2022 Silly Season

Spire is actually a semi-competitive team after being in since 2017.

They have solid driver(s) they can build around or they could lease the charter to 23XI or GMS. Spire is buying that StarCom charter at a cheaper price.

23XI would probably seek interest in it and with leasing Spire's charter can boost the price. Depending on where the charter is located at the end of the season.

Spire may not have the best track record, but the owners are savvy.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
I tend to agree he won't get a good enough Cup ride next season. I also agree he'll get a decent ride in Xfinity or Trucks. I think he could be great for grooming rookies.
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Absolutely, he would be a valuable driver for DGR and or lets say SHR on the Xfinity side.

Not to mention, I feel the reduced downforce of the Xfinity or Truck suits Ryan's style of driving more. Also, it could leave more time for his Modified scheduling as well.
 
aunty dive said:
It’s the business model of pro sports everywhere.

The idea that the owners of multi-million dollar NASCAR race teams should operate like hillbillies is embarrassing.
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I’m merely pointing out that the system seems to be keeping ****boxes like Rick Ware and Spire afloat at the expense of vested competitive teams like JTG. Which wasn’t what was intended. Those organizations have brought nothing to the Cup garage. Other than gobbling up a bunch of charters when they weren’t worth much.

Otherwise I agree. It’s no different than the NFL or NBA.

Honestly, Denny/MJ, Dale Jr. and Mo Gallagher just need to nut up and buy out these clowns. That’s how Justin Marks secured his foothold in the garage. They have the money.
 
Kiante said:
Spire is actually a semi-competitive team after being in since 2017.

They have solid driver(s) they can build around or they could lease the charter to 23XI or GMS. Spire is buying that StarCom charter at a cheaper price.

23XI would probably seek interest in it and with leasing Spire's charter can boost the price. Depending on where the charter is located at the end of the season.

Spire may not have the best track record, but the owners are savvy.
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They are business savvy because they are a marketing agency. Not legitimate Cup series owners. 100% that 2nd charter gets leased IMO.

LaJoie will likely continue to ride around in 25th. And they are losing Haley (who I like) to a legitimate operation next season. My guess is the 77 will be back as an open car with a revolving door of Smithley, Houff and whatever other ARCA level guys show up with money.
 
JBone88 said:
I’m merely pointing out that the system seems to be keeping ****boxes like Rick Ware and Spire afloat at the expense of vested competitive teams like JTG. Which wasn’t what was intended. Those organizations have brought nothing to the Cup garage. Other than gobbling up a bunch of charters when they weren’t worth much.

Otherwise I agree. It’s no different than the NFL or NBA.

Honestly, Denny/MJ, Dale Jr. and Mo Gallagher just need to nut up and buy out these clowns. That’s how Justin Marks secured his foothold in the garage. They have the money.
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Rick Ware and Spire will disappear in due course.

At some point, they’ll get offers they can’t refuse.
 
He's right, why have 2 cars wrecking every week?
So if they are going to have a real strong team next year, who will be the driver?
 
Yeah, the charters work just like franchises in other sports. They subsidize mediocrity and allows teams to make money without having to make any attempt to improve their on field performance. Rick Ware may be the NASCAR poster child for this, but he is far from the only one doing it. Pardon me if I that business model fails to impress me.
 
Formerjackman said:
Yeah, the charters work just like franchises in other sports. They subsidize mediocrity and allows teams to make money without having to make any attempt to improve their on field performance. Rick Ware may be the NASCAR poster child for this, but he is far from the only one doing it. Pardon me if I that business model fails to impress me.
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The charter system has a mechanism for transferring the 'franchise' if the team repeatedly performs poorly. No, it hasn't been exercised yet and we don't know if NASCAR will actually pull the trigger if the circumstances permit, but at least it's theoretically possible. Rick Ware may have wound up forcing a decision at the end of the year but since he's selling two (the lowest performing ones, I presume), it may be a while before we see NASCAR yank someone's paper.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
The charter system has a mechanism for transferring the 'franchise' if the team repeatedly performs poorly. No, it hasn't been exercised yet and we don't know if NASCAR will actually pull the trigger if the circumstances permit, but at least it's theoretically possible. Rick Ware may have wound up forcing a decision at the end of the year but since he's selling two (the lowest performing ones, I presume), it may be a while before we see NASCAR yank someone's paper.
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The threshold to have a franchise yanked is so low as to make it nearly meaningless.
 
Kiante said:
Spire is actually a semi-competitive team after being in since 2017.

They have solid driver(s) they can build around or they could lease the charter to 23XI or GMS. Spire is buying that StarCom charter at a cheaper price.

23XI would probably seek interest in it and with leasing Spire's charter can boost the price. Depending on where the charter is located at the end of the season.

Spire may not have the best track record, but the owners are savvy.
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When Spire joined they took over FRR's charter and fielded a car out of Jay Robinson's shop, at the beginning of this year they bought Kulwicki's old shop and their pace has improved a lot since.
I guess their new charter will be leased, perhaps it's going to be used by the new 45 car.
I don't mind StarCom leaving the sport, I was rooting for them when Cassill drove but they took a major step backwards by hiring Houff.

Let's not forget Spire actually has a Cup win.
 
Formerjackman said:
The threshold to have a franchise yanked is so low as to make it nearly meaningless.
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IMO The charter system completely goes against the spirit of competition. At least with the previous top 30 rule teams had to maintain some level of competitiveness in order to have a guaranteed starting spot.

Imagine how embarrassingly slow some of the times would be if we actually had qualifying

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wi_racefan said:
IMO The charter system completely goes against the spirit of competition. At least with the previous top 30 rule teams had to maintain some level of competitiveness in order to have a guaranteed starting spot.

Imagine how embarrassingly slow some of the times would be if we actually had qualifying

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I didn't think the charter systems were about competition
 
StandOnIt said:
I didn't think the charter systems were about competition
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This is incorrect. They were precisely designed to keep competition tight by guaranteeing starting spots and revenue for select teams deemed competitive enough. The 36 charters were originally awarded to teams based on a study NASCAR performed that evaluated each team’s dedication to qualifying and racing each race of the season for a certain number of previous years.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
This is incorrect. They were precisely designed to keep competition tight by guaranteeing starting spots and revenue for select teams deemed competitive enough. The 36 charters were originally awarded to teams based on a study NASCAR performed that evaluated each team’s dedication to qualifying and racing each race of the season for a certain number of previous years.
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I thought they were designed to improve value. I haven't heard of one selling for more because the team was doing better than the competition
 
ChexOrWrex said:
This is incorrect. They were precisely designed to keep competition tight by guaranteeing starting spots and revenue for select teams deemed competitive enough. The 36 charters were originally awarded to teams based on a study NASCAR performed that evaluated each team’s dedication to qualifying and racing each race of the season for a certain number of previous years.
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Charters were awarded to the 36 teams that appeared at every race in 2013, 2014 and 2015.

Tommy Baldwin got one. The study took 10 minutes.
 
StandOnIt said:
I thought they were designed to improve value. I haven't heard of one selling for more because the team was doing better than the competition
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It's a business model that works everywhere.

In 1967, the Philadelphia Flyers organization paid $2 million for an expansion franchise. The owners of The Seattle Kraken (love that name) recently paid $650 million for the same thing.
 
Charters don't function much like professional team sports franchises. The latter are exclusive rights to a geographic area and local market within a cooperative national business. The owners of the franchises collectively own the league.

It's very different. The charters are licenses with rights bargained for between the license holders and the actual owners of the league. F1 has constructor licenses too. They are fine and probably necessary and beneficial, but they have little in common with the structure of professional sports teams.
 
Formerjackman said:
The threshold to have a franchise yanked is so low as to make it nearly meaningless.
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I acknowledged that. Short of running a child prostitution ring, the threshold in every other US franchised sport is non existent. The franchises in those sports have nothing to do with being competitive either.
 
JBone88 said:
They are business savvy because they are a marketing agency. Not legitimate Cup series owners. 100% that 2nd charter gets leased IMO.

LaJoie will likely continue to ride around in 25th. And they are losing Haley (who I like) to a legitimate operation next season. My guess is the 77 will be back as an open car with a revolving door of Smithley, Houff and whatever other ARCA level guys show up with money.
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Spire has a good foundation.

However, with the Hendrick alliance they have... How much are they willing to pay for more speed? Focusing on one car may do well for them as well with Haley going to Kaulig next season.
 
gnomesayin said:
Charters don't function much like professional team sports franchises. The latter are exclusive rights to a geographic area and local market within a cooperative national business. The owners of the franchises collectively own the league.

It's very different. The charters are licenses with rights bargained for between the license holders and the actual owners of the league. F1 has constructor licenses too. They are fine and probably necessary and beneficial, but they have little in common with the structure of professional sports teams.
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We could call them charters rather than franchises.

If you're a team owner, they appear on the balance sheet as assets.
 
aunty dive said:
It's a business model that works everywhere.

In 1967, the Philadelphia Flyers organization paid $2 million for an expansion franchise. The owners of The Seattle Kraken (love that name) recently paid $650 million for the same thing.
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Does it work for the fans? I know, completely irrelevant. Jerry Jones has made an even greater gain on his sports franchise purchase, and now remind me how many playoff games the Cowgirls have won in the last twenty-five years. Subsidized mediocrity. I'm sorry, but if you force me to choose between protecting the interests of Rick Hendrick and Roger Penske (two guys I really admire by the way, as I think you all know), and the ticket buying fan, I'm going to side with the fan pretty darn near EVERY time.
 
Formerjackman said:
Does it work for the fans? I know, completely irrelevant. Jerry Jones has made an even greater gain on his sports franchise purchase, and now remind me how many playoff games the Cowgirls have won in the last twenty-five years. Subsidized mediocrity. I'm sorry, but if you force me to choose between protecting the interests of Rick Hendrick and Roger Penske (two guys I really admire by the way, as I think you all know), and the ticket buying fan, I'm going to side with the fan pretty darn near EVERY time.
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I get entirely where you're coming from, but it sounds like you're expecting charters (and franchises) to do something they weren't designed to do.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Seattle Seahawks were mediocre (at best) for decades after their franchises were created. The Jax Jags are still a joke after ... 20 years?

The paperwork is about investors getting a return on their money, not encouraging competition. There's no connection between the two. You might as well complain that the Darlington surface doesn't provide a smooth ride; that's not what it's for.
 
aunty dive said:
It's a business model that works everywhere.

In 1967, the Philadelphia Flyers organization paid $2 million for an expansion franchise. The owners of The Seattle Kraken (love that name) recently paid $650 million for the same thing.
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Yeah because the price of charters have continued to increase in value I would have to say they are a success. Another success is the number of new teams who are buying or leasing them. Obviously they don't think the charter system is a bad deal. Of course some small numbers of fans don't like them, but they don't like most of anything anyway.
 
Formerjackman said:
Does it work for the fans? I know, completely irrelevant. Jerry Jones has made an even greater gain on his sports franchise purchase, and now remind me how many playoff games the Cowgirls have won in the last twenty-five years. Subsidized mediocrity. I'm sorry, but if you force me to choose between protecting the interests of Rick Hendrick and Roger Penske (two guys I really admire by the way, as I think you all know), and the ticket buying fan, I'm going to side with the fan pretty darn near EVERY time.
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I was minding my own business enjoying a quick lunch in between work and I come across this! I cant accept this level of Cowboys hate on this forum. Even with this rough patch the greatest franchise in all of sports are going through they still have more Super Wins than the local teams around you the Chicago Bears and Indianapolis Colts. oh and thats combined.
 
StandOnIt said:
I thought they were designed to improve value. I haven't heard of one selling for more because the team was doing better than the competition
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The charters have value. They were meant to tighten competition so that teams who are dedicated will will have a guaranteed spot in the lineup each weekend. This is what makes them valuable.

The idea that a team like JTG gets knocked a charter due to finances is pretty much the antithesis to what the charters were meant to do. This is their 12th full time season.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The charters have value. They were meant to tighten competition so that teams who are dedicated will will have a guaranteed spot in the lineup each weekend. This is what makes them valuable.

The idea that a team like JTG gets knocked a charter due to finances is pretty much the antithesis to what the charters were meant to do. This is their 12th full time season.
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JTG was running an open car.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The charters have value. They were meant to tighten competition so that teams who are dedicated will will have a guaranteed spot in the lineup each weekend. This is what makes them valuable.

The idea that a team like JTG gets knocked a charter due to finances is pretty much the antithesis to what the charters were meant to do. This is their 12th full time season.
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How JTG “knocked” a charter?
 
I don't think JTG actually ever really planned on having 2 cars. From what I heard they basically acquired enough sponsorship that sponsorship commitments made 2 cars feasible.

I give them credit for looking at the current charter system and admitting that it doesn't fit their business model. I cant imagine how poor the ROI is on some of these purchases right now.

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