'21 Generation 7 Car news

TRD on hybrids in motorsport. Push-to-pass is really going to be a thing, it sounds like.

TRD President and general manager David Wilson, meanwhile, believes that a common system with NASCAR, which also plans to introduce hybrid technology in 2022, would “make a lot of sense.”

“We’ve been openly talking about that wearing the NASCAR hat,” Wilson told Sportscar365.

“I’ve been talking to Jay Frye on the IndyCar side. Everywhere that professional racing is, there’s an ongoing conversation about relative technologies and hybrid.

“Whether it’s NASCAR, IMSA, IndyCar, we’re all struggling with the same challenges: how to implement it in a manner that is affordable, that is safe, and yet is creditable.”

While among the contingent of manufacturers evaluating the new platform, Wilson said he’s not in favor of a so-called ‘token’ hybrid system to be implemented just for marketing purposes.

“Our position, whether it’s NASCAR or looking over the horizon at a prototype, is we want a system that is more than just piddling around the garage or pit lane,” he said.

“We want a push-to-pass, creditable system.

“If there could be some shared technologies, if not a shared system, that will only help bring the cost down because there will be some economies of scale there and some learnings from the series wherein we could help each other, and that’s a good thing.”
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https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/manufacturers-pushing-hard-for-shared-hybrid-tech/
 
Like a "Turbo" setting on a blender. :)

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#racingappliance
 
We’re evolving ... that never stops.

NASHCASH is already behind the curve on this stuff.
 
I don't have a problem with a hybrid system, but why is it needed in Nascar or racing in general? Looks to me like the OEM's want it. It might be down to what kind of hybrid system. Sounds that way.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
In theory, I have no problem with a hybrid system. What I don't get is why that would have to include PtP. What's the connection? It sure as heck isn't production technology.
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I think it's because once you go hybrid, it's really hard to stop the teams from using it like PtP. Like, you have a battery that's constantly building up and storing energy, how are you gonna control deployment of it? Do you leave it up to the teams to spend piles of $$ building engine mapping and control software, or do you simplify things for everyone by using standard parts and a button. The former is how F1 went and it's a big drag on cost and parity while also taking things out of the drivers hands. PtP at least leaves things up to the driver and not the software engineer.
 
Reading between the lines, it looks like some of the major players want a token Hybrid system, mostly in name only, and Toyota boy wants to make it all about Hybrids. I could be wrong but it sure looks that way. I'm totally against making it all about Hybrids and prefer something that is more like an add on. Push to pass doesn't bother me as much as who has the best Hybrid.
 
I know I'm probably kicking a dead horse here, but IMO things like hybrids and PTP are things that will drive away the current long standing fan base. Which I thought directly contradicts what nascar said they wouldn't not do - alienate the current fan base trying to attract new fans

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wi_racefan said:
I know I'm probably kicking a dead horse here, but IMO things like hybrids and PTP are things that will drive away the current long standing fan base. Which I thought directly contradicts what nascar said they wouldn't not do - alienate the current fan base trying to attract new fans

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yeah that one works for just about any change. :D
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah that one works for just about any change. :D
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No I think many changes longtime fans would accept - bodies, chassis...

Changing things to what have become the standard and normal for years becomes acceptable to most fans. Example: changing from carburetors to EFI. But how many cars going down the road right now are electric or hybrid?

Completely changing the power plant to something that is at least partial electric power and adding some magic PTP button? I think that's a hard pill to swallow for most long term fans.

In reality I think the sanctioning body may be at a huge crossroads when making that decision. Knowing you will lose a significant amount of the existing fan base in order to keep the manufacturer's happy and try to attract more fans. What's the right answer? Who knows? But I just hope it's a decision that's made correctly.

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StandOnIt said:
Nascar will never make any decision correctly. There is a fan base for that. ;)
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I know it's a sarcastic reply but still holds a lot of truth. If the fans don't like they wont show up and with no fans the sport doesn't exist

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wi_racefan said:
I know it's a sarcastic reply but still holds a lot of truth. If the fans don't like they wont show up and with no fans the sport doesn't exist

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no it wasn't, it is the truth. And of course they use the apocalyptic outcome.
 
Acs said:
I think it's because once you go hybrid, it's really hard to stop the teams from using it like PtP. Like, you have a battery that's constantly building up and storing energy, how are you gonna control deployment of it? Do you leave it up to the teams to spend piles of $$ building engine mapping and control software, or do you simplify things for everyone by using standard parts and a button. The former is how F1 went and it's a big drag on cost and parity while also taking things out of the drivers hands. PtP at least leaves things up to the driver and not the software engineer.
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Thanks. I know next to nothing about hybrids other than they recharge a big ol' honkin' battery for power instead of using or in addition to the engine. I never considered a race car might take advantage of that energy in any way different from a street car.
 
I can understand in an abstract way why "some" manufacturers want hybrid technology on the race cars, but honestly I don't see much of a connection to racing and hybrid systems, especially in a era where we are shedding horsepower, not adding it. There is a LONG list of passenger features that have no place or practical use on a race car, and I see this as just another one. What's next, stability control and collision avoidance? I am in general agreement with the idea of race cars that more closely align with their production car counterparts, but at some point you have to understand what race cars really are, and above else they are much more entertainment vehicles than they are engineering vehicles.
 
StandOnIt said:
Reading between the lines, it looks like some of the major players want a token Hybrid system, mostly in name only, and Toyota boy wants to make it all about Hybrids. I could be wrong but it sure looks that way. I'm totally against making it all about Hybrids and prefer something that is more like an add on. Push to pass doesn't bother me as much as who has the best Hybrid.
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Depends on the OEM but generally it’s easier to get funding to go racing if you can justify some sort of relevant technological connection. Ford are a group who have several hybrid models on the road and want to eventually incorporate into their racing programs hybrids that they can develop to some degree on their own. Meanwhile GM (Mark Kent) are on record as not caring for hybrids in racing as neither Chevy nor Cadillac have any hybrid models left and they’re investing in full electric instead.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Depends on the OEM but generally it’s easier to get funding to go racing if you can justify some sort of relevant technological connection. Ford are a group who have several hybrid models on the road and want to eventually incorporate into their racing programs hybrids that they can develop to some degree on their own. Meanwhile GM (Mark Kent) are on record as not caring for hybrids in racing as neither Chevy nor Cadillac have any hybrid models left and they’re investing in full electric instead.
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yeah I have heard similar. Ford wants a larger higher voltage system that what is being discussed. Nascar is proposing the same system for everybody.
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah I have heard similar. Ford wants a larger higher voltage system that what is being discussed. Nascar is proposing the same system for everybody.
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Yeah, Rushbrook said they’re looking at a minimum 100 HP output from the hybrid across the various series they’re looking at last year. I’d be surprised if NASCAR comes out with anything more than 50-60 HP initially.
 
A plus 50 or 60 HP shot down the back straight is a 10% (rounded) gain.
 
Formerjackman said:
I can understand in an abstract way why "some" manufacturers want hybrid technology on the race cars, but honestly I don't see much of a connection to racing and hybrid systems, especially in a era where we are shedding horsepower, not adding it. There is a LONG list of passenger features that have no place or practical use on a race car, and I see this as just another one. What's next, stability control and collision avoidance? I am in general agreement with the idea of race cars that more closely align with their production car counterparts, but at some point you have to understand what race cars really are, and above else they are much more entertainment vehicles than they are engineering vehicles.
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Formula E has progressed to the point where its 2020 entry list includes:
Audi
BMW
Jaguar
Mercedes Benz
Nissan
Porsche

Clearly, these manufacturers see value in spite of the fact that apart from the drive system, the cars have nothing to do with production vehicles.

But what the hell do they know, amirite?
 
If NASCAR is gonna do the PtP thing, just give them the bottle. Make those several shots beat up the engine, suspension, and drive train. Have it light up a flashing screen so fans will direct their attention to the "show".

Eco-warriors probably need to go watch soccer. (Tailgate with each other in the bamboo bicycle parking lot)

OTOH: you can race just about anything that a bored man can cobble together...
 
aunty dive said:
Formula E has progressed to the point where its 2020 entry list includes:
Audi
BMW
Jaguar
Mercedes Benz
Nissan
Porsche

Clearly, these manufacturers see value in spite of the fact that apart from the drive system, the cars have nothing to do with production vehicles.

But what the hell do they know, amirite?
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I don't have any hard factual information, but I've been told that Formula E is the racing equivalent of the WBA. It exists not because of a commercial demand for it, but because the entities involved want to be seen doing what seems the" right thing" to do, especially in ultra green Europe. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me that if NASCAR has a future, it will have to stand on its own as an entertainment platform. It doesn't have any rich uncle to prop it up. From what little I have seen of it, Formula E seems more like a technical demonstration than entertainment or a sport.
 
Here's some hard factual information ... NASCAR is "propped up" by 3 rich uncles. Formula E has 6 of those.

The ICE will be replaced during your lifetime. I won't see it because I pre-date the rotary telephone. Thank goodness I've always been an early adapter of advancing technology.

Good luck in the future.
 
aunty dive said:
Here's some hard factual information ... NASCAR is "propped up" by 3 rich uncles. Formula E has 6 of those.

The ICE will be replaced during your lifetime. I won't see it because I pre-date the rotary telephone. Thank goodness I've always been an early adapter of advancing technology.

Good luck in the future.
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NASCAR has survived before and likely could survive again without manufacturer involvement. If what I have been told is true, Formula E exists only as a PR vehicle for the manufacturers and the FIA. Maybe the internal combustion engine will be replaced in my lifetime, maybe it won't. I'm 52 and I figure I've got about 20 good years left. After that, I'll likely be dead or just won't give a damn. When I look at the electric vehicle movement, I see a lot more hype than substance. People seem to think they need one, but don't seem to know why. As for technology, I'm not against it, but prefer to let people waste their money on all the unproven stuff and then I buy the much cheaper more finished product. I resisted the urge on computers, big screen TV's and cell phones among other things and I'm a lot better off for it. I have a $200 40" LED TV in our bedroom that has a better picture than my buddy's $1000 plasma TV he bought about three years earlier. I waited on computer technology, but I'm on only my third one in the last 25 years.
 
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