2022 Silly Season

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
51,799
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
JTG said this year they only had 24 races sponsored for the Preece/open car at the start of the season. With one top 5 and a total of only 4 top tens for a team that has to rely on reduced purses to stay alive and frankly shows no signs of getting better, it's best to put it out of it's misery.

They can put more resources into the car they have. They have a lot of up front expenditures buying the new car next year
 

Team Penske

Team Owner
Joined
Jan 16, 2015
Messages
7,242
Points
643
JTG said this year they only had 24 races sponsored for the Preece/open car at the start of the season. With one top 5 and a total of only 4 top tens for a team that has to rely on reduced purses to stay alive and frankly shows no signs of getting better, it's best to put it out of it's misery.

They can put more resources into the car they have. They have a lot of up front expenditures buying the new car next year
I doubt they have ever put enough resources in to make it a winning car and I have never read anywhere that they have tried to sign a top 10 driver.
 

LewTheShoe

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
4,154
Points
593
The charters have value. They were meant to tighten competition so that teams who are dedicated will will have a guaranteed spot in the lineup each weekend. This is what makes them valuable.

The idea that a team like JTG gets knocked a charter due to finances is pretty much the antithesis to what the charters were meant to do. This is their 12th full time season.
What does it mean, in English please, to get "knocked a charter?" When charters were established in 2016, Nascar knocked one straight to JTG-D as they were a full-time team in the base period 2013-15. JTG-D was rewarded for their investment made in the base period, and they still have that asset on their balance sheet.

BTW, charters are a lot more than a guaranteed starting spot (although that is valuable, as the Wood Brothers learned when their very fast car driven by Blaney missed multiple races when qualifying got rained out). Charters also boost total revenue to chartered teams and create steady revenue streams for part of it. But this was more about team survival than it was about competitive parity, and it was never about diversity at all.

JTG-D bought a second charter in 2018 from Barney Visser, and sold it last winter to Spire. Is that what is meant by getting knocked?

The charter system was implemented as one part of Nascar's effort to mitigate the greatest long-term risk they faced... the highly uncertain supply of quality race teams to show up every damned week to put on the show. When the fad-fueled Nascar bubble burst about 2005-07, and high dollar sponsorship became tough to find, the result was that team ownership was not viable economically.

Circa 2015-16, this situation was worse than ever before, and even coke-addled Brian France could see it. The existing team owners were mostly quite elderly, were mostly in the sport based on passion and inertia, and there weren't any new team owners sniffing around who were ready, willing, and able to put on the show every week... and the mid-field teams were mostly on the cliff financially.

The objectives of the charter system were (1) to shore up existing team finances by a moderate degree; (2) to create an exit pathway i.e. a terminal value in the cash flow stream; which (3) would make the sport more attractive to investor/operators not currently in the sport. As @aunty dive observed up above... it has worked as intended. Charters plus the new car work together to make team ownership a little less risky, a little more lucrative, and the result so far has been a welcome stream of new entrants.

So how is this whole deal somehow to the detriment of JTG-D? Their charter is worth a lot more than they paid for it, and there is nothing about it that detracts from the fan experience. Their only regret is probably that they sold the second charter a year too soon for maximum (so far) appreciation.
 

Speedbowl14

Ryan Preece and short tracks
Joined
May 18, 2014
Messages
1,853
Points
443
Location
Connecticut
Preece is out at JTG next season with no full-time offers in any national series at the moment. Big sad

 

ChexOrWrex

Ya gotta wanna
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
27,102
Points
883
Preece is out at JTG next season with no full-time offers in any national series at the moment. Big sad

27th in points. What a mediocre talent. Doesn’t deserve a Cup ride. :sarcasm:

Seriously, this is a loss in the talent department of the NASCAR Cup series if he doesn’t land a seat before next February.
 

Old Kid

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Messages
1,689
Points
173
Location
Central Ohio
Preece is out at JTG next season with no full-time offers in any national series at the moment. Big sad

He's better than that ride anyway. I hope he gets something good.
 

ChexOrWrex

Ya gotta wanna
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
27,102
Points
883
Who is replacing Denny in the 11?
Henny Damlin

1630623761453.jpeg
 

LewTheShoe

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
4,154
Points
593
Many people like Ryan Preece (myself included) because he took a different route to Nascar's top level versus what has become the norm in recent decades. He is older and has deep experience in regional semi-pro racing, i.e. the New England paved modified scene. Folks who follow the pavement mods knew him back home, and were pulling for him to succeed in the big show. Northeast sponsors funded his Xfinity rides at Joe Gibbs Racing, which led to JTG-Daugherty, a solid mid-field team.

It's an old school route to Nascar. It resonates with people who roll their eyes at high school kids in the truck series (after karts > legends > late models, starting at 8 years old).

It's a pyramid. It's very wide at the bottom and very small at the top. Many local racing stars never get a legitimite shot to move up. Some drivers get a shot but don't last long term. Only a very few establish themselves as stars.

Preece got a shot - a good shot for three years full time - and he hasn't made a compelling case for himself. His problem isn't lack of money, it's lack of results and clear potential. Just my dos centavos.
 

ChexOrWrex

Ya gotta wanna
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
27,102
Points
883
Preece got a shot - a good shot for three years full time - and he hasn't made a compelling case for himself. His problem isn't lack of money, it's lack of results and clear potential. Just my dos centavos.
I agreed all the way until this. Let’s not act like JTG Racing is anywhere near competitive. Put him in a car with speed, and he gets results. His Xfinity results speak to that.

There are a handful of drivers who have top 10 talent and for whatever reason carry very little to no sponsorship with them. That is the major malfunction, not the showcasing of talent.
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
51,799
Points
883
Location
yoooklahoma
Good in depth article for a change
Going down to one car I think. I can't see anybody else than McDowell driving it:



The future, one containing a new car and potentially a new schedule, could see a shift in the number of the organization’s charters and perhaps a new technical alliance moving forward. While rumors of different outcomes fly, Freeze insists that Front Row will remain in the Cup Series with an eye towards improved results and more playoff appearances.


“We’ve had a lot of conversations going back to March, really, about Front Row and a different dynamic,” Freeze said. “But Front Row will be in the Cup Series. We’re not going out of business.

 

Kiante

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
20,074
Points
883
Location
Florida
Stenhouse who JTG is going to keep has a worse record than Preece so they aren't going by racing records it looks like.
I hate to tell you, but Stenhouse has been the better driver for the past two years.

Preece has more top 10s however, Stenhouse's consistency is hard to ignore here. Stenhouse I think has finally come around in terms of not trying to over drive. Daughtery sent that message LC last season to both drivers.
 

LewTheShoe

Team Owner
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
4,154
Points
593
I agreed all the way until this. Let’s not act like JTG Racing is anywhere near competitive. Put him in a car with speed, and he gets results. His Xfinity results speak to that.

There are a handful of drivers who have top 10 talent and for whatever reason carry very little to no sponsorship with them. That is the major malfunction, not the showcasing of talent.
LOL. Yesterday you were arguing that JTG-D was so worthy that Nascar should grant them an extra charter when JTG-D decided to add a second car, 15 years of dedication, blah, blah. Today they're so bad that running 27th shows great talent, blah, blah.

Of course they are competitive. They're not expected to compete *for wins* on a regular basis, but the 47 and the 37 compete against other mid-field teams and they compete against each other... every damn week. Both Buescher and Stenhouse are top-20 in points, but Preece is 27th (26th and 29th the prior two years). And according to insightful analysis provided by @Speedbowl14, even those positions are propped up by good results at plate tracks... not exactly a ringing endorsement for a driver's weekly bona fides IMO.

It is laughable that you claim Preece is a top-10 Cup talent. Man, I want some of what you are drinking, LOL. He hasn't scored near his teammate any year, Buescher in 2019, Stenhouse in 2020 and 2021 (see data below).

Concerning sponsorship... at the top level, funding the team is the owner's job, not the driver's job. That is the tradition, and even today the exceptions to that general rule are rare among front-running and mid-field teams. We've just heard announcements of Trackhouse signing Chastain who brings no money. We just heard Petty re-signed Erik Jones, who brings no money. Pockrass just said JTG is re-signing Stenhouse, who brings no money.

It's different down on the development ladder. That's like being in college, and ya gotta pay the tuition. Once you graduate, for the most part the company you work for is expected to pay for your service. (A few sports have taxpayer funding of the development ladder, but racing isn't among them.)

Ryan PreeceChris Buescher
Head-to-Head
9 wins​
27 wins​
Actual Race Stats
Wins
0​
0​
Top 5's
1​
0​
Top 10's
3​
4​
Avg. Finish
23.1​
17.8​


Ryan PreeceRicky Stenhouse, Jr.
Head-to-Head
24 wins​
38 wins​
Actual Race Stats
Wins
0​
0​
Top 5's
1​
4​
Top 10's
6​
6​
Avg. Finish
23.4​
20.9​
 
Last edited:

Kiante

Team Owner
Joined
Sep 6, 2013
Messages
20,074
Points
883
Location
Florida
@LewTheShoe

Stenhouse brings in money from NOS and Little Hugs. NOS has been a personal sponsor for Ricky for a long time and Little Hugs followed him from Roush.
 

ChexOrWrex

Ya gotta wanna
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
27,102
Points
883
LOL. Yesterday you were arguing that JTG-D was so worthy that Nascar should grant them an extra charter when JTG-D decided to add a second car, 15 years of dedication, blah, blah. Today they're so bad that running 27th shows great talent, blah, blah.

Of course they are competitive. They're not expected to compete *for wins* on a regular basis, but the 47 and the 37 compete against other mid-field teams and they compete against each other... every damn week. Both Buescher and Stenhouse are top-20 in points, but Preece is 27th (26th and 29th the prior two years). And according to insightful analysis provided by @Speedbowl14, even those positions are propped up by good results at plate tracks... not exactly a ringing endorsement for a driver's weekly bona fides IMO.

It is laughable that you claim Preece is a top-10 Cup talent. Man, I want some of what you are drinking, LOL. He hasn't scored near his teammate any year, Buescher in 2019, Stenhouse in 2020 and 2021.

Concerning sponsorship... at the top level, funding the team is the owner's job, not the driver's job. That is the tradition, and even today, the exceptions to that general rule are rare among front-running and mid-field teams. We've just heard announcements of Trackhouse signing Chastain who brings no money. We just heard Petty re-signed Erik Jones, who brings no money. Pockrass just said JTG is re-signing Stenhouse, who brings no money.

It's different down on the development ladder. That's like being in college, and ya gotta pay the tuition. Once you graduate, for the most part the company you work for is expected to pay for your service. (A few sports have taxpayer funding of the development ladder, but racing isn't among them.)

Ryan PreeceChris Buescher
Head-to-Head
9 wins​
27 wins​
Actual Race Stats
Wins
0​
0​
Top 5's
1​
0​
Top 10's
3​
4​
Avg. Finish
23.1​
17.8​


Ryan PreeceRicky Stenhouse, Jr.
Head-to-Head
24 wins​
38 wins​
Actual Race Stats
Wins
0​
0​
Top 5's
1​
4​
Top 10's
6​
6​
Avg. Finish
23.4​
20.9​
There are so many goalposts moved here the field has been ripped up.

First off, a team’s competitiveness has nothing to do with their charters status. If this was true, RWR and Spire would have zero charters. Their charters status was awarded based on consistent dedication to weekly showings. These two things are not equatable.

Second, teams “being competitive” is always referred to as being competitive for wins & quality finishes. Nobody references it as being competitive with other teammates lol.

Third, at no point did I say Preece is top 10 talent. You inferred that.

Completely ignoring the equipment a driver has and critiquing their performance as “lacking results” just isn’t a fair critique. The same goes for ignoring the fact that this is a money first sport, not talent.
 

aunty dive

Team Owner
Contributor
Joined
Mar 17, 2014
Messages
28,068
Points
883
LOL. Yesterday you were arguing that JTG-D was so worthy that Nascar should grant them an extra charter when JTG-D decided to add a second car, 15 years of dedication, blah, blah. Today they're so bad that running 27th shows great talent, blah, blah.

Of course they are competitive. They're not expected to compete *for wins* on a regular basis, but the 47 and the 37 compete against other mid-field teams and they compete against each other... every damn week. Both Buescher and Stenhouse are top-20 in points, but Preece is 27th (26th and 29th the prior two years). And according to insightful analysis provided by @Speedbowl14, even those positions are propped up by good results at plate tracks... not exactly a ringing endorsement for a driver's weekly bona fides IMO.

It is laughable that you claim Preece is a top-10 Cup talent. Man, I want some of what you are drinking, LOL. He hasn't scored near his teammate any year, Buescher in 2019, Stenhouse in 2020 and 2021 (see data below).

Concerning sponsorship... at the top level, funding the team is the owner's job, not the driver's job. That is the tradition, and even today the exceptions to that general rule are rare among front-running and mid-field teams. We've just heard announcements of Trackhouse signing Chastain who brings no money. We just heard Petty re-signed Erik Jones, who brings no money. Pockrass just said JTG is re-signing Stenhouse, who brings no money.

It's different down on the development ladder. That's like being in college, and ya gotta pay the tuition. Once you graduate, for the most part the company you work for is expected to pay for your service. (A few sports have taxpayer funding of the development ladder, but racing isn't among them.)

Ryan PreeceChris Buescher
Head-to-Head
9 wins​
27 wins​
Actual Race Stats
Wins
0​
0​
Top 5's
1​
0​
Top 10's
3​
4​
Avg. Finish
23.1​
17.8​


Ryan PreeceRicky Stenhouse, Jr.
Head-to-Head
24 wins​
38 wins​
Actual Race Stats
Wins
0​
0​
Top 5's
1​
4​
Top 10's
6​
6​
Avg. Finish
23.4​
20.9​
BOOM 😎
 
Top Bottom