teams thought they were going to be all of a sudden competitive.
 
Kiante said:
This came out of nowhere:


This article from SBJ is on Justin Marks' vision for his team and his goal of pushing STEM for the next generation. Dude, I'm amped if Justin Marks can make this a reality.
www.sportsbusinessdaily.com

Former NASCAR Driver Justin Marks Creating Cup Series Team

www.sportsbusinessdaily.com www.sportsbusinessdaily.com
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That’s a hell of an Adam bomb. :oops:

Sounds like an interesting project. Hopefully he can find a charter somewhere. I think when he retired he said something about team ownership, didn’t think it would be so soon and right to the Cup level though.
 
Snappy D said:
There needs to be more car owners honestly imo, maybe 1-2 more with 2 cars each. GOOD car owners, thats why what Spire is doing has me optimistic
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It would be nice, but realize that the primary reason we got to the four car teams in the first place is economy of scale. Every team has a certain amount of fixed costs that are there whether they field one car or ten. CNC machines, 7 post rigs, your front office people, engineering staff, your building, it goes on and on. The new cars MAY change that somewhat, but it's a fact in EVERY business. The more business you do, the cheaper you can do it on a per unit basis.
 
Kiante said:
This came out of nowhere:


This article from SBJ is on Justin Marks' vision for his team and his goal of pushing STEM for the next generation. Dude, I'm amped if Justin Marks can make this a reality.
www.sportsbusinessdaily.com

Former NASCAR Driver Justin Marks Creating Cup Series Team

www.sportsbusinessdaily.com www.sportsbusinessdaily.com
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woah wait. I thought it was almost impossible to have a cup team these days, the charter system is all screwed up, Spire this n that, can't survive running in the back of the field? Anybody examined this young man's head? One of these days some people will realize that some drivers/teams are artists of saving a buck and making money doing it.
 
Once again I see comments about the 2022 Next Gen car. A lot of the small teams are banking on it. I really hope its going to help and change the business model in NASCAR.
 
kyle busch 18 said:
Drivers make money. Nascar tracks make money. Nascar sanctioning body makes a ton of money especially from tv. Owners lose money. Does nobody see whats wrong with this picture
Owners keep this sport alive so they deserve a bigger piece of the pie and we need more of them so we need to take steps to get more owners involved for the health of nascars future. As far as how to do that idk. Not my job to figure that out. Look at the past success of the 80s 90s what you did right back then and what you done wrong ever since. With the salary these guys earn they need to be better at this. No reason why nascar cant be successful like it was in the past
No excuses
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Understand that there are basically two kind of owners: Those that can afford to spend what they need to have success (Penske Hendrick, Haas), and those that will spend money they probably shouldn't to either catch them or keep up with them until they finally decide they don't want to do it any more (Visser, Leavine). The guys at the top have decided that winning is more important to them than making money, and that puts pressure on everybody else that has to live in their world. You could double the revenue for most of these guys and they would just turn around and dump it into their teams. NASCAR has made a LOT of mistakes, but it's not entirely their fault that many of these team struggle financially. Some of these teams have no business BEING in Cup, but if they drop down, the cost/revenue/value delta gets worse. In 2004, I had a chance to work for a guy that had enough money to field a top 3-4 ARCA team, but he was enamored by the exposure that he felt the Truck Series offered for his business and insisted on trying to compete there. I knew this was going to be a disaster and opted out, effectively ended my involvement in racing. After a half season of getting his ass handed to him in the Truck Series, he took his money and left.
 
Formerjackman said:
It would be nice, but realize that the primary reason we got to the four car teams in the first place is economy of scale. Every team has a certain amount of fixed costs that are there whether they field one car or ten. CNC machines, 7 post rigs, your front office people, engineering staff, your building, it goes on and on. The new cars MAY change that somewhat, but it's a fact in EVERY business. The more business you do, the cheaper you can do it on a per unit basis.
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IMO, it looks like 3 cars is better than 4 especially if your counting on sponsors to fund all the costs.
 
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