'21 Generation 7 Car news

Charlie Spencer said:
That would imply it really isn't all Goodyear's fault. I have been assured repeatedly by the pneumatic engineers here at RF that 100% of the problem is with the tires. ;)
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Can't leave out the track sucks screamers either lol and honorable mention to the players that think everything is Nascar's fault.

Anybody remember at the beginning of the season if any of them had a flat? Almost every time it was clear the track and call the wrecker? Beats me what they did to fix that but they DID fix it.
Childers and some of the other crew chiefs decided to lower their cars for more down force using the tires to do it and they got bit doing it and created the mess we got to watch. Now Childress is trying to blame Nascar for the problem he and the others created. They will get it fixed some how.
 
Rodney Childers' explanation about how the teams are using low tire pressures to create maximum downforce was a huge eye-opener to me.

Nascar could respond by publishing tire pressures at pit exit, either in real time or at the conclusion of the race. This would add a ton of transparency to the tire debate. And they could make a minimum pressure rule if so desired.

The technology exists right now. In MotoGP, race direction monitors tire pressures every lap at the start/finish line.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Rodney Childers' explanation about how the teams are using low tire pressures to create maximum downforce was a huge eye-opener to me.

Nascar could respond by publishing tire pressures at pit exit, either in real time or at the conclusion of the race. This would add a ton of transparency to the tire debate. And they could make a minimum pressure rule if so desired.

The technology exists right now. In MotoGP, race direction monitors tire pressures every lap at the start/finish line.
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Sounds like a pretty simple solution to keep crew chiefs in line and cars out of the wall.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Rodney Childers' explanation about how the teams are using low tire pressures to create maximum downforce was a huge eye-opener to me.

Nascar could respond by publishing tire pressures at pit exit, either in real time or at the conclusion of the race. This would add a ton of transparency to the tire debate. And they could make a minimum pressure rule if so desired.

The technology exists right now. In MotoGP, race direction monitors tire pressures every lap at the start/finish line.
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I thought the whole point of the new car was to lower costs........
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Sensors are cheaper than a torn-up car.
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Sensor may not be as cheap as you think. Would really have to be an issued part to ensure that teams didn't mess with them. So are you now going to have an official down in each pit installing psi sensors on 10 sets of tires for every team? Then I guess have someone monitoring them after they were installed until they went on the car? Then you have to have the monitoring system with proprietary software so teams can't mess with that as well.

If teams can figure out a way to run a lower pressure and have the data show something else they will do it without a doubt. You'll spend more money than you can imagine on software and policing teams on this.
 
wi_racefan said:
Sensor may not be as cheap as you think. Would really have to be an issued part to ensure that teams didn't mess with them. So are you now going to have an official down in each pit installing psi sensors on 10 sets of tires for every team? Then I guess have someone monitoring them after they were installed until they went on the car? Then you have to have the monitoring system with proprietary software so teams can't mess with that as well.

If teams can figure out a way to run a lower pressure and have the data show something else they will do it without a doubt. You'll spend more money than you can imagine on software and policing teams on this.
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They haven't had a problem with engine monitoring and that is a lot more complicated then the things you are throwing against the wall hoping for stickage.
 
IMSA has TPMS on every single car.

It's only a matter of time until it comes around to NASCAR. Also, yes the intital cost of the Gen 7 is lofty, however not having to purchase or build as many chassis will make this vendor system pay off as time goes on. Imagine only having to buy 7 or 8 chassis instead of building twice as many to deal with the different track configurations.
 
Is there a currently available car or truck that doesn’t have TPMS?

The collective engineering mind just hit a small asteroid with a dart at 14,000 plus MPH 7 million miles from home.

The cost / complexity of monitoring race car tire pressures AND temperatures in NASCAR pales in comparison to the cost / logistics problems attributable to crash damage.

To say nothing of the derision being heaped on the sanctioning body for the damage being done to the race product itself.

Time to quit effing around IMO.
 
StandOnIt said:
They haven't had a problem with engine monitoring and that is a lot more complicated then the things you are throwing against the wall hoping for stickage.
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You're also talking about 40 engines that have been inspected and sealed, not 1,600 tires per race weekend
 
aunty dive said:
Is there a currently available car or truck that doesn’t have TPMS?
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IMO that's comparing apples to oranges.

In a passenger vehicle you run TPMS to prevent having a low tire and you have nothing to gain by running lower pressures like race cars do.
 
wi_racefan said:
IMO that's comparing apples to oranges.

In a passenger vehicle you run TPMS to prevent having a low tire and you have nothing to gain by running lower pressures like race cars do.
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My point is that TPMS is as common as dirt.

I ignored your second paragraph in its entirety.
 
Check non-adjustable tire pressure sensor reading against hand-held gauge used when tires are mounted by Goodyear.

IMSA can do it. NASCAR owns IMSA.
 
wi_racefan said:
So you're going to leave teams alone with them? Yeah I bet no one would mess with them in the slightest...........
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They're left alone with the fuel. It's a lot easier to get to than a sensor inside a tire, and a lot harder to check. Put the word out that messing with the tire sensors is the Death Penalty, enforce it once or twice, and there won't be any more problems. Haven't seen any tape on the fenders lately, have you?

Plenty of other series don't seem to have issues enforcing it. IMSA fields more than 40 cars a few times a year for the endurance events, and they go through a lot more tires.
 
aunty dive said:
Check non-adjustable tire pressure sensor reading against hand-held gauge used when tires are mounted by Goodyear.

IMSA can do it. NASCAR owns IMSA.
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Couldn't agree more with you. This is stock car racing. Consumer cars have TPS. NASCAR should too....and while we are at it, how about fuel gauges? There was babble about how the McLaren ECU would be manipulated....I don't think there is any evidence that it has. The consequences for screwing with something are pretty harsh these days.
 
I thought I read somewhere (months ago, so details are fuzzy) that NASCAR can't (or won't) run a TPMS? I don't remember the reasoning, but I thought NASCAR had been asked about TPMS being considered with the new car/wheel, and they completely dismissed it.
 
2 Sweet said:
I thought I read somewhere (months ago, so details are fuzzy) that NASCAR can't (or won't) run a TPMS? I don't remember the reasoning, but I thought NASCAR had been asked about TPMS being considered with the new car/wheel, and they completely dismissed it.
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You'd think Goodyear would want some live, in-race numbers to shut some of these guys up. Then again, maybe hard numbers are the LAST thing they want.

Take your pick.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You'd think Goodyear would want some live, in-race numbers to shut some of these guys up. Then again, maybe hard numbers are the LAST thing they want.

Take your pick.
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I would have to think goodyear is getting all that info at tests and with the wheel force cars
 
StandOnIt said:
They probably are getting plenty of info, but the data they get is from proper inflation
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I might be wrong but you would think they'd run low as well for testing to see how the tire responds. I know all testing I've done we put equipment thru whatever wrong we could think someone might do to it.
 
wi_racefan said:
I know all testing I've done we put equipment thru whatever wrong we could think someone might do to it.
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I do the same thing when I have users try to break software systems. Despite our best efforts to think of all possible screw-ups, users consistently manage to surprise us. ;) 'Real world' use often reveals weaknesses even the most rigorous testing won't find in trial environments.

I worked in a lawn mower plant once. It never occurred to us two knuckleheads would remove the handle, weld a couple of horizontal bars on each side on the top, and pick the whole unit up as a two-man hedge trimmer. :eek:
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I do the same thing when I have users try to break software systems. Despite our best efforts to think of all possible screw-ups, users consistently manage to surprise us. ;) 'Real world' use often reveals weaknesses even the most rigorous testing won't find in trial environments.
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Yeah I've had a lot of conversations after a failure of 'well we never thought anyone would even try to do something like that"
 
The whole tire thing is stupid. Goodyear builds a fine tire. They set a conservative minimum. Someone goes below, gets grip, and the tire survives. Somebody else does the same thing, and it doesn't. Instead of owning the low pressure, the team blames Goodyear. Nobody ever thanks Goodyear after a race. Everybody blames Goodyear regardless of whether or not the failure was within their control. Nobody wants a tire war. ....and the beat goes on.
 
2 Sweet said:
I thought I read somewhere (months ago, so details are fuzzy) that NASCAR can't (or won't) run a TPMS? I don't remember the reasoning, but I thought NASCAR had been asked about TPMS being considered with the new car/wheel, and they completely dismissed it.
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Likely because they can't figure out what they want to be. Let's make everything similar to road car versions except the ****** four patches in contact with the road.
 
FLRacingFan said:
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I don't see how Next Gen Version 2.0 for next year would be a big financial setback for the teams. Certainly the bigger teams turned over all or most of their chassis every year when racing Gen 6 and prior. Some of the smaller teams with less funding ran year-old chassis, so maybe they were hoping for a stagnant design to keep that strategy going.

The financial savings Next Gen was supposed to produce came from two main sources... (a) a fleet of just seven chassis per car number, versus twice or triple that amount previously, and (b) each chassis costs a fraction as much because of its standard design and standard components. I don't recall any discussion of savings from item (c) each chassis will race for multiple years.

I believe there is solid evidence that the new car has performed pretty much as expected in the cost savings area. That's one big reason why charter values have doubled in the last year.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I don't see how Next Gen Version 2.0 for next year would be a big financial setback for the teams. Certainly the bigger teams turned over all or most of their chassis every year when racing Gen 6 and prior. Some of the smaller teams with less funding ran year-old chassis, so maybe they were hoping for a stagnant design to keep that strategy going.

The financial savings Next Gen was supposed to produce came from two main sources... (a) a fleet of just seven chassis per car number, versus twice or triple that amount previously, and (b) each chassis costs a fraction as much because of its standard design and standard components. I don't recall any discussion of savings from item (c) each chassis will race for multiple years.

I believe there is solid evidence that the new car has performed pretty much as expected in the cost savings area. That's one big reason why charter values have doubled in the last year.
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Somewhere in another tweet up towards the top of this page Marks said his parts expenses have overshot the budget so far. Whether that’s due to general supply chain issues or what, I’m not sure. Could definitely be a variety of factors there.

I think the increase in charter market asking values is at least in part because of expectations for the upcoming TV deal is supposed to be both more valuable in total and shared more with the teams compared to the current distribution - a larger slice of a larger pie. The guaranteed annual revenues associated with each charter should increase quite a bit, so long as things go according to plan.
 
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