2022 Silly Season

wi_racefan said:
You do realize that the 1 car probably doesn't exist without the sponsorship he was bringing?

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Sure I realize it, BUT, if the sponsorship was doing any of these companies any actual good (which might be questionable where Annett usually ran) then then why not continue it with a driver that can actually run up front, especially Pilot/Flying J? I have no illusions that it WILL happen, just that it COULD. NASCAR sponsorship is a good fit for their demographic, so why not? It also can be said that JRM and HMS are as good at putting together sponsorship and B to B deals as anybody out there, so it's not out of the question that they could put a good deal together for a known driver with a following.
 
Kiante said:
Dude needs an agent. Otherwise, he'll be at RWR next season.
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kkfan91 said:
I saw someone quote tweet that said RWR has talked to Matt and Newman
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I'm actually liking the idea of Matt moving to RWR the more that I think about it. With RWR downsizing and the alliance with SHR with RY engines, along with the new car next year, this could be a solid package to grown with. I never thought I'd say that about RWR, but the pieces would be there. I think it's a situation much like Williams or Alfa Romeo in F1.
 
Formerjackman said:
Sure I realize it, BUT, if the sponsorship was doing any of these companies any actual good (which might be questionable where Annett usually ran) then then why not continue it with a driver that can actually run up front, especially Pilot/Flying J? I have no illusions that it WILL happen, just that it COULD. NASCAR sponsorship is a good fit for their demographic, so why not? It also can be said that JRM and HMS are as good at putting together sponsorship and B to B deals as anybody out there, so it's not out of the question that they could put a good deal together for a known driver with a following.
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The thing most race fans fail to realize is that actually winning races isn't the number one priority for a lot of sponsors. Some want to pay for a family member in racing, some want give customers and employees a race experience, some just don't care as long as they're selling product.

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wi_racefan said:
The thing most race fans fail to realize is that actually winning races isn't the number one priority for a lot of sponsors. Some want to pay for a family member in racing, some want give customers and employees a race experience, some just don't care as long as they're selling product.

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All very true, but given the chance to do all of that with better results and more exposure, and likely no more expense, why not?
 
Formerjackman said:
All very true, but given the chance to do all of that with better results and more exposure, and likely no more expense, why not?
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I have no idea what fly j's objective of sponsorship is, but without "their" guy in the car it's a reality they can probably spend far less with some other team and still accomplish those goals.

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wi_racefan said:
I have no idea what fly j's objective of sponsorship is, but without "their" guy in the car it's a reality they can probably spend far less with some other team and still accomplish those goals.

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Certainly possible. At this point we are both just speculating about something we may well never know the answer to.
 
wi_racefan said:
The thing most race fans fail to realize is that actually winning races isn't the number one priority for a lot of sponsors. Some want to pay for a family member in racing, some want give customers and employees a race experience, some just don't care as long as they're selling product.

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Exactly. Honestly, IMO, backmarker sponsorship is probably a good deal. For a few grand of $$$ you can get your company on an Xfinity car... premium premium parking, sit on the pits, talk to the driver, get a hot pass, get tons of souvenirs of whatever you want, food, and have every need catered to you by a team rep...and your guests get premium parking, a skybox, food/drink, a driver appearance, and some small souvenirs thrown in I'm sure. Best company picnic I could imagine for a small company.
 
wi_racefan said:
The thing most race fans fail to realize is that actually winning races isn't the number one priority for a lot of sponsors. Some want to pay for a family member in racing, some want give customers and employees a race experience, some just don't care as long as they're selling product.

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This is exactly it. It's not always about winning, it's about value and return on investment. When Geico was sponsoring the 13 fullseason for all that time, you think they were paying the same price as somebody like M&Ms does even just part-time for the 18? Absolutely not. And they didn't win a championship either, but they must have felt for several years that they were getting a fair deal in terms of exposure relative to their dollar spent.

And like you alluded to, a lot of sponsors bring guests and employees to races, or utilize partnerships to create B2B opportunities with other companies involved in the same traveling circus. So sometimes winning isn't the focus, odd as that may sound.

Look at Valvoline for example. They sponsor Hendrick and they've built a relationship to the point of being the exclusive oil of the Hendrick dealership network. So they spend enough money to sponsor a few primaries a year, and they happened to get good press for having the 5 car win with their scheme, but even if they didn't get a win it's probably more beneficial for them to be selling all the motor oil used at Mr. H's 93 service departments anyway. HMS wins because they scored some sponsorship, and the dealerships need an oil supplier anyway, so now they both win. That's how Penske operates with a lot of their sponsors too. The relationships can be symbiotic for the business sides of both the team and the sponsor itself.
 
Front Row Motorsports sticking to 2 cars.

Anthony Alfredo sticking to the 38? Ryan Newman to FRM? Riley Herbst for a few much needed yellows? All-Star car with Hailie Deegan, Marco Andretti making a few starts?
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Mr. Mediocre coming from the back of the field twice to place P6, their 9th top 10 on the season so far.

6 more top 10s than Aric Almirola
6 more than Bubba Wallace
2 more than Austin Dillon
1 more than Ross Chastain
Just 3 fewer than Kurt Busch

Cowards out here not putting him in a solid seat.
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How I feel. Deserves a damn spot somewhere at least.
 
aunty dive said:
I was happy to see the question mark. 😇
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Tony Stewart runs the Daytona 500 with his 20 years of trying, 20 years of frustration moment in the 38?

(is he actually allowed to race for another team I forgot?)

Newman runs part time in the 38 on short tracks??

Deegan (Bristol Dirt & Gateway) and Andretti fill out the schedule with maybe DiBennedetto getting a few starts?

Some of this actually makes sense LOL.
 
Cost of original 36 charters ... $0.00 (each)

Tommy Baldwin went home with 2 million dollars. Current value of each charter? Probably a little south of 20 million.

Farce? I think not.
 
aunty dive said:
Cost of original 36 charters ... $0.00 (each)

Tommy Baldwin went home with 2 million dollars. Current value of each charter? Probably a little south of 20 million.

Farce? I think not.
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Last I checked no one gives a crap about practice and qualifying these days because of the charter system.

It’s great if you’re a team owner, but how is it not a farce to the average fan? The only go or go home race is Daytona?

To each their own I guess. We’ll see how these entry lists look like.
 
aunty dive said:
Cost of original 36 charters ... $0.00 (each)
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While there were no initial out-of-pocket costs, those first 36 weren't awarded to anyone who wanted one based on a random draw. Owners and teams had to spend money in the preceding years to have been eligible to receive a charter. Yes, it was money they would have spent on racing anyway, but there were definitely some indirect costs up front.

Still not a farce, though.
 
AuzGrams said:
Last I checked no one gives a crap about practice and qualifying these days because of the charter system.
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Guaranteed starts predated the charter system. If I recall, the top 35 in owner points used to be guaranteed a spot on the grid. JJ might still be limping around on the Past Champion's spot if DW hadn't make a complete joke of it.

Anyway, COVID and economics have killed P&Q. Don't look for them back in the same formats NASCAR used before 2020.
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
Guaranteed starts predated the charter system. If I recall, the top 35 in owner points used to be guaranteed a spot on the grid. JJ might still be limping around on the Past Champion's spot if DW hadn't make a complete joke of it.
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Yeah but you didn’t buy your way into it like you do the charter system and it was a little more transparent when you would buy owner points. Plus they kept cutting the open money.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Weren't entry lists shrinking well before the charters were introduced?
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No 2015 had pretty solid entry lists. 44-45 cars every week. Top 36 on speed & 7 cars based on owner points. Jeb Burton was missing races quite a bit that season if I remember.

Even Stenhouse missed in 2015?? (Edit: 2014)

It was nice to watch guys fight to make the race.

Whatever fits y’all’s narrative though.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
No narrative; we're coming at the subject from different directions. You're interested in field size, I'm focused on the owners' ROI.
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So you’re more interested in a rich guys bank account getting fatter than making the sport better on Fridays and Saturdays?

It’s whatever. They gotta make a nickel out of their millionaire business interests. I just think it’s beyond lame they took out practice and qualifying in the name of good 550 motors.
 
AuzGrams said:
So you’re more interested in a rich guys bank account getting fatter than making the sport better on Fridays and Saturdays?

It’s whatever. They gotta make a nickel out of their millionaire business interests. I just think it’s beyond lame they took out practice and qualifying in the name of good 550 motors.
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Without those laced pockets, none of this would be happening.

Can't race off of goodwill and unicorns, also the owners asked for no practice or qualifying for now.

That much less fuel, tires, personnel, and one less prepped car can make a difference for small teams.
 
Kiante said:
Without those laced pockets, none of this would be happening.

Can't race off of goodwill and unicorns, also the owners asked for no practice or qualifying for now.
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Well yeah I can’t believe you guys think I’m this dumb……….

Just think it’s dumb how much Hendrick and Gibbs outspend over everyone else. It ain’t the 90s or 2000s with Bace Motorsports or MB2 running well.

Not having an hour of practice and qualifying is also lame. All about the owners and not the fans as usual. Which is ironic because ISC spends all these upgrades on nice fan garages and you can’t even put them to use lol.
 
AuzGrams said:
Well yeah I can’t believe you guys think I’m this dumb……….

Just think it’s dumb how much Hendrick and Gibbs outspend over everyone else.
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Never said it to begin with.

Hendrick and Gibbs do spend more, but at the same time look at everything they are supporting. Even in Xfinity, its pay rides all-round to keep their respected programs going.

A lot of people would be out of work right now if they did not receive that type of support.
 
Kiante said:
Never said it to begin with.

Hendrick and Gibbs do spend more, but at the same time look at everything they are supporting. Even in Xfinity, its pay rides all-round to keep their respected programs going.

A lot of people would be out of work right now if they did not receive that type of support.
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I could argue that the amount of money that Gibbs and Toyota spend on ARCA is kinda a detriment to that series. I agree about the top 3.
 
AuzGrams said:
I could argue that the amount of money that Gibbs and Toyota spend on ARCA is kinda a detriment to that series. I agree about the top 3.
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Yeah, I feel as if they could have given that work to Venturini in that case. However, Joe and Coy want to be hand-in-hand with Ty's development.

It's purely a family affair with him.
 
AuzGrams said:
So you’re more interested in a rich guys bank account getting fatter than making the sport better on Fridays and Saturdays?

It’s whatever. They gotta make a nickel out of their millionaire business interests. I just think it’s beyond lame they took out practice and qualifying in the name of good 550 motors.
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You're doing a fine job of putting words in my mouth today. I'm amazed I can still get my foot in there.

I don't think the on-track product on Sunday has suffered any from not having P&Q on Friday and Saturday (other than the #18). If you want something to do on Saturday, go to the Xfinity races or a local track.

I must have missed the connection between the 550s and dropping P&Q. I thought COVID was the excuse.

I don't think having longer entry lists makes anything 'better'. Those last half-dozen starters were chicanes for years. Other than Furniture Row, what teams since 2010 have pulled themselves up by their jack stands to become regularly competitive for a top 15 spot? If you want to be competitive, you've needed a rich guy's bank account for a lot longer time than the charters have been in effect. The Alan Kulwicki model has been gone for a couple of decades.
 
I can see both sides. Of course the owners want(and yeah deserve) some money when they want out on a return and this helps.

But at the same time, it be nice to see some qualifying that actually matters. I love seeing who makes it and who doesn’t. It was fun honestly.
 
Blaze said:
But at the same time, it be nice to see some qualifying that actually matters. I love seeing who makes it and who doesn’t. It was fun honestly.
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To expand on what your point here about qualifying mattering...I've seen on here angst about the Busch Clash being moved to LA and how the race doesnt matter anymore, well yeah there's not even any qualifying. Why would you have a qualifying race that rewards last year's pole winners when there really isnt any pole winners the last 2 years? Like you I can see both sides of the argument, I prefer the practice and qualifying but I dont think its going back to that any time soon.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You're doing a fine job of putting words in my mouth today. I'm amazed I can still get my foot in there.

I don't think the on-track product on Sunday has suffered any from not having P&Q on Friday and Saturday (other than the #18). If you want something to do on Saturday, go to the Xfinity races or a local track.

I must have missed the connection between the 550s and dropping P&Q. I thought COVID was the excuse.

I don't think having longer entry lists makes anything 'better'. Those last half-dozen starters were chicanes for years. Other than Furniture Row, what teams since 2010 have pulled themselves up by their jack stands to become regularly competitive for a top 15 spot? If you want to be competitive, you've needed a rich guy's bank account for a lot longer time than the charters have been in effect. The Alan Kulwicki model has been gone for a couple of decades.
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Fair points. Rick Ware has been trying to make strides I suppose. Joe and JHN look pretty good right now, Front Row looks decent enough these days.

Just think there was people that cared about practice and qualifying. I understand the COVID excuses but eventually the excuses run out.
 
Snappy D said:
To expand on what your point here about qualifying mattering...I've seen on here angst about the Busch Clash being moved to LA and how the race doesnt matter anymore, well yeah there's not even any qualifying. Why would you have a qualifying race that rewards last year's pole winners when there really isnt any pole winners the last 2 years? Like you I can see both sides of the argument, I prefer the practice and qualifying but I dont think its going back to that any time soon.
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Why take a vacation to Daytona Beach if you can’t have a good week or 2 to have fun during Speedweeks?

LA has Fontana not too far away and Irwindale close by.

I hope they move the All-Star race to LA if they keep this venue.
 
Snappy D said:
To expand on what your point here about qualifying mattering...I've seen on here angst about the Busch Clash being moved to LA and how the race doesnt matter anymore, well yeah there's not even any qualifying. Why would you have a qualifying race that rewards last year's pole winners when there really isnt any pole winners the last 2 years? Like you I can see both sides of the argument, I prefer the practice and qualifying but I dont think its going back to that any time soon.
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That as well. Like it was nice to see a race where all the pole sitters in it, it was fun. Now the race from my understanding will be open to everyone who wants to show up and race. Heat races are happening but like, you don’t have to do anything special to even have a chance to be in it.
 
I get that we don’t need 3-4 hours of practice every week these days but an hour long practice + qualifying is still needed at minimum.

I wish they would move that All-Star race to the Coliseum and keep the Clash as a Superspeedway race. Maybe if they’d stop wadding up the field and race like gentlemen lol.
 

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