'21 Generation 7 Car news

StandOnIt said:
Yeah that and I wonder how many other drivers didn't know either.
Another part of that is that it looks like when they flat a tire or two they are down on those rub blocks and they aren't going anywhere.
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Yep, Bowman had all 4 tires go down and he was stuck. What was the reasoning for taking the inner liners out?
 
Nitro Dude said:
Yep, Bowman had all 4 tires go down and he was stuck. What was the reasoning for taking the inner liners out?
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The diameter of the wheels increased. For the overall wheel-tire assembly to stay the same total diameter, the tires themselves had to get narrower. Now there isn't enough room inside the tire for an inner liner.

Some folks wanted to see larger wheels. Losing the inner liner was one of the costs.
 
StandOnIt said:
Penske says he told somebody at Nascar about it before they did it. :idunno: Could be the Penski group knew that wheel would go on a lot easier and faster because of experiences with the SuperCars. Kinda handy that Brad has a full tilt machine shop handy.
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Thing is, he never got a response and "did it anyway". They might get saved by the fact they didnt use them but for them to even bring them to the track is mind boggling.
 
Spotter22 said:
Thing is, he never got a response and "did it anyway". They might get saved by the fact they didnt use them but for them to even bring them to the track is mind boggling.
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Let me correct myself, the teams themselves dont bring them anymore NASCAR contracts out a carrier so the wheels were on that truck and most likely got mounted. That might put it back to severe status.
 
Spotter22 said:
Thing is, he never got a response and "did it anyway". They might get saved by the fact they didnt use them but for them to even bring them to the track is mind boggling.
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If they didn't even use them I'm not sure there's even a case for a penalty. Being in possession of an illegal part isn't really cheating. Now if the wheels were sitting in pit wall ready to be put on the car I guess you intended to use them, just like presenting an illegal car for pre race tech.

If something happens we should find out soon.

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wi_racefan said:
If they didn't even use them I'm not sure there's even a case for a penalty. Being in possession of an illegal part isn't really cheating. Now if the wheels were sitting in pit wall ready to be put on the car I guess you intended to use them, just like presenting an illegal car for pre race tech.

If something happens we should find out soon.

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Having a modified wheel at the track without approval takes balls and teams have been penalized for having illegal things at the track that never raced.
 
Spotter22 said:
Having a modified wheel at the track without approval takes balls and teams have been penalized for having illegal things at the track that never raced.
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I am surprised they don't have a scanner for the wheels when they mount the tires just to verify the provided rims are accurate.
 
Team Penske said:
I am surprised they don't have a scanner for the wheels when they mount the tires just to verify the provided rims are accurate.
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They know what the depth and circumference of the wheel mount is and can check if they see something suspicious. I think in this case word spread around the garage they had modified them.
 
As of now we know of 3 separate instances where wheel to drive pin alignment caused an issue under race conditions.
2 of those issues were catastrophic failures.
It's going to be hard for NASCAR to place blame and penalize Penske and RFK if the teams have proof of communicating their concerns and their plans of remedy.
 
StandOnIt said:
more from the 7/16" open end wrench catagory
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Learning as they go, its to be expected.

I know some feel as if the book should have been thrown at Penske and RFK, however if its to improve the safety and security of the wheel, it shouldn't be an issue. Penske has years of expereince in the sports car world and Australian Supercars as @StandOnIt mentioned, so he and his brain trust have an idea of whats needed. Also, it helps Brad has a state-of-the-art machining company as well to test said new found tolerances.

If they didn't ask NASCAR beforehand, the story and result would be different.
 
Kiante said:
Learning as they go, its to be expected.

I know some feel as if the book should have been thrown at Penske and RFK, however if its to improve the safety and security of the wheel, it shouldn't be an issue. Penske has years of expereince in the sports car world and Australian Supercars as @StandOnIt mentioned, so he and his brain trust have an idea of whats needed. Also, it helps Brad has a state-of-the-art machining company as well to test said new found tolerances.

If they didn't ask NASCAR beforehand, the story and result would be different.
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It shows to me the intelligence behind the series. Nascar is being hands on and if there is a problem with a part or piece, they are getting it taken care of as soon as it comes up. Pretty stupid to penalize one of the teams for pointing out what could become a serious safety issue.
 
I dont understand how NASCAR met with the next Gen suppliers and teams and made adjustments to increase the upper tolerance on pin and pilot bores for Fontana yet 2 teams got severe penalties for lost wheels. Did the wheel cause the problem or not? Did they teams just fail to tighten the lug? Also the wheels are supposed to have a safety catch that wont allow the nut to come all the way off. If they are making changes I think the 31 and 50 should get a pass.
 
The safety catch doesn’t engage until the nut seats on the wheel.

You can change 4 in less time than than it takes to fully fuel the car. Maybe take an extra nanosecond to be sure the nuts are tight. 6 races from now, muscle memory will kick in.

JMO, of course.
 
I think Bozzi is a bit confused. Increasing the tolerance makes the hole larger depending on how it is written. A tolerance is a dimensioning varable. Nominal size is where they start from. Tolerances on a hole or a pin can increase, decrease, OR do both depending on how it is written. Nobody is showing the revised print of the hole and pin size dimensions so far, but common sense says they increased the hole size. It's the easiest to do.

 
aunty dive said:
The safety catch doesn’t engage until the nut seats on the wheel.

You can change 4 in less time than than it takes to fully fuel the car. Maybe take an extra nanosecond to be sure the nuts are tight. 6 races from now, muscle memory will kick in.

JMO, of course.
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Ok that makes sense now. I thought if the nut got past a certain spot on the threads it would latch. Thanks bud
 
Spotter22 said:
Ok that makes sense now. I thought if the nut got past a certain spot on the threads it would latch. Thanks bud
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You are correct.
The nut retention pin engages about 3/8 to 1/2 inch before the nut is tight.
There is still much confusion about the new set-up. Even Bozi incorrectly stated "pins that pop up to catch the wheel". They do not catch the wheel. If the nut has not been tightened past the detent it can back off and the wheel will eventually be lost, as happened this past Sunday.
 
Old 97 said:
You are correct.
The nut retention pin engages about 3/8 to 1/2 inch before the nut is tight.
There is still much confusion about the new set-up. Even Bozi incorrectly stated "pins that pop up to catch the wheel". They do not catch the wheel. If the nut has not been tightened past the detent it can back off and the wheel will eventually be lost, as happened this past Sunday.
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Thanks, I didnt get to see any of these up close and personal. Far cry from what we use to use.
 
Old 97 said:
You are correct.
The nut retention pin engages about 3/8 to 1/2 inch before the nut is tight.
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Makes much more sense than my explanation.

Question: Are the wheels cast / drilled for one valve stem or two? Thinking about use of inner liners.
 
aunty dive said:
Makes much more sense than my explanation.

Question: Are the wheels cast / drilled for one valve stem or two? Thinking about use of inner liners.
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No inner liners any more.

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'21 Generation 7 Car news

I couldn't believe that Chase didn't know the new tires don't have innerliners. Yeah that and I wonder how many other drivers didn't know either. Another part of that is that it looks like when they flat a tire or two they are down on those rub blocks and they aren't going anywhere.
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Charlie Spencer said:
No inner liners any more.

racing-forums.com

'21 Generation 7 Car news

I couldn't believe that Chase didn't know the new tires don't have innerliners. Yeah that and I wonder how many other drivers didn't know either. Another part of that is that it looks like when they flat a tire or two they are down on those rub blocks and they aren't going anywhere.
racing-forums.com racing-forums.com
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So it seems we've traded composite fenders that are less likely to cut tires for no inner liners and cars stuck on those flat bottoms. Maybe some "beefing up" of the tires to come?
 
Hawaii808 said:
So it seems we've traded composite fenders that are less likely to cut tires for no inner liners and cars stuck on those flat bottoms. Maybe some "beefing up" of the tires to come?
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They have a problem IMO. They put rub blocks on the under trays to keep them from running too low, but they stop the cars from moving when they have a couple maybe one flat tire.. I think the little skinny tires suck anyway, go with a couple of inches less on the wheels and make it up with a thicker tire. I believe the car this year is around 32-34 hundred pounds, no lightweights like IMSA and the Supercars that run those tires.
 
aunty dive said:
Makes much more sense than my explanation.

Question: Are the wheels cast / drilled for one valve stem or two? Thinking about use of inner liners.
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Currently the wheels are drilled/machined with a single hole.
The technology for a viable inner liner doesn't exist at this time.
 
Corey was saying on stacking pennies that 2 car teams are only allowed to bring 1 backup to the track. Anyone else here that?

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