'21 Generation 7 Car news

Consider too that for GM and a little lesser extent Ford, V8's ARE their performance engine, the powerplant they seemingly would want to showcase.
 
I’m inclined to look into the past ... 575 HP in 1977 to be precise.

Perhaps a governor is required.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Wonder if Nascar acquired a supercar and used it as a base? Does the Supercar series use IRS? I still say NOW is the time to dump the v-8 too. Just rip off the bandaid and move forward. Use OEM engines. Done.
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Should they use V6s or Turbo V4s?
 
SpeedPagan said:
Should they use V6s or Turbo V4s?
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Anything that makes around 550 HP. That's the plan as I see it. Say for instance Honda. I'm not sure they even have a V-8 but they have 6's that can make that much. They race all kinds of different engine configurations in the same class in the IMSA series. It isn't rocket science.
 
Why is 550 hp the goal, and what does that have to do with attracting new manufacturers?

What does it matter if NASCAR uses a V8, I4, or whatever amount of cylinders you wanna throw out there? Is Honda's lack of a production V8 the barrier that's preventing them from joining NASCAR?
 
2 Sweet said:
Why is 550 hp the goal, and what does that have to do with attracting new manufacturers?

What does it matter if NASCAR uses a V8, I4, or whatever amount of cylinders you wanna throw out there? Is Honda's lack of a production V8 the barrier that's preventing them from joining NASCAR?
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I'm repeating what has been said by Nascar. 550 HP is a level that most manufacturers have on hand. Making a specific V8 motor to Nascar's specification's isn't cheap. I used Honda as an example. For example what if Honda does have a V8? If it was a turbocharged dual overhead cam engine, it wouldn't be allowed to be raced under the rules they have today.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm repeating what has been said by Nascar. 550 HP is a level that most manufacturers have on hand. Making a specific V8 motor to Nascar's specification's isn't cheap. I used Honda as an example. For example what if Honda does have a V8? If it was a turbocharged dual overhead cam engine, it wouldn't be allowed to be raced under the rules they have today.
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No reason they couldn't use a "Turbo'd" engine and remove the turbo, I have no problem with DOHC. Just dyno the engines and get them within 10 or so HP. A DOHC would be fine on 1.5 & up tracks but lack low end for the short tracks and road courses. I thought one of the main reasons for this car was to attract more manufacturers and make the cars more relevant?
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm repeating what has been said by Nascar. 550 HP is a level that most manufacturers have on hand. Making a specific V8 motor to Nascar's specification's isn't cheap. I used Honda as an example. For example what if Honda does have a V8? If it was a turbocharged dual overhead cam engine, it wouldn't be allowed to be raced under the rules they have today.
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I guess I'm just trying to understand the goal. If NASCAR is supposedly desperate to add more manufacturers, are they planning on opening up the restrictions on the engine? Would they allow each manufacturer to race their own specific factory-based mill, and then regulate horsepower accordingly? If Chevrolet wants to race a supercharged pushrod V8, Ford a twin turbo V6, Toyota a DOHC naturally aspirated V6, Honda a turbo I4, etc.

That seems very unrealistic, and I don't think it will accomplish anything. I really don't think NASCAR's current engine structure is what's keeping any potential manufacturer from joining. Maybe Honda, since they don't make a V8. But I doubt that's the only hangup.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Wonder if Nascar acquired a supercar and used it as a base? Does the Supercar series use IRS? I still say NOW is the time to dump the v-8 too. Just rip off the bandaid and move forward. Use OEM engines. Done.
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Why can't we have an OEM V8?
 
I don't know how they would get around an OEM that didn't make aV8. Hopefully they will fill us in about where they are going, but it isn't until 2022 at the earliest for the engine change I believe. Going to be some push back if they try to get away from V8's. I'm kinda on that side myself. I like the V8 sound. I'm not a fan of the supercar type of transmission, but it's better than paddle shifters in my book.
 
2 Sweet said:
I guess I'm just trying to understand the goal. If NASCAR is supposedly desperate to add more manufacturers, are they planning on opening up the restrictions on the engine? Would they allow each manufacturer to race their own specific factory-based mill, and then regulate horsepower accordingly? If Chevrolet wants to race a supercharged pushrod V8, Ford a twin turbo V6, Toyota a DOHC naturally aspirated V6, Honda a turbo I4, etc.

That seems very unrealistic, and I don't think it will accomplish anything. I really don't think NASCAR's current engine structure is what's keeping any potential manufacturer from joining. Maybe Honda, since they don't make a V8. But I doubt that's the only hangup.
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Nope. I'm saying V-6 or 4-cyl. Probably should just go to 4-cyl with hybrid tech. AWD.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't know how they would get around an OEM that didn't make aV8. Hopefully they will fill us in about where they are going, but it isn't until 2022 at the earliest for the engine change I believe. Going to be some push back if they try to get away from V8's. I'm kinda on that side myself. I like the V8 sound. I'm not a fan of the supercar type of transmission, but it's better than paddle shifters in my book.
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Manual transmissions are becoming harder and harder to find.

I prefer to drive manual, this is rare for millenials, and honestly I think NASCAR is going to kind of start falling into the line of "road relevant" product. I like the sequential transmissions, but something about the manual transmission is just hard to move on from. Its something we are all used to, but outside of the road courses and Pocono, is it still worth placing something that's not seen as relevant anymore?

The 2020 GT500 doesn't have a manual option, so I could see NASCAR going in that direction entirely over time. The next gen car has potential to be great, but its going to piss off many as well with the possible changes.
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm repeating what has been said by Nascar. 550 HP is a level that most manufacturers have on hand. Making a specific V8 motor to Nascar's specification's isn't cheap. I used Honda as an example. For example what if Honda does have a V8? If it was a turbocharged dual overhead cam engine, it wouldn't be allowed to be raced under the rules they have today.
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They have the rights to the old chevy 283 engine minus the heads which they made their own having 3 valves per. That block can be punched to 343 and easily get 550 HP. That's what I used in 72.
 
Team Penske said:
Sorry, I was replying to the subject of Honda and V8 engine.
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I was just curious about your 283 Chevy comments. I was trying to figure out what you meant by somebody having rights to it, and the comment about getting 343 cubic inches out of one.
 
Formerjackman said:
I was just curious about your 283 Chevy comments. I was trying to figure out what you meant by somebody having rights to it, and the comment about getting 343 cubic inches out of one.
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Honda did buy the rights to the 283 engine and made there own heads for it.
My mistake on the 343 cubes, that was from a 327 punched.
 
Team Penske said:
Honda did buy the rights to the 283 engine and made there own heads for it.
My mistake on the 343 cubes, that was from a 327 punched.
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I've never heard that one. What on earth would/did they do with it? That motor weighed more than the cars they made back then. The 327 answer makes sense to me now. Only the very early 283 blocks could by safely bored to 4.00 inches and only the later blocks had enough crankcase clearance to swing even a 3.25" stroke crank, and assuming you could combine the two, that still would only make 327 cubic inches. Would be interested to know how you 343 out of a 327. Offset ground crank? My uncle's semi-late model in the mid 80's spent most of its time with a 331 (327 +.030) for an engine. A little under powered, but it drove well. Finished 6th in points in 22-25 cars fields two years in a row.
 
Formerjackman said:
I've never heard that one. What on earth would/did they do with it? That motor weighed more than the cars they made back then. The 327 answer makes sense to me now. Only the very early 283 blocks could by safely bored to 4.00 inches and only the later blocks had enough crankcase clearance to swing even a 3.25" stroke crank, and assuming you could combine the two, that still would only make 327 cubic inches. Would be interested to know how you 343 out of a 327. Offset ground crank? My uncle's semi-late model in the mid 80's spent most of its time with a 331 (327 +.030) for an engine. A little under powered, but it drove well. Finished 6th in points in 22-25 cars fields two years in a row.
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The division I raced in back in 70-72, Ontario Canada had limits for 3 manufactures. Chevy was 343 and you get get there by boring out a 327 OR destroke a 350. Ford was 360 and Chrysler was 383, both being stock engines. 90% of all cars were GM. Frames were 57 chevy style with any body/engine combination you wanted. A top 10 car every year was a chap who raced for the pure pleasure and he ran a chevy 261 engine . This guy could set up his car and make Larson look like an amateur riding the top rail.
 
I didn't think you could bore a 327/350 block far enough to get 343 CID with a 327 crank. The cylinder walls had to be paper thin.
 
Formerjackman said:
I didn't think you could bore a 327/350 block far enough to get 343 CID with a 327 crank. The cylinder walls had to be paper thin.
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This isn't cup racing for 3 hrs, heats and a 50 lap main. Have you ever watched Pintie's series in Canada? If so a few years ago they still raced the Barrie Speedway which was my home track.
 
That's fine, it just would have made my nervous. I don't even like a .060 overbore in any performance application, but I'm very conservative. I'll always trade a little power for reliability.
 
No Honda does not have a V8. Our Acura NSX supercar is a 557 HP hybrid V6. The Honda Civic Type R is a 330 HP 4 cylinder.

Racing wise the Indycars turn out 700 on road courses and the Red Bull Honda F1 car is 1025 HP I believe
 
Team Penske said:
Great video. I was surprised to learn the amount of paint was a concern for car weight. I guess Tony won't be driving. :D
Don't forget to post the next video.
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Glad someone else enjoyed it. Was mainly pointed toward the "THEY AIN"T STOCK ENOUGH" guys out there. We have come too far thru evolution of power plants and other engineering to go back to 1960. Even a V-6 will provide enough power to run 190mph if they provide some decent tires to stick the car. I love that they are trying to accentuate the mechanical grip and making the bodies symmetrical. I want to see a car at Martinsville lift & compress the front suspension. Sick of bump-stop/go-kart racing.
 
well good luck and fight the good fight. I believe that is an Australian SuperCar, maybe the Next Gen will have more things in common with them. BTW lift and squat and the nightmare of enforced ride heights is the same thing they are accomplishing with bump stops.
 
Who knows what the engine choices if any they will have a year and a half from now if that soon. I would guess they would have to go to some form of the BoP to do so. It's fairly complicated and can change often depending on who is sandbagging and who is yelling the loudest about it. But bottom line it allows for different engine configurations.


Understanding IMSA's Balance of Performance and Why It's Necessary

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/mor...balance-of-performance-and-why-its-necessary/
 
I believe BoP is derived from some form of adult T-Ball.

Naturally, I could be wrong.
 
sloggie said:
The V-8 is gone. NASCAR is desperate to attract new manufacturers and they can't do that if the engines are not relevant to modern cars.

Also more highly speculative and widely optimistic article here.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/a30351017/next-gen-what-we-know-about-nascars-new-car/
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Its not even confirmed, the article mentioned it was brought up as a topic. I do not see Honda joining, especially with the direction of IndyCar and IMSA programs are going at this moment.

Its purely speculation at this moment, until Jim France and company come forward next season giving the breakdown of the car. Honda did not even have a V-8 in production when they made the V8s for IndyCar before the change to the DW-12 at the V6 configuration.

I'm still curious about the possible hybrid system options.
 
sloggie said:
The V-8 is gone. NASCAR is desperate to attract new manufacturers and they can't do that if the engines are not relevant to modern cars.

Also more highly speculative and widely optimistic article here.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/a30351017/next-gen-what-we-know-about-nascars-new-car/
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Breaking news, film at 11. :p Been watching too much HBO. The public will probably find out more about engine development some time next year at the earliest, until then rumors and wild guesses abound. Probably be a good idea to pay attention to Nascar officials quotes about the engine instead of desperate journalists trying to get clicks.
 
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